Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity?

[Rev Wayne]

Anyone sworn to secrecy with a rope around their neck & blindfold

Try cable tow and hoodwink.

with a blade to the chest

I actually don't know what it was, and neither do you, that's for sure. What I CAN say for sure is, it certainly wasn't a "blade," it was far too blunt for that. I was left thinking, "This is a 'sharp' instrument?" And it was so lightly pressed I hardly would have noticed it if I hadn't been anticipating it.

In short, this was nowhere near the threatenting or intimidating experience you make it out to be.
no matter what secret they will learn, they will protect it, no matter what.

There are no secrets. Anything considered secret in Freemasonry has now been revealed, thanks to those who in reneging on their membership have also reneged on that which they promised before God.

The oath of mutual protection of other freemasons also serves freemasonry above conscience,

Never took it. At least not the one you're talking about, which is in Scottish Rite. So go find some Scottish Rite guy and tell him about it.

 

[JamesJD]

Try cable tow and hoodwink.

I actually don't know what it was, and neither do you, that's for sure. What I CAN say for sure is, it certainly wasn't a "blade," it was far too blunt for that. I was left thinking, "This is a 'sharp' instrument?" And it was so lightly pressed I hardly would have noticed it if I hadn't been anticipating it.


There are no secrets. Anything considered secret in Freemasonry has now been revealed, thanks to those who in reneging on their membership have also reneged on that which they promised before God.


Never took it. At least not the one you're talking about, which is in Scottish Rite. So go find some Scottish Rite guy and tell him about it.

"THOU SHALT NOT FORSWEAR THYSELF, but shall perform unto the Lord thine OATHS"-Matthew 5:33.
You still deny any relationship between Scottish Rite and Blue Lodge? Why does Scottish Rite only accept mastermason rank or higher from ANY lodge, including Blue Lodge? Do you say that Scottish Rite is incompatable with Blue Lodge? NO, you don't. You're nitpickingly distancing Blue Lodge from all other branches of freemasonry, as if they're no relation whatsoever. I don't buy that.

 

[Rev Wayne]

"THOU SHALT NOT FORSWEAR THYSELF, but shall perform unto the Lord thine OATHS"-Matthew 5:33.

MEANING, in your shortened version: "Do not perjure yourself, but perform your oaths."

GOOD!! Then if Jesus says, "do not perjure yourself, but perform your oaths," where's the problem?

You still deny any relationship between Scottish Rite and Blue Lodge?

No, I deny any PERSONAL relationship with Scottish Rite. I am only a Master Mason, which is third degree, and is no part of Scottish Rite. So anytime you make statements about what is found in Scottish Rite, you are making no statement about anything connected with my experience as a Mason.

Why does Scottish Rite only accept mastermason rank or higher from ANY lodge, including Blue Lodge?

That's a totally irrelevant question in regard to what Scottish Rite has to do with me as a Master Mason. So what if they DO accept only MM rank or higher? That still does not make me a Scottish Rite Mason, nor does it make anything in Scottish Rite Masonry pertain to me.

Do you say that Scottish Rite is incompatable with Blue Lodge?

You can drop your spin job and your spin questions as well. Scottish Rite comprises degrees 4 through 33. I am only 3rd degree, none of those degrees pertain to me. In fact, thsoe are an American creation, and none of what it contains would apply to Masons in quite a number of lodges around the world.

That's why I keep trying to tell you, if you want to make accusations against "Masonry," fine. But the only way you can make the accusations apply across the board to ALL Masons is to raise accusations that apply to all. The most basic common denominator that applies is to address issues related to Blue Lodge, that is, the first three degrees, which are required for anyone taking any of the other degrees. The first three are also required before anyone may be fully considered a Mason. But after the first three degrees, none of the rest is required at all, so any accusations made on the basis of the other degrees is an accusation founded on optional degrees anyway.

That flies right in the face of your whole purpose, which is to make accusations about what Masonry REQUIRES. If you keep talking about things found in degrees that are completely optional, and are not opted into by the majority of Masons, then you are totally defeating your whole purpose for raising the accusations in the first place.

It's a sticky little Catch-22 you've got yourself into with your insistence on accusing that which is only optional, but don't expect your spin doctor attempt to work. There's simply no way you can turn it around and pin the blame for your problems on me. I have been consistent on this from the start, in both the threads where you keep trying to accuse me of what Scottish Rite does, in telling you it simply does not apply.

You're nitpickingly distancing Blue Lodge from all other branches of freemasonry, as if they're no relation whatsoever. I don't buy that.

I'm not selling anything, nor am I nitpicking. You keep bringing up things that appear in oaths I have never taken.

