Freewill?

[martymonster]

Surely we are here for more than firewood!

Yes!

We are here to learn what good is by learning about evil!

 

[Harlin]

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, you are there: if I make my bed in Sheol, behold, you are there.

Hello,

I understand that we cannot "flee" from the presence of God (one only has to read the story of Jonah), however, I see nothing in the scriptures that says God cannot withdraw His presence from us. Just because God is omnipresent, doesn't take away His ability to withdraw His presence from individuals if He desired to do so. How else could Jesus have proclaimed:

"My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"?,

God Bless,

Harlin

 

[Harlin]

Hello Pnema,

It is not eternal separation from God sis, the destruction is IN His presence not away from His presence.
Revelation 14:10
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
So according to what you believe the second death is eternal separation from God, then how do you explain the above scripture.

I believe that eternal separation comes when one continues in his sin, then when God comes the second time and reveals Himself, that sin is then consumed by the very presence of God, the individual that has clung to that sin and hasn't put it away is consumed by the fire with his sin. This is the second death spoken of in Revelation.

Quote:
What I do believe is that we reap what we sow, if we use the talents God has given us for evil, then that is what we will reap and if we use them for good, then that too is what we will reap. God isn't some tyrant sitting up there on His throne waiting to punish those who are disobedient. God is like a loving Father, chastising and teaching His children to fashion them after His own character and the character of His Son.


We actually agree up to this point sis.

Well, that is great.

And how can someone who does not have Christ in his life ever overcome his sins?

Well, there could be two reasons here:

The first is that simply they have chosen not to listen to the Holy Spirit speaking to their conscience and therefore only have their own strength to resist sin with, which is futile, or:

Secondly, they may not have heard of the saving grace of Jesus, God is merciful with them, He winks at their ignorance.

No one is saying that man does not have a will sis what we are saying is the will in man is not free. Thus the law of sin in our members overrides our will.
Now if the law of sin is so hard to overcome for those who have Christ working in their behalf do you not think it would be impossible for those that do not know Him?
And yet Christianity judges them to eternal torment or annihilation and say God is being just because they did not chose me, did not believe in me etc.

We are told that His sheep "know" His voice and they follow Him. Look at the parable in Matt 22, the Marriage Feast. God calls them all, all come, however, one is found without his wedding garment on, he hasn't put on Christ's righteousness, he has tried to come it with his own righteousness on, he wasn't prepared. He was "speechless" when questioned and cast out into "outer darkness", "for many are called, but few are chosen"

All are called, but not all are ready when inspected, their characters have not been transformed into the image of Christ, only those who have put on the wedding garment are "chosen", not everyone.

God is always fair, this doesn't equal everyone automatically being saved, regardless of how much God wants this to be the case. Why do you think Jesus wept over Jerusalem?...they would not come to Him, they rejected Him. God says, "what more could I have done for my vineyard"

This is true sis but we choose to respond only because God is working out His will from within you.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Now did we respond to do His good pleasure by our free will or was it God working His will in us to do His good pleasure?

I agree, but we are free to not listen as well, this is called grieving the Holy Spirit.

So who’s mind do you have? The mind of Christ or the carnal mind?
So if one only has a carnal mind (which is of the old man unregenerated nature) and is not subject to the laws of God neither indeed can be, would not God be unjust to annihilate or eternally torment such a person?

Well, I guess that depends on whether such a person has put their wedding garment (Christ's righteousness) on or not. If not, then their carnal mind cannot be subject to the law of God, and that is their choice made, not God's choice.

You have it backwards sis, first God draws us to Him then we seek the kingdom of God first.

I agree, but again, we are still free to "grieve the Holy Spirit" when God is "drawing" us to seek Him, or we can respond to that "drawing" and seek Him more.

when we have put on the mind of Christ we no longer have our own will, we are given the will of the saviour.
The carnal mind is not subject to the laws of God neither indeed can be.
Those who hold to the belief that it is by their own free will that they serve god are saying that their carnal mind is subject to the laws of God.

