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Freemasonry again

gaijin178

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Ok, I know that there are other threads that have been done on this but...I just had a glimpse of nostalgia. My grandfather whom I didn't really know was a shriner...always thought that it was a bit weird but never asked. I was reading "the truth about witchcraft" today...a very easy read if anyone is interested....and they talked about freemasons using folk magick in their temples....lodges...whatever. I was told that a majority of the masons were Christians...how does this fit in with the Christian belief? I know that from a magick perspective it does fit in and many traditions use magick but what do you think?
 

Miaka-Chan

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they are christians, there isn't magick just prescribed "ritual" which is just a prescribed way of doing things. I come from a family of Masons. This is what I witness to be the truth, but I have seen threads on this before. May the usual debate ensue. I've nothing else to add.
 
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gaijin178

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Miaka-Chan said:
they are christians, there isn't magick just prescribed "ritual" which is just a prescribed way of doing things. I come from a family of Masons. This is what I witness to be the truth, but I have seen threads on this before. May the usual debate ensue. I've nothing else to add.

Ok, but can't all rituals be described as magick in some form or another?
 
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Kira Faye

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I actually don't think free masons is connected to religion much at all. From what I know at the lodge u don't disscuss religion or politics. It is open to people of many religions and they DO base their things on christian things but it is not christian. My dad is/was was the leader of his lodge and I talked to one of his friends as well.
 
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LightBearer

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As far as I know freemasonry is a Secret Society open only to men. If this is the case it is incompatible with Christianity, for Jesus said of Christians: “YOU are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when situated upon a mountain. People light a lamp and set it, not under the measuring basket, but upon the lampstand, and it shines upon all those in the house. Likewise let YOUR light shine before men, that they may see YOUR fine works and give glory to YOUR Father who is in the heavens. Matthew 5:14-16.

Christians are to be open not secretive.
 
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Myah

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LightBearer said:
As far as I know freemasonry is a Secret Society open only to men. If this is the case it is incompatible with Christianity, for Jesus said of Christians: “YOU are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when situated upon a mountain. People light a lamp and set it, not under the measuring basket, but upon the lampstand, and it shines upon all those in the house. Likewise let YOUR light shine before men, that they may see YOUR fine works and give glory to YOUR Father who is in the heavens. Matthew 5:14-16.

Christians are to be open not secretive.

Masonry isn't restricted to men. There are organizations within the group that are for women. Daughter of the Eastern Star, if I recall correctly. Job's Daughters are for the daughters of Masons (my mother was one) and there is a group for the son's of a mason, though I can't recall what they are called.
 
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LightBearer

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Myah said:
Masonry isn't restricted to men. There are organizations within the group that are for women. Daughter of the Eastern Star, if I recall correctly. Job's Daughters are for the daughters of Masons (my mother was one) and there is a group for the son's of a mason, though I can't recall what they are called.
Why all the divisions?

Just asking.
 
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Myah

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I don't really know, as I've not really spoken about it a great deal with my family, since joining one of those groups for women never appealed to me. The Job's Daughters and the other for the son's of a mason, Demolays (unsure of the spelling) are for the children of masons until they reach a certain age, if I'm not mistaken. I think Job's Daughters can remain until they are either 20 or 21..though I'm not certain of the exact age. After they reach that age, I believe that the option to join the Masons or Daughter of the Eastern Star becomes available.
 
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billmcelligott

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Hi Guys

I am a freemason, I am happy to answer any questions.

However you will probably find the anti Masonic brigade will soon arrive and start biting lumps out of me so be quick.

I am a Past Master in Craft and Royal Arch Masonry.

I have no wish to convert anyone to Masonry , only interested in the Truth.

1) To be a Shriner you must first be a Craft or Blue Lodge Mason, a Master Mason.
2) All the ritual is a living theatre based on the Old Testament . Its only based much is constrcuted to teach life lessons.
3) Magick is not a concept within modern Masonry, however there have been some Masons, that dabbled in occult and Magick and ancient Mysteries. This mostly died out about 100 years ago.
4) Probaly 80 % of World Masonry is a Christian membership.
5) Myah24 has given a good idea of the sections within Masonry , there are many more.
6)
Christians are to be open not secretive.
That would be nice ?

