Freedom from Sin: Overcoming the Wet Paint Principle (the complete version)

[Bible Highlighter]

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9.

Therefore the one who is a saint cannot be a sinner.

I am therefore made perfect for ever through faith in Jesus Christ; and this righteousness is not based in the law.

I am counted as perfect in Christ because I am born of God; and this means I desire to obey the Lord perfectly.

Before in this write up, you wrote:

"I am not obligated to obey the law for my salvation."
If I fail to obey the law, I am not condemned—but because I am not condemned—because I am born of God—1 John 3:9
—I will not fail to obey the law."
Quote by: Just by Faith.​

You are primarily quoting 1 John 3:9 again (and saying a similar thing). So you are merely repeating yourself. Anyways, the problem we have here is two fold.

#1. You are saying that if you fail to obey God's law, you are not condemned. This means that you can sin and still be saved (Which is an immoral concept and unbiblical one).

#2. You said you will not fail to obey the Law and that your desire to obey the Lord is perfect. Okay. Let me ask you. Do you fail to obey all of God's laws today? All 1,000 + New Testament commands? Is your desire to obey the Lord perfectly count if you fall into sin?

See, the problem I have is that you have a safety net to sin a little and still be saved while you desire to obey God perfectly someday. It just doesn't jive or make any sense.

Besides, you are taking 1 John 3:9 out of context. As I said before, 1 John 3:8 says, "He that committeth sin is of the devil;" 1 John 3:10 says, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

By what you said so far, you want 1 John 3:9 to say one of two things here.
You want it to say that either:

(a) You don't sin when you do sin, (and or):
(b) You will not sin because God will always make you do the right thing (Meaning that your free will is no more or it is seriously limited to God's control).​

However these two interpretations do not work because 1 John 3:8 says if you sin you are of the devil and 1 John 3:10 says that whosoever does not righteousness is not of God. Now, some of those who declare "We can break God's laws and still be saved" will say that 1 John 3:10 is talking generally in regards to doing righteous deeds. They are saying that they will habitually do righteousness but they will not always do righteous things. This does not work because 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil (i.e. a singular act). 1 John 3:15 also says that whosoever hates his brother is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. So how many thoughts or acts of unkindness does it take to hate your brother? It only takes one thought or action to hate your brother; And 1 John 3:15 says that whosoever hates his brother essentially does not have eternal life abiding in them.

Paul says that to love your neighbor is the same as the keeping of the Moral Law (like do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, etc.) (See Romans 13:8-10). Wouldn't loving your neighbor include loving your brother? Most certainly it would. Now, if we disobey God's moral laws were are not loving our neighbor and or our brother; And according to 1 John 3:15, if we hate our brother, no eternal life abides in us. This means there is no salvation for us if we hate our brother. This means you cannot disobey God's laws and still be saved (as so many others in the church today claim).

You also said here that you are forever made perfect by faith in Jesus Christ. First, no Scripture verse ever actually says these kind of words. Second, when Scripture does talk about perfection, it is related many times to taking right actions. For example: When Jesus tells us to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect in Matthew 5, he is saying to pray for our enemies, and to do good unto them. Yet, you have not grasped this concept yet because you said before that you wish wrath upon the moderators of this website.

Therefore I obey Jesus because I want to, not because I have to.

I have heard this line too many times than I care to count from those who say "We can break God's laws and still be saved." However, no actual verse or set of verses says such a thing.

On the contrary, Scripture says,

"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;" (Hebrews 2:3).

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
(Hebrews 3:12-14).

32 The law cannot condemn me as long as I place my faith and trust in Christ.

The breaking of the Old Law as a whole cannot condemn you, but the breaking of the New Law can condemn you.

"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law." (Romans 2:12).

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:1).

33 Because I am not under the law, am dead to the law, and am delivered from the law, the Father sees me as perfect and I am therefore set free to obey the law to the best of my ability apart from fear of condemnation.

34 The wet paint principle is also stripped of its power because I know that I am accepted in the Beloved.

Paul says work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
When Paul says that the brethren have died to the Law in Romans 7:4, you also have to read Romans 7:6 that says, "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." What is the oldness of the letter? It is the Old Law or the 613 Commands given to Israel. It is not talking about New Covenant law because it had not been written entirely yet. NT Scripture was still being formed at this time. John says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Which is the Second Death) (See Revelation 21:8). There is no mention of a second group of liars who believe in Jesus who will be exempt from going into the Lake of Fire. Jesus warned us about the unprofitable servant being cast into outer darkness. The unprofitable servant was not unprofitable because he did not have a belief alone on Jesus. He was unprofitable because he did not utilize the talents God gave Him.