If this were a court of law, and you accuse me of things in degrees 4 to 33, and I prove I have only progressed through the first 3, your case would be immediately tossed off the docket.

Likewise, the same thing applies to the majority of Masons.

So either adjust your claims and make Scottish Rite and Scottish Rite Masons your target with Scottish Rite materials, or quit beating the horse, it died long ago. You cannot make the content of other rites apply to Masons who have only progressed to MM. It's as simple as that.

Continue this path and you delve deeper and deeper into irrelevancy.

 

[JamesJD]

MEANING, in your shortened version: "Do not perjure yourself, but perform your oaths."

GOOD!! Then if Jesus says, "do not perjure yourself, but perform your oaths," where's the problem?


No, I deny any PERSONAL relationship with Scottish Rite. I am only a Master Mason, which is third degree
You can drop your spin job and your spin questions as well. Scottish Rite comprises degrees 4 through 33. I am only 3rd degree, none of those degrees pertain to me.

That's why I keep trying to tell you, if you want to make accusations against "Masonry," fine. But the only way you can make the accusations apply across the board to ALL Masons is to raise accusations that apply to all. The most basic common denominator that applies is to address issues related to Blue Lodge, that is, the first three degrees, which are required for anyone taking any of the other degrees. The first three are also required before anyone may be fully considered a Mason. But after the first three degrees, none of the rest is required at all, so any accusations made on the basis of the other degrees is an accusation founded on optional degrees anyway.

That flies right in the face of your whole purpose, which is to make accusations about what Masonry REQUIRES. If you keep talking about things found in degrees that are completely optional, and are not opted into by the majority of Masons, then you are totally defeating your whole purpose for raising the accusations in the first place.

It's a sticky little Catch-22 you've got yourself into with your insistence on accusing that which is only optional, but don't expect your spin doctor attempt to work. There's simply no way you can turn it around and pin the blame for your problems on me. I have been consistent on this from the start, in both the threads where you keep trying to accuse me of what Scottish Rite does, in telling you it simply does not apply.

I'm not selling anything, nor am I nitpicking. You keep bringing up things that appear in oaths I have never taken

If this were a court of law, and you accuse me of things in degrees 4 to 33, and I prove I have only progressed through the first 3, your case would be immediately tossed off the docket.

So either adjust your claims and make Scottish Rite and Scottish Rite Masons your target with Scottish Rite materials, or quit beating the horse, it died long ago. You cannot make the content of other rites apply to Masons who have only progressed to MM. It's as simple as that.

1: the word "FORESWEAR" means in advance, NOT don't break an oath. It speaks for itself, but you IGNORE what the Lord says, to suit freemasonry. "But I say unto you, SWEAR NOT AT ALL"-Matt 5:34. What part of that don't you comprehend? You refuse to acknowledge the word of the Lord you blaspheme, saying he told you to become a freemason.
2: you've been disavowing Scottish Rite as if it's not official freemasonry either, like all the freemason founded orgs like the mafia P2 lodge. But this thread is about freemasonry by the title, not only low degree Blue Lodge, which means you don't even know the initiation ritual into 33rd°, much less be able to deny there are secrets. ALL freemasonry pertains, and all offshoot secret societies, and ex-official lodges that still operate & give 33rd° titles.
I'm sure the readers see your ways are not of the Lords', as you claim the Lord told you directly to join freemasonry. Blue Lodge IS related to all other freemasonry orgs, which are collectively related to ILLuminati secret societies and Jesuit secret societies. Google Black Pope Klovenach, jesuit general, reputed head of freemasonry, & tell me again that the Knights of Malta secret society has no relation to freemasonry, EXCEPT that it's another jesuit secret society, like freemasonry. Jesuits ran the Inquisition that torture killed millions of Christians; Bogomils & Cathars, etc, while seizing scriptures still hidden from the stolen sheep.
Rothschild & Rockefeller ILLuminati secret societies mirror freemasonry...no relation, huh? That's not the what the Adam Weishaupt heralded ILLuminati takeover of freemasonry in the 1700s says.

 

[Rev Wayne]

the word "FORESWEAR" means in advance,

No, it does not, and there is the source of your serious error on the matter. The word is "FORswear," not "FOREswear." It means to renege on the oath once it has been taken. It really must be a point of conviction for a number of ex-Masons every time they see it, realizing what they did was in direct disobedience to what Jesus says we must do.

As for anything else you have to say on this or any other matter, I simply refer you to my most recent reply to you on another thread.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1601295&page=12

 

[JamesJD]

"And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits. The he said unto me, This is the curse that goeth over the whole earth: for everyone that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and EVERYONE THAT SWEARETH shall be cut off as on that side according to it"-Zechariah 5:2-3.

