Freemasons?

[Woodsy]

Tribe, you're a guy in debate mode; you are being too aggressive to post with a shy woman, whether you realize it or not, okay?

Sorry - I have a few "hot button" topics and this is one.
I didn't want this debate, however, to affect what had been, up until now, a peaceful relationship between us regardless of our differences.
My ex-wife could confirm that I rarely drop a debate just to smooth things over. But then again, I wasn't a Christian when she and I were married. And I do try to be better these days.
Peace out, yo?

 

[billmcelligott]

Olive branch not accepted, I guess.

Hey Tribe, you were a bit quick with the reverse withdrawal of the olive branch.

You extended a Branch at 4.09

it seemed to be withdrawn at 4.10

Even I don't type that fast.

God tactic though throw the other guy off balance.

But , should we decide is it better to be pleasant or win the point.

 

[Lbiagm]

Freemasonry is a Fraternal Organization and that's it no religion to deal with cept that one question.

 

[Plan 9]

Hey Tribe, you were a bit quick with the reverse withdrawal of the olive branch.

You extended a Branch at 4.09

it seemed to be withdrawn at 4.10

Even I don't type that fast.

God tactic though throw the other guy off balance.

But , should we decide is it better to be pleasant or win the point.

Yeah, I was still working on another post at the time; I'm a very slow typer and my comp and ISP are equally slow. If Tribe has DSL, a minute may seem like a long time, though.

I think that the problem is that I'm attempting to defend my Christian friends and relatives, rather than posting to wins points in a debate. Most of the members posting here don't seem to see it as personal, though.

It far was more peaceful at my church and my lodge.

 

[billmcelligott]

but then you would deprive these good people of light and instruction.

Or is that over the top.

Yes its over the top. Nevermind.

 

[Plan 9]

but then you would deprive these good people of light and instruction.

Or is that over the top.

Yes its over the top. Nevermind.

I don't anyone feels any too enlightened or instructed by anything I post.

 

[MariaRegina]

but then you would deprive these good people of light and instruction.

Or is that over the top.

Yes its over the top. Nevermind.

Dear Bill:

If you really desired to attain the rewards of paradise, would you jeopardize that opportunity? Are you really striving to do God's will and not your own?

Do you value the Masonic Order above God? Has Masonry become your idol?

You have a choice.

I choose to follow Christ, my Lord and God, and to be obedient to His Church.
Obedience is not always easy. It requires us to forget ourselves, pick up our cross and follow Jesus Christ every day of our lives.

 

[Plan 9]

Dear Bill:

If you really desired to attain the rewards of paradise, would you jeopardize that opportunity? Are you really striving to do God's will and not your own?

Do you value the Masonic Order above God? Has Masonry become your idol?

You have a choice.

I choose to follow Christ, my Lord and God, and to be obedient to His Church.
Obedience is not always easy. It requires us to forget ourselves, pick up our cross and follow Jesus Christ every day of our lives.

You see, Bill? You're guilty until you prove yourself innocent, which can't be done.

Atta girl, chanter! Keep showing that Christian charity.

 

[billmcelligott]

Dear Bill:

If you really desired to attain the rewards of paradise, would you jeopardize that opportunity? Are you really striving to do God's will and not your own?
Gods big enough to look after himself, I just tag along behind.
Do you value the Masonic Order above God? Has Masonry become your idol?
No, never said anything like that. You can love fishing, you dont give up God to go fishing.

You have a choice. No I dont. The lord is ruler of all.

I choose to follow Christ, my Lord and God, and to be obedient to His Church.
Obedience is not always easy. It requires us to forget ourselves, pick up our cross and follow Jesus Christ every day of our lives.

Well you got me there, I am not a devout Christian, I try but never seem quite good enough.

You see ya all start off with the assumption that I am in the wrong. I see nothing evil in Freemasonry, I find no harm in the bringing together of many peoples. Someone show me where the devil hides in Masonry and I will spit in his eye.

Through masonry , I have friends in America, Spain , France, Canada, Austalia, Nigeria and of course UK. You have to show me where making friends and helping people less fortunate is wrong. I can not see it.

 

[nyj]

Catholics cannot be associated with Freemasonry.

Case closed.

 

[Woodsy]

Hey Tribe, you were a bit quick with the reverse withdrawal of the olive branch.

You extended a Branch at 4.09

it seemed to be withdrawn at 4.10

Even I don't type that fast.

God tactic though throw the other guy off balance.

But , should we decide is it better to be pleasant or win the point.