I agree fully with the first part of the statement. However the last part which I have highlighted I disagree completely, may I ask, how is it to the glory of God to have creatures that worship Him because He has "dragged" them to do so?, that is how Satan works, he compels those whom He cannot decieve into worshipping him, that is not the spirit of God, but the spirit of Satan.

God is glorified when His creatures voluntarily, willingly and lovingly serve Him because they are drawn and woed by His overwhelming love and great sacrifice for them. We only love God because He loved us first, not because this is what He willed (made happen)for us.

I agree we are not compelled against our will sis because I believe we are to be beheaded.
Our will, will simply disappear as we are swallowed up in Christ.

Personally, I do not believe that this is the meaning of the beheading that John was talking about, however, I do understand that we are to put on the mind of Christ and have our heart of stone made into a heart of flesh. To be "beheaded" seems to portray a violent means of having our mind changed. In any case, I do not believe a beheading would be neccessary but perhaps a labotomy.

If we are not compelled, then we are free to make the choice as far as logic tells me.

God Bless,

Harlin

 

[hairettic]

Yes!

We are here to learn what good is by learning about evil!

thanks for that insight, I had to chew on it awhile, but I get it now!

 

[Harlin]

Hello,

Cause and effect again sis, if God had not removed His protection Satan could never have caused Job any harm.
God by removing His protection ultimately caused Jobs destruction.
This destruction was for Jobs good, or do you believe God just wanted to torment the poor man like a cat with a mouse?
But Jobs is to deep a subject to get into right now.
Quote:

I believe it to be you who would have God tormenting Job. I understand that God did not interpose when Satan started his destructive work in Job's life, but God only allowed Satan to go so far.

Now how could this possibly have been for Job's good?, the Bible says Job was a "perfect and upright" man, one that "feared God and eschewed evil". The story of Job I believe, is in the scriptures for a very good reason, to distinguish between who the destroyer and the protector is. God was proving to Satan, that it was not only because God was protecting Job that he worshipped and feared Him, but that is was much deeper than that, God removed His protection so far, that He would be vindicated when Satan's accusations failed.

I don’t look at the judgment or Jesus coming the second time as a future event sis, for some this is true but for the overcomer Jesus has already come the second time and the judgment is already past. When He was born in us He came into the flesh a second time and by His presences within judgment is made to the removing of sin in each of us that has been born of God.

Although I agree that there is a judgement going on at the moment (Rev 11:1), I have to say that Biblically speaking the second return of a physical Christ is apparent to me. The parable of the 10 virgins gives heed to this message. There are only 5 virgins ready with oil (the Holy Spirit) in there vessels, when the bride groom (Christ) returns, the other 5 sleep while the bride groom tarries and are unprepared to go out and meet Him when He arrives, they have no oil in their vessels.

Now, if the Holy Spirit is the second return of Christ, according to you (I assume this is what you mean, I could be wrong here), and the oil in the vessels is the Holy Spirit, who is the Bride Groom in that parable?

Yes whom the SON sets free is free indeed, that does not mean we by our own will are set free but that we must rely solely of Jesus Christ.
Our will is simply destroyed because their can only be one head of the body and that head is Jesus Christ

I didn't mean that it was by "our will" that we were set free, or at least that is certainly not what I believe even if somehow that is what is taken from my statement. Christ came to set us free from the bondage of sin, He didn't do that so that we are then compelled to serve Him instead, He came to let the truth be known so that we can make an informed decision.

"Choose you this day whom ye will serve,..........as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" Josh 24:15

Because of Christ, we are free to choose whom we will serve, we are not compelled to serve God, that would go against His nature to make us do so.

God Bless,

Harlin

 

[ChasClean]

Harlin,

Because of Christ, we are free to choose whom we will serve, we are not compelled to serve God, that would go against His nature to make us do so.

What about the threats of what will happen to us if we do not freely choose him?

Eternal nonexistence is quite a bit of compulsion. That is not free to choose. That is a threat.



Why is it so hard to see that?