"But I say unto you,SWEAR NOT AT ALL"- Christ, Matthew 5:34.

I'd say that especially applies to secret society oaths of secrecy and mutual protection of members, regardless what they're guilty of.
Prominent freemason Mazzini founded the Italian mafia, which is the P2 lodge, no longer officialy recognized by Grand Lodge, but functioning.
Former top US freemason Pike had high rank in the KKK, and was charged with crimes against civilians and treason. I'll pass on the masonic oaths of secrecy and mutual protection.

 

[Rev Wayne]

EVERYONE THAT SWEARETH

Gee, what happened to your "FORE-swearing," and your claim that it means swearing "beforehand?"

 

[JamesJD]

Gee, what happened to your "FORE-swearing," and your claim that it means swearing "beforehand?"

Why does the freemason preacher IGNORE what the Bible says in Zechariah 5:2-3? "EVERYONE THAT SWEARETH SHALL BE CUT OFF".

You serve freemasonry above the Bible...again. "BUT I say unto you, SWEAR NOT AT ALL"-Matthew 5:34. That seems clear enough to me. No wonder the freemasons shall be cut off!

All the freemason run churches together cannot over-rule the Lord, though they try; bound by oaths of secrecy and mutual protection of ALL freemasons.

 

[George the 3rd]

No wonder the freemasons shall be cut off!

Don't worry, I voluntarily removed myself from attitudes such as this!

 

[Rev Wayne]

Why does the freemason preacher IGNORE what the Bible says in Zechariah 5:2-3? "EVERYONE THAT SWEARETH SHALL BE CUT OFF".

The real question is, why do you ignore the rest of the context, which clearly indicates it means FALSE swearing? It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see who's doing the ignoring here, when all you manage to quote from "Zechariah 5:2-3" are 7 words--and even more so when you consider that it is verse FOUR that reveals it is FALSE swearing, and it has been omitted from your consideration.

 

[JamesJD]

The real question is, why do you ignore the rest of the context, which clearly indicates it means FALSE swearing? It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see who's doing the ignoring here, when all you manage to quote from "Zechariah 5:2-3" are 7 words--and even more so when you consider that it is verse FOUR that reveals it is FALSE swearing, and it has been omitted from your consideration.

What a hoot! Freemason 3rd° Wayne says it's OK with the Lord to swear secrecy for, and mutual protection of, and loyalty to a questionable membershp with questionable rulership and questionable agenda, so long as you don't betray them for being eviler than you thought before. Masonic oaths should be broken, like mafia oaths, and Skull & Bones Order of Death oaths, and Yakuza oaths; and I think the Lord would judge rightly on it.

"Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? Or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?"-Psalm 94:16 KJV or 93 other versions. >>>>>> "Against powers, against the RULERS of the darkness of this world, and against spiritual wickedness in high places"-Ephesians 6:12.

The rulers, (at least some of them surely freemasons the rest ILLuminati or jesuit secret societies), will be arrested for judgement by the Lord in Isaiah 24:21-22. "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through KNGS in the day of his wrath/he shall wound the heads over many countries"-Psalm 110:5-6 KJV or 109 other versions. Freemasons won't make the one third cut of Rev 9:15, Matt 13:49-50, and Zechariah 5:2-3.

Quit acting like it's OK to join evil and take oaths to it.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Quit acting like it's OK to join evil and take oaths to it.

Maybe you should quit acting like it's okay to make false accusations of an organization BEING evil, especially when the information used as "evidence" comes from websites that accuse Masons of being in league with alien baby-eaters. What a hoot!

 

[JamesJD]

Maybe you should quit acting like it's okay to make false accusations of an organization BEING evil, especially when the information used as "evidence" comes from websites that accuse Masons of being in league with alien baby-eaters. What a hoot!

"FindallpostsbyJamesJD" will show that I've denounced the evidenceless propaganda about shape-shifting reptilians, which is designed to spread anti-alien anti-angel propaganda while making serious UFO investigators look like kooks. I didn't link to that, you searched ONE site to find that interview. You act like I automatically endorse every view of every site I post from.

The masonic connections to Hells Angels, and Mazzini mafia P2 lodge, & Captain Morgan, and Crowley Ordo Templi Orientis, and LaVey and Pike and Bohemian Grove politicians is enough to raise questions about freemasonry in general, besides the secrecy factor, which obstructs investigations like mine. The membership, rulership and agenda are questionable.