It can look that way when you're ignorant of the situation, eh, Bill?
I typed up the conciliatory post and when I posted it, I saw the posts that Plan 9 had submitted while I was typing the conciliatory post. Understandably, those posts made me think that her mood was not one that was receptive to my conciliatory gesture. Those posts made me regret offering the branch.
The time stamps on the posts don't tell the whole story. But thanks for jumping down my throat and accusing me of using a cheap trick to "throw the other guy [sic] off balance."
Plan 9 and I made a sort of peace, but thanks for sowing discord after the matter was smoothed.

 

[Woodsy]

but then you would deprive these good people of light and instruction.

 

[Plan 9]

So you think I have no light or instruction to offer you whatsoever? Thanks, Brother.

 

[geocajun]

Modern science was very much founded by Christians who were excited by the opportunity to learn more about God through his creation, nature. I don't think Bill is dodging in the least.

This isn't a science versus religion type discussion. they are completely seperate in purpose.
Science answers the questions What and How
and Religion answers the question Why.

Freemasonry teachings one to observe the what and how and learn that 'why' 'is completely subjective.

 

[Plan 9]

It can look that way when you're ignorant of the situation, eh, Bill?
I typed up the conciliatory post and when I posted it, I saw the posts that Plan 9 had submitted while I was typing the conciliatory post. Understandably, those posts made me think that her mood was not one that was receptive to my conciliatory gesture. Those posts made me regret offering the branch.
The time stamps on the posts don't tell the whole story. But thanks for jumping down my throat and accusing me of using a cheap trick to "throw the other guy [sic] off balance."
Plan 9 and I made a sort of peace, but thanks for sowing discord after the matter was smoothed.

Yes, I did think that; as a matter of fact, I thought we had made real peace,,,until I came here today and saw your new posts, Tribe.

 

[Plan 9]

This isn't a science versus religion type discussion. they are completely seperate in purpose.
Science answers the questions What and How
and Religion answers the question Why.

Freemasonry teachings one to observe the what and how and learn that 'why' 'is completely subjective.

Geocajun, I've looked at one of your links and read several of your posts and you already don't think that Protestants are Christians and Masons are Protestants, but thank you for your condescending post.

 

[geocajun]

In Masonry you will find God fearing men.

One finds many men in masonry, and not all are God fearing.

It is you who are trying to force the acceptance that Masonry is a religion when you know, or at least should know that the discussion of religion is not acceptable within the Lodge.

I am not alone in this, I have many masons of authority who agree that masony is inherently religious. That point is inescapable. Simply because one cannot talk about their personal religion in the lodge, does not change the fact that masonry is in itself teaching religion.

Is Masonry a religion. Answer me this question please. How do you have a religious organization, in which non of its members accept that they are taking part in a service of religion.

well, except manly hall and his clan, and albert pike, etc... but who are they right?

Or that they are offered salvation through this organization. Or that, they do not wish to turn there backs on there accepted faith or their God.

They do hope to get the celestial lodge above, and it is very much directly implied to acheive this by good works in the craft of freemasonry.

How can you be in a religous faith by default. The basic meaning of the term faith , by its own definition is your faith in your God. It can not be imposed. You either have fiath or you do not.

its not faith that is at question, its revelation of God to man.

So one day you love Jesus and worship him with all your heart, you join a Masonic Lodge and the next day your worshiping Satan. Lets get real here, it just does not happen.

your putting words in my mouth - I never mentioned any sort of satan worship, or any change of intent by any freemason.
Your playing dirty, if you want to continue to discuss this intellegenty we can do so, but be respectful.

Lets take your own situation geo, you say you were a 33rd degree Mason

I was a 32nd, not 33rd. I did not say that either, you are again putting words in my mouth.

did you have to swear an oath to Satan.

nope.

did you forsake Jesus when you were a Mason.

forsake? no.

Have you ever denied Jesus for the sake of Freemasonry. Did you take your oath as a Mason and your faith seriously.

I was not allowed to talk about Jesus, and his revelation to us when I was fellowishipping with my masonic brothers. I could talk about God of course, just so long as I was not trying to use any terms about how He is revealved to us. (like to say "Jesus is God" would break the rules of fellowship.)

 

[Miss Shelby]

I am closing this thread. This isn't a debate forum, the Church does not support freemasonry, and it has devolved into bicker and flame fest.

Michelle

 

[geocajun]

Geocajun, I've looked at one of your links and read several of your posts and you already don't think that Protestants are Christians and Masons are Protestants, but thank you for your condescending post.

this sounds like a desperate personal attack to me. Which means your fresh out of intellegent things to say.. that did not take long, now did it?

You are misrepreseting me when you say what you said above.