 

[justbyfaith]

I really don’t like playing guessing games. Please talk to me straight or speak plainly.

Thank you.

Side Note:

Before you referred to the article as being written by someone else and then now you are saying you had wrote it. This is technically lying.

Jesus referred to Himself in the third person on not a few occasions, and satan is the accuser of the brethren. Try not to be like him!

 

[justbyfaith]

I really don’t like playing guessing games. Please talk to me straight or speak plainly.

Thank you.

Side Note:

Before you referred to the article as being written by someone else and then now you are saying you had wrote it. This is technically lying.

I was talking to you straight enough, you just didn't make the connection between posts.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hebrews 10:26 says,
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,”
‭‭
Solution:

1 John 1:9 says,
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

As for 1 Corinthians 15:56 talking about how the strength of sin is the Law:

I believe this is in reference to the Law of Moses (and not all Law).

First, in 1 Corinthians 9:8-9, Paul mentions the Law of Moses (Which would later play into his mentioning of the Law in 1 Corinthians 15:56).

Second, Paul says this about the Old Law.

"For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:5-6).

"But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." (Galatians 5:18).

"But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!" (Galatians 5:22-23).

"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4).
‭‭

I address these things later in the document.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus referred to Himself in the third person on not a few occasions, and satan is the accuser of the brethren. Try not to be like him, ok?

Jesus had a good reason to do so.
You don't.
Therein lies the difference.

Jesus is God and He hid His identity because He had a mission to accomplish. That is one of the reasons why He spoke in the third person. Jesus had a good reason. But you do not appear to have a good reason because you just shortly revealed it later.

I would be careful with doing this because most will see it as deceptive if you do not have a good reason for doing so. If you have a good reason, people will understand. For example: If you used a play on words to hide Jews in your home from Nazi's, this would be considered acceptable by most. But if you just did that all the time with people for no real good reason, they will just avoid you because you are not being upfront or straight with them. They will see you as trying to hides things for no good reason and they will think that you are just messing with them (Which is not nice).

 

[justbyfaith]

Before in this write up, you wrote:

"I am not obligated to obey the law for my salvation."
If I fail to obey the law, I am not condemned—but because I am not condemned—because I am born of God—1 John 3:9
—I will not fail to obey the law."
Quote by: Just by Faith.​

You are primarily quoting 1 John 3:9 again (and saying a similar thing). So you are merely repeating yourself. Anyways, the problem we have here is two fold.

#1. You are saying that if you fail to obey God's law, you are not condemned. This means that you can sin and still be saved (Which is an immoral concept and unbiblical one).

#2. You said you will not fail to obey the Law and that your desire to obey the Lord is perfect. Okay. Let me ask you. Do you fail to obey all of God's laws today? All 1,000 + New Testament commands? Is your desire to obey the Lord perfectly count if you fall into sin?

See, the problem I have is that you have a safety net to sin a little and still be saved while you desire to obey God perfectly someday. It just doesn't jive or make any sense.

Besides, you are taking 1 John 3:9 out of context. As I said before, 1 John 3:8 says, "He that committeth sin is of the devil;" 1 John 3:10 says, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

By what you said so far, you want 1 John 3:9 to say one of two things here.
You want it to say that either:

(a) You don't sin when you do sin, (and or):
(b) You will not sin because God will always make you do the right thing (Meaning that your free will is no more or it is seriously limited to God's control).​

However these two interpretations do not work because 1 John 3:8 says if you sin you are of the devil and 1 John 3:10 says that whosoever does not righteousness is not of God. Now, some of those who declare "We can break God's laws and still be saved" will say that 1 John 3:10 is talking generally in regards to doing righteous deeds. They are saying that they will habitually do righteousness but they will not always do righteous things. This does not work because 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil (i.e. a singular act). 1 John 3:15 also says that whosoever hates his brother is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. So how many thoughts or acts of unkindness does it take to hate your brother? It only takes one thought or action to hate your brother; And 1 John 3:15 says that whosoever hates his brother essentially does not have eternal life abiding in them.