 

[Benoni]

For some reason God’s people have missed the mark here. Maturity is to me one of the great secret mysteries of the Bible. I have a sister who is a charismatic, spirit filled, born again christian and is totally afraid and defeated. She is very religious and churchy but is very immature spiritually. So many of God’s people are very, very mature in their church; they could be attending their religion for over 80 years; but are babies spiritually speaking,

God is not spelled “good”; He is God. So many of God’s people all they want is that mansion in the sky in glory land or be raptured before the great tribulation they are missing the most important part of God’s processing’s. The children of Israel could of taken nine days to cross the wilderness; but no God wanted them to be humbled, and reproved.

​

Deut 8:1-2​

1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.​

2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no. (KJV)​

​

When I look at the walk of Job as mentioned in earlier comments; I must express Job was the first overcomer. The Book of Revelations have two types of people in it; those who overcame and those who do not.

 

[Harlin]

Harlin,



What about the threats of what will happen to us if we do not freely choose him?

Eternal nonexistence is quite a bit of compulsion. That is not free to choose. That is a threat.



Why is it so hard to see that?

Hello,

So....if I say to my child, "sweetheart, if you jump off that high wall, you are going to break your leg, so listen to me and don't jump off" is that a threat?

I think you have a very distorted view of was is a "threat" and what is a heavenly Father warning His creation of calamities caused by their own doing.

God is simply telling the truth, He is not threatening anybody, He wants all to see the consequences of sin and to turn from it that they might live. Sadly, not all will turn.

"Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? Eze 18:23

"Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, everyone according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin" Ezk 18:30

"For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye" Ezk 18:32

According to scripture, iniquity,sin and ourselves is our ruin, not God.

God Bless,

Harlin

 

[Soul Searcher]

More like if you tell your child do not eat that cookie cause if you do I will lock you in the basement and beat your everyday for 65 years, or alternately I will kill you if you eat that cookie.

 

[Harlin]

For some reason God’s people have missed the mark here. Maturity is to me one of the great secret mysteries of the Bible. I have a sister who is a charismatic, spirit filled, born again christian and is totally afraid and defeated. She is very religious and churchy but is very immature spiritually. So many of God’s people are very, very mature in their church; they could be attending their religion for over 80 years; but are babies spiritually speaking,

God is not spelled “good”; He is God. So many of God’s people all they want is that mansion in the sky in glory land or be raptured before the great tribulation they are missing the most important part of God’s processing’s. The children of Israel could of taken nine days to cross the wilderness; but no God wanted them to be humbled, and reproved.

Deut 8:1-2
1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no. (KJV)
​

When I look at the walk of Job as mentioned in earlier comments; I must express Job was the first overcomer. The Book of Revelations have two types of people in it; those who overcame and those who do not.

Yes, Benoni,

Overcome what?...........sin, otherwise that is our demise. It doesn't matter how it is sugar coated, if we do not overcome sin, we will not see God.

We are told to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" Phil 2:12 And:

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge..." Prov 1:7

There is a healthy fear of God, and a corrupt fear of God, for perfect love driveth out fear.

If we live in fear of consequences, rather than feel repentant for our transgressions against God, then we portray a wrong representation of God's character. God would have us fearful, not of Him, but of being weighed in the balances and found wanting.

God Bless,

Harlin

 

[Harlin]

More like if you tell your child do not eat that cookie cause if you do I will lock you in the basement and beat your everyday for 65 years, or alternately I will kill you if you eat that cookie.

Hello,

That seems to be what you need me to believe, not what I actually believe, otherwise there is nothing to dispute.

God Bless,

Harlin

 

[Soul Searcher]

Hello,

That seems to be what you need me to believe, not what I actually believe, otherwise there is nothing to dispute.

God Bless,

Harlin

I do not need you to believe anything at all, don;t know why you would think so.

Yet if you do believe in judgment and punishment in the form of eternal punishment or in your case utter destruction I think you must also realize that it is not us doing this of our own freewill, No one chooses to be punished and after we are dead the only way that it can happen is if a 3rd party brings us from the dead and inflicts punishment on us, If this punishment is death it makes no sense to raise the dead in the first place. If it is puniahment then death that is just cruel and unusual punishment and if it is eternal suffering that is evil, none of which has anything to do with our own freewill as we would all choose to be forgiven and live happily ever after.