Anyway if you have an interest I am happy to be of service.
 
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Kira Faye

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Well from what I remember its really got nothign to do religion. It was based aroudn the masons who were just that and durign a time when their trade was nto required as much they kinda came up with a group to keep their trade secrets going and became quite influential in society. They give to charity and then the free masons came abotu for people who like the society but were not mason kinda people (talkign about the trade)

The liked some of the christian teachings so they did add them and thats abotu as far as it goes me thinks. I think u would find mainly christians and peopel with no religion.

I don't think the secrecy has is much of a problem, no one can say they don't have secrets from other people. If god knwos everything then he knows what goes on with the christians in there so its no difference.
 
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Rev Wayne

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I must say, this thread is a breath of fresh air compared to some on this subject. I did see one comment that prompted a response.

Lightbearer said:
As far as I know freemasonry is a Secret Society open only to men. If this is the case it is incompatible with Christianity, for Jesus said of Christians: “YOU are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when situated upon a mountain. People light a lamp and set it, not under the measuring basket, but upon the lampstand, and it shines upon all those in the house. Likewise let YOUR light shine before men, that they may see YOUR fine works and give glory to YOUR Father who is in the heavens. Matthew 5:14-16.

Christians are to be open not secretive.
Maybe you stopped a little short. The next chapter says:

1 "Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly. 5 "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. (Matthew 6:1-6)

Since one of the great principles that Masonry is about is charitable relief, it would seem to me they are conducting themselves according to the principles laid out for the practice by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Wayne
 
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O.F.F.

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To Whom if May Concern:

If you are interested in what Freemasonry is about from the perspective of former Masons who have "been there and done it" please go to the following link. Afterwards, I would be happy to answer any questions you may have from our point-of-view.

Freemasonry 101
 
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Rev Wayne

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To Whom if May Concern:

If you are interested in what Freemasonry is about from the perspective of former Masons who have "been there and done it" please go to the following link. Afterwards, I would be happy to answer any questions you may have from our point-of-view.

Well, gee, it's been quite awhile now with no comment, looks like there's no interest at all.
Maybe you can take a hint?
 
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Rev Wayne

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Interesting piece, this "Freemasonry 101." Let's take a brief look:

Many who join the Masonic Lodge become intrigued by its eloquent ritual, its stunning regalia, impressive pageantry, and its universality, including its secret modes of recognition. All of this, of course, will naturally attract interested petitioning candidates, impress the initiates, and "puff-up" its members. Yet rather than instill the virtue of humility, as taught in the Bible, these aspects of the fraternity often build pride and unfortunately encourage an attitude of arrogance, and/or superiority.

Perhaps it was this way for Mr. Gentry, but if so, the problem lay with him and not with Masonry. His own comments contradict this:

While a good number of people have, at least, heard about Freemasonry and may even view it as a fraternal or civic organization, most people in the world have no clue as to what it really is.

Well, what it "really" is is no secret, but even so, many people have never heard of them, or of the many good things many Masons are involved in. Why do people not know? Because these "proud" men don't really care for bragging about such things.

"It was the single object of all the ancient rites and mysteries practiced in the very bosom of pagan darkness, ...to teach the immortality of the soul. This is still the great design of the third degree of Masonry. This is the scope and aim of its ritual. The Master Mason represents man, when youth, manhood, old age, and life itself have passed away as fleeting shadows, yet raised from the grave of iniquity, and quickened into another and better existence. By its legend and all its ritual, it is implied that we have been redeemed from the death of sin and the sepulchre of pollution."

Source; Ahiman Rezon, page 141, Grand Lodge of South Carolina

On the contrary, the Bible teaches that we are redeemed from the penalty of sin (which is death) by the precious blood of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ our Lord. What incredible heresy for Freemasonry to say that by its legend and all its ritual, it is implied that we (Masons) have been redeemed from the death of sin.

