God can do anything!
that is the worst cop out for not being able to understand the scriptures of all!
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Freewill?
- Thread starter hairettic
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that is the worst cop out for not being able to understand the scriptures of all!
Harlin and Elman!
so what your essentially saying is that God, the seed sower and the owner of the vineyard, is really hopeless at growing a crop, infact nowhere as good as any earthly farmer, an thus looses about 90% of His harvest!
If the saved be the first fruits, whence the second fruits?
Now of corse you are both going to say that that is not what you said, but it doesn't matter what the exact wording is that you use, it is what you are saying.
in short you are saying that God's arm is not mighty to save!
you both need to think about the implications of what your saying before you say it!
so what your essentially saying is that God, the seed sower and the owner of the vineyard, is really hopeless at growing a crop, infact nowhere as good as any earthly farmer, an thus looses about 90% of His harvest!
If the saved be the first fruits, whence the second fruits?
Now of corse you are both going to say that that is not what you said, but it doesn't matter what the exact wording is that you use, it is what you are saying.
in short you are saying that God's arm is not mighty to save!
you both need to think about the implications of what your saying before you say it!
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Neither you nor I understand the scriptures perfectly. Are you arguing some kind of limit on the power of God?
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God will do what God wants to do. You and I are guessing at what He will do. We are both going to make many mistakes in the guessing game. What I am saying is God wanted to have beings to love that could respond to His love and He is going to be and already is successful in doing that. What you seem to be saying is that it does not matter if we love or do not love, is that what you are saying?
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And God destroys that old man of sin in all of us right without our being involved in that destruction right? How do we sin with no free will? Is sin the wrong choice or something else?
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God does not destroy us. We kill our own soul with our own sin. We are the destroyers. God gives us life and if we love and turn to Him He gives us live eternal. If we do not turn to HIm, If we continue to be unloving we remain spiritually destroyed. Still not done by God.
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God has stated what his desire is, and He will do it regardless of you think that desire is, and it is you who is place limits on God's power not I!
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What limits do I place on the power of God? Are you now saying God is able to create us with free will? or unable?
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Jesus said the law of God was summed up in loving your neighbor. Jesus said if you love others you have loved me. Matt 25:31 and following. Paul said faith with out love is worthless,(1 Cor 13) John said we are not children of God if we do not love.(First John)
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If I give my child a bottle of poison and say that He can drink it if He likes, but it's his own fault if he dies,
would that win Me Father of the year?
Like I said before, think about the implications of what your saying before you say it!
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O I understand Love and believe we are to love, but that is a jump from your statement saying God created us for that purpose. I think that is an assumption of sorts. Can we really begin to imagine why were create. I have heard people compare us to angels. and say we have the choice to worship and angels do not. But Lucifer obviously chose not! Back to the question. Can we really understand why we were created?
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I have thought about it. God is loving and did not give us a bottle of poison. He did give us the ability to love. That means He also gave us the ability to not love. That does make Him Father of the year.
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Soul Searcher
The kingdom is within
Will he also take us by the hand and show us how to use that ability to love and use it in the proper way?
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Not if we don't try. I agree we cannot be sure of anything and yes it is an assumption to say God created us to be loving. It is an assumption to say God exists and it is an assumption to say God is loving. It is also an assumption to say God does not exist and it is an assumption to say we exist for no reason. None of these things can we know for sure.
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Soul Searcher
The kingdom is within
But many do not understand, what of those? What of those who die not knowing what it truly means to love or be loved? Do they simply get snuffed out or will God take them by the hand and show them the marvels of love?
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God is loving. You can trust Him. No body gets snuffed out by God. We are all created as mortals which means we die physically. That is not being snuffed out by God. It is a description of our first gift of life from God.
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Soul Searcher
The kingdom is within
Let me reword it then.. do those who do not understand, have not experienced what it means to love and/or be loved. Will they also be raised and learn these things or are they just outta luck?
I agree that God is loving and that we can trust him. But I think the boundries placed on this love by various doctorines hides the love of God from many.
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