 

[Benoni]

The greatest opposition that Jesus ever faced was not the government in Rome, but the religious spirit that ruled in the hearts of his own people. Jesus himself said, “A man’s foes shall be those of his own household.”

The greatest opposition Joseph ever faced was not Potiphar or Pharaoh but escaping death by the hand of his own religious brothers.

The greatest foe of the Israelites in the wilderness was not the heathen nations they encountered on their journey through the wilderness, but those who were in their midst who were not circumcised in heart. It was this religious group that caused more Israelites to die in the wilderness than all of their enemies combined.

The greatest foe of the Anabaptists (a group of believers that rose up after the protestant reformation) was not the Church of Rome, but their Lutheran brethren who still practiced infantile baptism, who just thirty years before were God’s anointed instrument in the Earth. I’ll be bold enough to say that the greatest hindrance of the move of God today in the United States and in the hearts of those that profess to know God is the spirit of this World, whose greatest guise is RELIGION!

“After the strictest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee” (Acts 26:5).

From the above scripture Saul/Paul plainly states that he was a VERY religious man until one day he had a direct encounter with the Lord (Acts 9:3-5). From that moment on his “religion” began to fade away, and he began to embrace the new and living way. Later on he again declared, “But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish in order that I may gain Christ” (Phil 3:7-8; NAS). Paul’s own assessment of his past religious achievements was rubbish and something to be discarded. He gave up a religion that trusted in human attainments and the work of man to appease God. To the Pharisee salvation was a work of man that gave them a sense of self-satisfaction (Rom. 10:2-4). Sadly enough there are many religious minded believers today that are working for God, not with God. Jesus addresses this mindset when He says; “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness’ (Mt. 7:22-23; NAS). There are those in the body of Christ that use their God given gift outside of His will and base their relationship with God around their good works. That’s part of the religion of this world, not an intimate relationship with the Heavenly Father!

Unlike those above who thought that their identity was in their gifting, Paul had a new goal that cried out from the depths of his soul, “That I may gain Christ, and be found in Him!” The etymology of our English word “gain” comes from Old High German that has a literal meaning: “a pasture without fences.” When God starts to usher us into the fullness of Christ it truly is a pasture without fences. To change the metaphor, “there are waters to swim in” (Ezek. 47:5), or “skip about like calves let from the stall” (Mal. 4:2). I have found that many who profess the name of Christ do not worship Him in truth but are confined to worship a religious image of Christ that keeps them spiritually confined and fenced in. So we find the body of Christ worshipping the graven image of a Baptist Jesus, Pentecostal Jesus, Methodist Jesus, Church of Christ Jesus, a Lutheran Jesus, Presbyterian Jesus, and many non-denominational yet denominational Jesus’. It is easy to name that spirit and the kind of worship that surrounds it; it’s called IDOLATRY! We have changed the incorruptible image of God into a corruptible image made by the hands of men (Rom. 1:23; Ps. 106:19-20). Paul said it this way; “That each one of you is saying, ‘I am of Paul’, and ‘I of Apollos’, and ‘I of Cephas’, and ‘I of Christ’” (1Cor. 1:12). I pray that God will destroy all of the graven images we have erected in His name. Yes, mystery Babylon is going to be destroyed in a day by the Daystar Himself!

Our English word “religion” comes from the Latin “religio” which means “a taboo, a restraint” and bespeaks of a system exercised by the will of man designed to gain favor with God. The word broken down is “re” (return) +”ligare” (to bond with a restraint). Simply stated the word means… RETURN TO BONDAGE! Religion keeps us eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, living in a realm of “do this, don’t do that.” Religion in a scriptural nutshell is living in Romans chapter seven when we ought to be living in Romans chapter eight. It is an impossibility to do both. The Greek word for “religion” is threskeia, which means “outward ceremonial observance.” The religious sects of Jesus’ day asked Him when the Kingdom would come. He said, “The Kingdom of God does not come with observation” (Lk.17:21), it is not ushered in by some outward ceremonial observance.
I do not believe by scriptural definition that true Christianity is a religion. Christianity can become a religion as soon as we inject it with self-effort and self-will. When we turn it into some form of enterprise that becomes primarily self-serving for the interests of the flesh, it becomes a religion. For some, quote, Christian folk, if they were to really be truthful with themselves, the primary reason they go to Church is to FEEL GOOD! Jesus had these kinds of folk following Him. He spoke a message concerning them eating His flesh and drinking His blood which afterwards many quit following Him and not being intimidated by this he turned to the twelve and asked if they were going to leave also (Jn. 6:54).