"Redeemed from the death of sin"--sound Christian? Of course it does, and with good reason: when the rituals were first written, Masonry WAS Christian Yes, it developed from the old morality plays, which were put on by the local guilds, the Masonic Guild being one of them. Masons would supply the actors, who would memorize their lines and play the parts of the various characters in the plays. The plays themselves were re-enactments of Scripture. They had originally been enacted by Roman Catholic priests, but the Catholic Church, fearing what would happen if the people were ever alllowed to learn the stories of the Bible in their native tongue (how horrible!), prohibited priests from participating in them.

So why does the ritual remain unchanged? Tradition, more than anything else. Masonic actors must have been real sticklers for learning the words exactly as they were taught, and the practice carried over when they developed ritual re-enactments of their own, aimed at teaching moral precepts. Every word, every phrase, was considered to have important nuances of meaning, and Masonry has traditionally been extremely reluctant to change in the least manner anything that has been handed down to them.

Another thing you have to watch is what Mr. Gentry leaves out when he quotes. Most of the time if you see the little three-dot ellipsis, you can safely assume that he has left out something that either contradicts his position, or simply makes statements about Masonry which he would prefer the reader be kept in the dark. This one is no exception. The omitted material reads:

"shining as a solitary beacon in all that surrounding gloom, and cheering the philosopher in his weary pilgrimage of life"

I guess that just sounded too positive for him to print.

A basic definition from a Masonic perspective is that it is, "a beautiful system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols." However, the questions we explore throughout this website are; is it really about morality, and what is the deeper meaning of its allegory and symbols?

The dictionary defines allegory as:

"A story or narrative, as a fable, in which a moral truth or principle is presented by means of fictional characters, events, etc."

Funk and Wagnalls Standard Desk Dictionary

The operative words here are "moral truth," as well as "fictional characters" and "fictional events." Contrary to this definition, Freemasonry takes real biblical characters, such as King Solomon and Hiram of Tyre, to tell a fictitious story based on a true historical event — the building of the Temple to Yahweh (the God of the Bible). In other words, the absurdity of the Legend in Freemasonry is that it tells a biblical lie in order to teach a moral truth.
Apparently Mr. Gentry never read Galatians, or he would have seen the story of Hagar and Ishmael, used allegorically by Paul to make points that were not the intent of the original. So the suggestion that Masonry's use of a true story rather than a fictional one, is improper use of allegory, is preposterous. Paul does the same thing, and says as he does so, "These things are an allegory" (Gal. 4:24, KJV--the NKJV says "These things are symbolic"). And actually, Freemasonry does not do what Mr. Gentry accuses anyway, for it is admitted that Hiram is merely symbolic, and that the story used in the third degree is not to taken as a biblically factual account. Thus Freemasonry has followed the definition supplied by the dictionary, it is a fictional story used to illustrate a moral truth. I have in my library a fictional book called "The Day Christ Died." It is not written as a biblically factual account of the events of that day, it is an embellished story built around the truth of what happened that day. There was no groundswell of opposition from Christians when the man wrote the book. Why not? Because, just as Masonry admits the account of building Solomon's temple is symbolic and not factual, Jim Bishop stated in his preface exactly what his intent was, and explained it was not intended to be factually accurate in every detail.

Supposedly, another one of Freemasonry's key principles is brotherly love. Yet, it is the most segregated — in fact — the only segregated fraternity in the world! While there are Black, White, Asian and Hispanic fraternities and sororities, does anyone know of a sorority or fraternity that is segregated within itself other than Freemasonry?
Well, for one thing, I would challenge the idea they are the "only" segregated fraternity in the world. No evidence is provided to support this outlandish claim. At the school I attended, practically all the fraternities on campus were segregated. And he seems to have forgotten about one group, which while not a fraternity, certainly claims "the wall of partition has been broken down"--the Church. The old adage is still around that 11 a.m. Sunday remains "the most segregated hou of the week." Making the statement Mike does as a Christian speaking against the Lodge is pretty hollow.
Freemasons are taught to believe that, not only is there one God, but each Mason can interpret the Supreme Being any way he chooses, even if his interpretation is not biblical. Freemasonry symbolizes this syncretistic God with the letter "G" and the name, Great Architect of the Universe (G.A.O.T.U.).
A common error, misunderstanding the nature and purpose of the phrase--which is exactly what it is, a phrase, not a "name," one which essentially means nothing different than the use of the word "God." Use the word "God" around anyone of most religions, and they will understand the concept. But if they are of a different religion, thy will understand it differently than a Christian. That's nothing unusual, it has always been that way in the real world. In the same way, use "Grand Achitect of the Universe" in the presence of Masons, and they will understand the concept--but if any of them should happen to be of another religion, they would understand it differently than a Christian. The fact is, Masonry is not a religion, and thus Masonry chooses no one's religion for them. And "Grand Architect of the Universe" is a phrase that was coined by a Christian (John Calvin) to speak of Jesus Christ.