ALL the major politicians can be connected to either freemasonry, or ILLuminati secret societies, or Jesuit secret societies. Again I ask; does freemasonry OFFICIALLY deny being headed by jesuit general Klovenbach? Who DOES head freemasonry then?

 

[Rev Wayne]

"FindallpostsbyJamesJD" will show that I've denounced the evidenceless propaganda about shape-shifting reptilians, which is designed to spread anti-alien anti-angel propaganda while making serious UFO investigators look like kooks. I didn't link to that, you searched ONE site to find that interview. You act like I automatically endorse every view of every site I post from.

BINGO!! There may be hope for you yet.

Then you admit that it's not a valid argument to suggest that because someone believes one thing a group says or does, that they endorse the whole?

How novel. But it sure goes against the grain of how your arguments have been conducted concerning Freemasons. I keep telling you the accusations you raise have nothing to do with the Freemasonry I joined, and you keep going into conniption fits of denial every time.

Trying to butter your bread on both sides only makes things all slimy. Either drop all the false accusations about quasi-Masonic bodies and pseudo-Masons that have nothing to do with Freemasonry, or at least man up and take it when the accusations come back at you with the same flawed principles behind them. Capiche?

The masonic connections to Hells Angels, and Mazzini mafia P2 lodge, & Captain Morgan, and Crowley Ordo Templi Orientis, and LaVey and Pike and Bohemian Grove politicians is enough to raise questions about freemasonry in general

Nope, because "Freemasonry in general" rejects all of these, one way or the other. You've not shown a single thing with any accusation concerning any one of these, except your ignorance of what constitutes "Freemasonry."

The membership, rulership and agenda are questionable.

As is their legitimacy as bodies of Freemasonry. Your argument is like pointing to groups like Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Christian Scientists, or Oneness Pentecostals, and trying to demand that readers accept your insistent claims that they all represent Orthodox or evangelical Christianity. In either case, as far as opinions go, you are entitled to whatever you wish to believe. But as far as definitions go, your claims will be forever false, because you have no right to impose your own definitions of Freemasonry upon Masons.

Pretty simple, really.

 

[John1and1]

Rev Wayne,
Isnt it true that Billy Graham is a freemason?

 

[JamesJD]

What I never told these freemasons is that I had a long career as an outlaw before getting seriously religious, because something supernatural kept saving my life.
I smuggled marijuana interstate for Hells Angels 2 years, and they all consider themselves freemasons, not outcast freemasons either.
When I smuggled for them I was buying from the Italian mafia in Seattle, which is the P2 Lodge, and they consider themselves all freemasons in good standing also. A mafia lawyer handled me awhile, and invited me to join, because I've witnessed too many NSA coverups of evidence for freemasons, including a top crime boss of the mafia here.

Ex ONI officer William Cooper exposed masonic control of DIA/CIA/NSA/ONI, and was gunned down by gov on his porch. I suggest his videos and books. The DIA emblem logo is obviously anti-Christian, with an upside down cross at the south pole, and at the north, a golden bowl with the proverbial "forbidden apple" in it, a reward for being opposite Christianity. http://www.DIA.gov

Nothing these freemasons say will unlearn me about the many freemason criminals I've known personally, not to mention "Oddfellows" of Rosicrucians, and other secret society members.

I was told that for my initiation into instant 33rd° P2 lodge, after being prepped with books and videos, that I must ritually kill anyone they choose, of any age or sex, be it family or friend, to prove myself. I refused on the spot, and immediately came attempts on my life and frame setups, which I'm streetwise enough to beat. I even requested refugee status with Canada, because of the terorism that followed.

Wayne will say they're not really freemasons, but that's not what they think. NSA covers for them anyhow, with immunity from prosecution. Cops went to a main supplier of mine and told him they'd be serving a warrant the next day, so be gone and have the place clean. Next day, the raid came on an empty house, no arrests.

Wayne & Albion don't fool me at all with their long winded denials of anything. The worst criminals I've known in my career have all been freemasons. But God saved me from their attempts to kill me via dud rounds...Ephesians 6:16.

My family and friends and I have all been pressured atrociously by gov, and victimized by corruption on behalf of freemasons. It's beyond forgiveness here. <(°^°)> = masons.

 

[AndrewCS]

It's quite simple really.

God does not do things in secret,

Any society that operates in smoke & mirror fashion is NOT operating in Godly principals.

Knowledge is power - is how secret societies operate and the need to take “oaths” and make pact with man is NOT how God tell us to live.

Isn’t most Masonic purpose about wealth and power ?

That is the OPPOSITE of GOD

God Bless

 

[JamesJD]

It's quite simple really.