In the side notes of the Companion bible, Bullinger points out in Genesis three that the sphere of Satan is always denying the Word of God. He comments that Satan is the god of this world’s religion, not of its crimes and immoralities. His sphere is the corruption of the truth rather than the degradation of the flesh.
I believe Christianity can be summed up in five words; “His bond-servants shall serve Him” (Rev. 22:3). Jesus said, “True worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth” (Jn. 4:23). Any form of worship that requires an atmosphere to stimulate an attitude or mood through ceremonial observances (MUST-meet in a certain place, have robed choirs, stain glassed windows, sing three ditties, offering, 15minute message) is not a spontaneous outflow from our spirit initiated by His! It is a religious expression generated for body-conscious people who require something to be seen or felt, or they believe that God did not show up for the meeting. Religion is man-centered, that by his own works he seeks to appease god. Religion always tries to entice man to “DO” rather than “BECOME.” If you need to exercise good works (ceremonies, programs, rituals, read Bible more, pray more, fellowship more) to feel close to God, you have become religious.

All you need to do is get alone with the shepherd of your heart, your first love, this is truly the higher assembling of ourselves together in the Lord which some have FORSAKEN (Heb. 10:25).

As Ray Prinzing has written so well concerning religion, “And thus…man is the subject; God is the object. Man is the doer; God is the one that it is done for. Man is the giver; God is the receiver. That my friend is OLD COVENANT, and THAT’S RELIGIOUS! So religion is man-seeking God, Christianity is GOD SEEKING MAN! Jesus said, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you” (John 15:16-17; NKJV). And thus it is in truth; God is the subject; man is the object. God is the doer; man is the one it’s done for. God is the giver; man is the receiver. THAT’S NEW COVENANT!” End Quote.

We’ve all been hatched out from underneath some Babylonian hen. I believe the spirit of Religion is being judged in the church today. It’s like the ship that Paul was on that was on its way to Rome, it’s destined for the rocks. Let’s cut all of the anchors loose (man made programs and sin conscious preaching) for it’s hopeless to fight against the winds of the Spirit, and let’s let her DRIVE (Acts 27)! It’s time the lively stones of the true house of God cease to offer up strange fire and come out and be separated to God, worshipping Him in spirit and in truth!

 

[elman]

=Pneuma3;30401735]How many times do I have to repeat what Paul said.

Why not try to understand what he said rather than just repeat it? Paul did not say God was to blame for our sin. Paul said we are responsible for our sin.

It is no longer I that sinneth but sin that dwelleth in me.

Whatever this means, sin is something that I do that kills my soul and for which the consequences is spiritual death.

Paul is saying that he is not responsible for his sin but points out to us that there is a law of sin in our members that is responsible for the sins we commit.

Where did this law come from? God? Is God therefore responsbilbe for the sin in your members? Are you your members? Who is our members? Is it possible you have allowed your members to be controled by the law of sin?

Paul refused to blame himself for missing the mark (sinning) brother because he knew all about the old man nature in all of us.

I think it was the Phillipians that Paul encourage to live up to what they had attained and to others he said put on the mind of Christ. Can we live up to what we attained? Can we put on the mind of Christ? If we do is it Christ forcing us to live up to what we attained or is it Christ forcing us to up on the mind of Christ? Does Paul contradict himself and if not what does he mean by telling us our faith is worthless if we do not love?

 

[elman]

Yes!

We are here to learn what good is by learning about evil!

We are here to do good and not do evil.

 

[elman]

Hello,

I understand that we cannot "flee" from the presence of God (one only has to read the story of Jonah), however, I see nothing in the scriptures that says God cannot withdraw His presence from us. Just because God is omnipresent, doesn't take away His ability to withdraw His presence from individuals if He desired to do so. How else could Jesus have proclaimed:

"My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"?,

God Bless,

Harlin

Well said.