By praying among believers in other gods who call into presence their gods during prayer in the lodge, while at the same time Christian Masons call into presence Yahweh (the God of the Bible); Christian Masons are consenting to worship Yahweh in concert with those who are worshipping false gods in His presence.

Well, we tend to leave the "in concert" up to God and let Him sort that out, much the same way as would at a football game where prayer is offered before the game, and every head is bowed in prayer, whether Christian or some other religion. If God is still the same God with all the names of other religions still referring to Him, then we have all prayed to Him and all is well. If God is only the Christian God, then I have prayed in my heart to the Christian God anyway, and all is still well with me. I really wonder what Mike does with the remark Jesus made as He chased the money-handlers out of the Temple: "It is written, 'My house shall be a house of prayer for all peoples.'" (a fulfillment of Isa. 2:2-3).

The Hoodwink symbolizes that the candidate is in darkness in need of light. What kind of darkness? Moral and spiritual darkness, which is where all profanes (those without the light of Freemasonry) come from.

Again, totally ignoring the symbolic nature of Masonry. The idea of being in darkness comes in the first degree, and is symbolic of the same beginning point we all have, the darkness of inexperience and ignorance. Light is equated to knowledge, not to spiritual awareness, in Masonry.

This Masonic worldview is heretical, in that it suggests that all holy writings are equally valid,

Again, just as in the discussion about what God is to be called, Masonry simply does not make that choice for the individual. But Masonry, coming from thoroughly Christian origins, has been overwhelmingly made up of Christians, both traditionally and presently. Present-day numbers estimate 90% or higher are Christian, the percentages were far higher in the past.

The Three Great Lights of Masonry are the Volume of Sacred Law (VSL), the Square and Compass.

Well, naturally Mike is playing pick and choose with his readers. The 90%+ figure is applicable here also: go find every Masonic source you can find that refers to the 3 Great Lights of Masonry, and you will find "Holy Bible, square, and compasses" in 90% or better of them. Go search every Masonic source you can find that refers to "THE" Great Light of Masonry," and 90% or higher (I daresay much higher) will tell you it is the Holy Bible. It has always been considered the "rule and guide for our faith" in Masonry, and is the only book among all books considered "holy books" that you will find quoted again and again in Masonic ritual. Masonry simply quotes no other book with that authority, which in itself speaks volumes.

Masons must somehow apply these working tools in their day-to-day lives. Although they are never really shown how to do this, Masons are expected to studying and apply Masonic principles and through their own effort "improve themselves in Masonry."

Not so, Masonr are taught to seek the help of God in all things, being taught to "begin every great undertaking with prayer," and even hearing in the first prayer in the Lodge,

"Vouchsafe Thine aid, Almighty Father of the Universe, to this our present convention; and grant that this candidate for Masonry may dedicate and devote his life to Thy service, and become a true and faithful brother among us. Endue him with a competency of Thy wisdom, that by the influence of the pure principles of our Order he may the better be enabled to display the beauties of holiness to the honor of Thy Holy Name." Amen.

Seeking the aid of God--asking for God to "grant" this--and as the purpose: "to the honor of Thy Holy Name." So any improvement not only acknowledges the source to be God, the Mason has depended on God for it throughout.

There is no mention of Jesus in the Masonic ritual, nor do they teach that those who are in Christ are the tabernacle/temple of God.