God does not do things in secret,

Any society that operates in smoke & mirror fashion is NOT operating in Godly principals.

Knowledge is power - is how secret societies operate and the need to take “oaths” and make pact with man is NOT how God tell us to live.

Isn’t most Masonic purpose about wealth and power ?

That is the OPPOSITE of GOD

God Bless

Good post, Christian! Knowing the type of repy you'll get, I thought I'd answer also.

They'll say it's not about wealth and power, but perfecting character, which is the front steps freemasonry propaganda cover to dupe the uninitiated. A mason told me that they get job preference by putting Lodge info on job applications; thereby they sell their souls to freemasonry for a better life, in return for secrecy and loyalty.

The intimidating rites like the rope around the neck and a blade to the chest while blindfolded conditions rising masons to submit to their power as slaves of the agenda...OR ELSE. The oaths are very enforced with extreme prejudice, as in the old case of Captain Morgan. He violated his oath and was abducted, never to be seen again. Most stories like that never reach the public. But over 1000 citizens per day go permanently missing, and death certificates can be falsified, and "accidents" staged.

I've been threatened with being made a "shrine" myself, for masons to laugh at as they watch me die. They'll say prove it, but as you can see, I'm actively enough in the fight to get such threats, and I know which people plan to be there, participating, of those I know. God has protected me enough to know that God is real, and aganst freemasonry. I can assure you, the top masons have been astounded at God protecting me; so have I. Ephesians 6:12-16, Isaiah 54:15-17.

 

[AndrewCS]

Good post, Christian! Knowing the type of repy you'll get, I thought I'd answer also.

They'll say it's not about wealth and power, but perfecting character, which is the front steps freemasonry propaganda cover to dupe the uninitiated. A mason told me that they get job preference by putting Lodge info on job applications; thereby they sell their souls to freemasonry for a better life, in return for secrecy and loyalty.

The intimidating rites like the rope around the neck and a blade to the chest while blindfolded conditions rising masons to submit to their power as slaves of the agenda...OR ELSE. The oaths are very enforced with extreme prejudice, as in the old case of Captain Morgan. He violated his oath and was abducted, never to be seen again. Most stories like that never reach the public. But over 1000 citizens per day go permanently missing, and death certificates can be falsified, and "accidents" staged.

I've been threatened with being made a "shrine" myself, for masons to laugh at as they watch me die. They'll say prove it, but as you can see, I'm actively enough in the fight to get such threats, and I know which people plan to be there, participating, of those I know. God has protected me enough to know that God is real, and aganst freemasonry. I can assure you, the top masons have been astounded at God protecting me; so have I. Ephesians 6:12-16, Isaiah 54:15-17.

Jesus said to the high priest: "I spoke openly to the world; and in secret I have said nothing" (John 18:20).

There it is .....

God Bless

 

[Rev Wayne]

Isnt it true that Billy Graham is a freemason?

No.

God does not do things in secret,

Any society that operates in smoke & mirror fashion is NOT operating in Godly principals.

Guess again:

&#8220;But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly. And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.&#8221;&#8212;Matthew 6:3-6


&#8220;Another parable He spoke to them: "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened.All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world.&#8221;&#8212;Matthew 13:33-35


&#8220;But they did not understand this saying, and it was hidden from them so that they did not perceive it; and they were afraid to ask Him about this saying.&#8221;&#8212;Luke 9:45


&#8220;But they understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them, and they did not know the things which were spoken.&#8221;&#8212;Luke 18:34


&#8220;But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,&#8221;&#8212;1 Corinthians 2:7


&#8220;Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.&#8221;&#8212;1 Corinthians 4:1


Apparently the claim that "God does not do things in secret" cannot be maintained. He has been doing things in secret "since the foundation of the world."

And when you consider that the primary function of Freemasonry beyond its fraternal relationships is its charitable endeavors, then I'd say that of all charitable organizations that could be named, they probably come the closest to follow Jesus' instructions on how to go about conducting charities: "do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret."

A mason told me that they get job preference by putting Lodge info on job applications; thereby they sell their souls to freemasonry for a better life, in return for secrecy and loyalty.

"A Mason told me?" You really are a riot. If I "sold my soul for a better life," it sure is a puzzle to me how I wound up with a family of five, not only trying to get by on one income, but trying to do so with that one income being a pastor's salary. If you wish to make accusations of living a better life, I presume you mean financially, on imaginations of Masonic preferment, the Masons I know will get a good laugh at the thought. But actually, I have to admit, I can't find a better life than one being lived in direct obedience to God, by following His will and fulfilling the divine calling He has given. In that regard, then yes, the last 20 years have been the best of my life.