 

[elman]

Harlin,



What about the threats of what will happen to us if we do not freely choose him?

Eternal nonexistence is quite a bit of compulsion. That is not free to choose. That is a threat.



Why is it so hard to see that?

Why is it so hard to see that the first gift of life was as mortals and it ends for the righteous and the unrighteous, no difference and no threat to either. Spiritual life, however is different. we kill our own soul with our own sin and if we do not love others-return to righteousness and remain in wickedness, we will die spirituallly and not live. If we do turn away from wickedness and to righteouseness we will live, because God will gift us with eternal spiritual life. Again no punishment, no threat. The consequences of being wicked is death, not life.

 

[martymonster]

We are here to do good and not do evil.

No, some of us are here to overcome evil, the rest are just here to live out their lives until they face the white throne of judgment that's when they will lean obedience!

 

[Pneuma3]

I believe that eternal separation comes when one continues in his sin, then when God comes the second time and reveals Himself, that sin is then consumed by the very presence of God, the individual that has clung to that sin and hasn't put it away is consumed by the fire with his sin. This is the second death spoken of in Revelation.

John the Baptists said Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
You are half right sis the sins of man are destroyed by His presence, but not the man.
Even the Christians who do not overcome have their part in the lake of fire Harlin.
So ask yourself if a Christian has part in the lake of fire, what purpose does the fire serve.
It can’t be total destruction of man or even Christians are destroyed, even though they believe and have accepted Him into their life.
Also if you believe the sins are consumed by the very presences of God as you stated above what need then of destroying the man?
Quote:
And how can someone who does not have Christ in his life ever overcome his sins?

Well, there could be two reasons here:

The first is that simply they have chosen not to listen to the Holy Spirit speaking to their conscience and therefore only have their own strength to resist sin with, which is futile, or:

That answer cannot be right, for without Christ in their life how can they listen to the leading of the Holy Spirit?

Secondly, they may not have heard of the saving grace of Jesus, God is merciful with them, He winks at their ignorance.

Well if God is merciful with them because of their ignorance (which I agree with) why eternally destroy them? Does that sound merciful to you?
Quote:
No one is saying that man does not have a will sis what we are saying is the will in man is not free. Thus the law of sin in our members overrides our will.
Now if the law of sin is so hard to overcome for those who have Christ working in their behalf do you not think it would be impossible for those that do not know Him?
And yet Christianity judges them to eternal torment or annihilation and say God is being just because they did not chose me, did not believe in me etc.

We are told that His sheep "know" His voice and they follow Him. Look at the parable in Matt 22, the Marriage Feast. God calls them all, all come, however, one is found without his wedding garment on, he hasn't put on Christ's righteousness, he has tried to come it with his own righteousness on, he wasn't prepared. He was "speechless" when questioned and cast out into "outer darkness", "for many are called, but few are chosen"

Yes His sheep know His voice and follow Him, but we know many do not know Him as of yet, so how do they overcome the law of sin?
And the marriage feast has nothing to do with eternal separation from God.
It is a parable of the rejections of Jesus Christ by the Jews and the grafting in of the gentile.

God is always fair, this doesn't equal everyone automatically being saved, regardless of how much God wants this to be the case. Why do you think Jesus wept over Jerusalem?...they would not come to Him, they rejected Him. God says, "what more could I have done for my vineyard"

So you at least believe God wants all men to be saved.
That is a good start.
Yet you still insist just because God wants them to be saved does not mean that all will be saved. This makes absolutely no sense to me, He is omnipotent and all things are possible to Him.
Isaiah 55:10-11
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
The WORD did come out from God, made in the likeness of flesh for the salvation of the whole world. And as the WORD was sent forth it will not return void but shall accomplish EVERYTHING that it was sent to do. Why do so many still believe His WORD came in vain? The salvation of the whole world was His purpose in coming so what can we say if He does not fulfill His purpose? There is only one conclusion, His WORD returned void.
Quote:
This is true sis but we choose to respond only because God is working out His will from within you.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Now did we respond to do His good pleasure by our free will or was it God working His will in us to do His good pleasure?