Arguments from absence are not valid. You might just as well argue a pro-homosexuality viewpoint from the standpoint that Jesus "said nothing about it." But that does not validate the argument, especially when you consider that everything Jesus did say on human sexuality, presupposed a heterosexual context and a divine institution of sexuality within the marriage covenant, one man/one woman, as what God has ordained.

The argument from absence is particularly valid when you consider the intent of the non-mention, which was not exclusion but non-specificity. Masonry is not in the business of telling anyone who or how or what or when or why to worship.

I could go point-for-point thru the entire article, but it would only be more of the same. A lot of the errors Mr. Gentry has made can be avoided by a move as simple as recognizing the symbolism and allegory and imagery of Freemasonry, which set it apart from practically any other group you can name. The error of trying to force everything one finds in Masonry into a rigid, literal, "this-is-that-and-only-that" interpretational framework is a hideous one, and leads to the gross errors like those found in "Freemasonry 101." It is an exercise comparable to reading the Song of Solomon with a purely literal eye. What will a literalist think when reading of the supposed beauties of a person who is described in terms such as:

1Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead. 2Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them. 3Thy lips are like a thread of scarlet, and thy speech is comely: thy temples are like a piece of a pomegranate within thy locks. 4Thy neck is like the tower of David builded for an armoury, whereon there hang a thousand bucklers, all shields of mighty men.

What a beauty! Take that literally, and I don't think the men will exactly be beating a path to the door.

Make no mistake about the analogy, it is exactly what a huge and unrelenting pile of misunderstanding has brought about in the case of freemasonry. If it were misunderstanding alone, it would be bad enough, but it has been compounded by those who know better and continue to proliferate opinions that they know to be pure fabrication.















 
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ravenscape

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My grandfather was a mason. A carpenter too. He didn't talk much about it, but told me I was eligible to join the women's part of the organization. Sometimes I wish I had joined, so I'd know what all the hollering is about on threads like this. :)

Actually, the main reason I didn't join was because when I was teen, the people who were involved in Daughter of the Eastern Star were not people I hung out with. So, I stuck with my friends in Chess Club and Latin Club.
 
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Rev Wayne

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Clearly, "Freemasonry 101" flunks the course. If you want Masonic information that is accurate, one such site has already been mentioned. For another good source, try this one:

http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry_faq.html

If one is seeking employment with a particular firm, one generally might consider discreetly contacting a couple of pelple who work there.

But if one limits such contact to only disgruntled ex-workers blocking the entrance to the firm with a picket line, then what sort of opinions do you suppose you will find? And will they not be all of the same negative vein?
 
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Rev Wayne

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ravenscape said:
My grandfather was a mason. A carpenter too. He didn't talk much about it, but told me I was eligible to join the women's part of the organization. Sometimes I wish I had joined, so I'd know what all the hollering is about on threads like this. :)

Actually, the main reason I didn't join was because when I was teen, the people who were involved in Daughter of the Eastern Star were not people I hung out with. So, I stuck with my friends in Chess Club and Latin Club.

Thanks for commenting, and I noticed the "secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist." I thought the same once, but I find Masons are far more fervent in urging upon one another the urgency of living a life and a witness accountable unto God, than the average Christian ever dreamed of being.

And, being one who by nature has a greater need for it than the average, I was naturally drawn to that aspect of the group. But only after I had resolved quite a number of other key points to my own Christian understanding.

Other than that, I suppose Freemasonry would never have been a pressing issue with me--except for the burr I get in my saddle when I see good men vilified, and quite a bit of it intentionally.
 
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ravenscape

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The quote under my name has nothing to do with Masonry. It's more a comment on heirarchical organizations that either intentionally or unintentionally use heirarchy to spread and hide accountability to such a point that no one is accountable for anything, at least in some arenas.

Although some religious organizations may sometimes fall into this trap, I wouldn't exactly call it a rampant problem.
 
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The quote under my name has nothing to do with Masonry. It's more a comment on heirarchical organizations that either intentionally or unintentionally use heirarchy to spread and hide accountability to such a point that no one is accountable for anything, at least in some arenas.

Kinda like the O.T.O! lol :crossrc:
 
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