I agree, but we are free to not listen as well, this is called grieving the Holy Spirit.

I agree that there is a grieving of the Holy Spirit.
But there are two things to consider, who grieves the Holy Spirit.
First if one does not have Christ in His life to direct him how can he be said to grieve the Holy Spirit? He can only serve the master that he knows, which is the law of sin in his members. There has never been a choice yet given him.
The only ones who can grieve the Holy Spirit are the children of God who have Christ dwelling in them. It is only to them that a choice is given.
And as Paul states the grieving of the Holy Spirit is not done by our free will but because the flesh lusteth against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. The law of sin in our members is that which grieves the Holy Spirit. For it is a life other then the life of Christ.
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So who’s mind do you have? The mind of Christ or the carnal mind?
So if one only has a carnal mind (which is of the old man unregenerated nature) and is not subject to the laws of God neither indeed can be, would not God be unjust to annihilate or eternally torment such a person?

Well, I guess that depends on whether such a person has put their wedding garment (Christ's righteousness) on or not. If not, then their carnal mind cannot be subject to the law of God, and that is their choice made, not God's choice.

Again you have a misunderstanding of the wedding taking place, but for the sake of argument let’s say you are correct in your understanding.
The one who did not have on the wedding garment still came to the wedding.
Why? Must have been because he thought he had a free will, thinking because of that will he would just show up. Did not put on the mind of Christ but by his own will decided he was fit to attend.
What happened to him?
Against his will he was thrown out of the wedding.
Our will does not give us right to enter into the kingdom of heaven, will all we want, unless we have the mind of Christ we are unfit to enter in.


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You have it backwards sis, first God draws us to Him then we seek the kingdom of God first.

I agree, but again, we are still free to "grieve the Holy Spirit" when God is "drawing" us to seek Him, or we can respond to that "drawing" and seek Him more.

That understanding is not according to scripture.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
It is not us that grieve the Holy Spirit it is the old man nature with his carnal mind that does.

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when we have put on the mind of Christ we no longer have our own will, we are given the will of the saviour.
The carnal mind is not subject to the laws of God neither indeed can be.
Those who hold to the belief that it is by their own free will that they serve god are saying that their carnal mind is subject to the laws of God.

I agree fully with the first part of the statement. However the last part which I have highlighted I disagree completely, may I ask, how is it to the glory of God to have creatures that worship Him because He has "dragged" them to do so? , that is how Satan works, he compels those whom He cannot decieve into worshipping him, that is not the spirit of God, but the spirit of Satan.

Well the scriptures state if I be lifted up I will draw/drag all men unto me.
Do you agree with that scripture?
If yes then why apply it to the workings of Satan.

God is glorified when His creatures voluntarily, willingly and lovingly serve Him because they are drawn and woed by His overwhelming love and great sacrifice for them. We only love God because He loved us first, not because this is what He willed (made happen)for us.

The old creature will never voluntarily, willingly and lovingly serves Him, it is against its own nature, it wants instead to serve itself.
It is only the new creature in Christ Jesus that who voluntarily, willingly and lovingly serves Him and that because He has put on the mind of Christ.
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I agree we are not compelled against our will sis because I believe we are to be beheaded.
Our will, will simply disappear as we are swallowed up in Christ.

Personally, I do not believe that this is the meaning of the beheading that John was talking about, however, I do understand that we are to put on the mind of Christ and have our heart of stone made into a heart of flesh. To be "beheaded" seems to portray a violent means of having our mind changed. In any case, I do not believe a beheading would be neccessary but perhaps a labotomy.

While if we are not beheaded then we are deformed for there can only be one head of the body and the head of the body is Christ.

 

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No, some of us are here to overcome evil, the rest are just here to live out their lives until they face the white throne of judgment that's when they will lean obedience!

Be not overcome with evil but overcome evil with good. Matt 25:31 is the last judgment. It is the white throne judgment and if you have not loved when you get there you do not get life with God. We learn obedience by being obedient.