Paul says that to love your neighbor is the same as the keeping of the Moral Law (like do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, etc.) (See Romans 13:8-10). Wouldn't loving your neighbor include loving your brother? Most certainly it would. Now, if we disobey God's moral laws were are not loving our neighbor and or our brother; And according to 1 John 3:15, if we hate our brother, no eternal life abides in us. This means there is no salvation for us if we hate our brother. This means you cannot disobey God's laws and still be saved (as so many others in the church today claim).

You also said here that you are forever made perfect by faith in Jesus Christ. First, no Scripture verse ever actually says these kind of words. Second, when Scripture does talk about perfection, it is related many times to taking right actions. For example: When Jesus tells us to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect in Matthew 5, he is saying to pray for our enemies, and to do good unto them. Yet, you have not grasped this concept yet because you said before that you wish wrath upon the moderators of this website.



I have heard this line too many times than I care to count from those who say "We can break God's laws and still be saved." However, no actual verse or set of verses says such a thing.

On the contrary, Scripture says,

"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;" (Hebrews 2:3).

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
(Hebrews 3:12-14).



The breaking of the Old Law as a whole cannot condemn you, but the breaking of the New Law can condemn you.

"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law." (Romans 2:12).

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:1).



Paul says work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
When Paul says that the brethren have died to the Law in Romans 7:4, you also have to read Romans 7:6 that says, "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." What is the oldness of the letter? It is the Old Law or the 613 Commands given to Israel. It is not talking about New Covenant law because it had not been written entirely yet. NT Scripture was still being formed at this time. John says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Which is the Second Death) (See Revelation 21:8). There is no mention of a second group of liars who believe in Jesus who will be exempt from going into the Lake of Fire. Jesus warned us about the unprofitable servant being cast into outer darkness. The unprofitable servant was not unprofitable because he did not have a belief alone on Jesus. He was unprofitable because he did not utilize the talents God gave Him.

1) Hebrews 10:14 says that by one offering he hath perfected for ever them who are sanctified, and Philippians 3:9 and others tell us our rightrousness is not based in the law.
2) According to you King David was unrighteous in the writing of such scriptures as Psalms 143:12 (mimpreccatory Psalms)
and, 3) your very premise is wrong. The Old Testament law is still valid (Matthew 5:17-20). Also the New Testament law will condemn you if you break it, except they be under the blood, as is the case with Old Testament law.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus had a good reason to do so.
You don't.
Therein lies the difference.

Jesus is God and He hid His identity because He had a mission to accomplish. That is one of the reasons why He spoke in the third person. Jesus had a good reason. But you do not appear to have a good reason because you just shortly revealed it later.

I would be careful with doing this because most will see it as deceptive if you do not have a good reason for doing so. If you have a good reason, people will understand. For example: If you used a play on words to hide Jews in your home from Nazi's, this would be considered acceptable by most. But if you just did that all the time with people for no real good reason, they will just avoid you because you are not being upfront or straight with them. They will see you as trying to hides things for no good reason and they will think that you are just messing with them (Which is not nice).

According to the same measure that ye have meted out judgment, so shall it be meted out to you. You had better hope this is done by man and not God.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus had a good reason to do so.
You don't.
Therein lies the difference.

Jesus is God and He hid His identity because He had a mission to accomplish. That is one of the reasons why He spoke in the third person. Jesus had a good reason. But you do not appear to have a good reason because you just shortly revealed it later.

I would be careful with doing this because most will see it as deceptive if you do not have a good reason for doing so. If you have a good reason, people will understand. For example: If you used a play on words to hide Jews in your home from Nazi's, this would be considered acceptable by most. But if you just did that all the time with people for no real good reason, they will just avoid you because you are not being upfront or straight with them. They will see you as trying to hides things for no good reason and they will think that you are just messing with them (Which is not nice).

I was also merely using the same terminology as you because it was easier at the moment. But why should I defend myself to you? I overcome you by the blood of the Lamb and the word of my testimony; and Jesus is my Advocate with the Father.

 

[justbyfaith]

The oldness of the letter has to do with trying to obey a set of do's and don'ts for salvation rather than letting the Holy Spirit lead you as the result of salvation.

 

[justbyfaith]

In post #88, I address the spirit behind your accusations.

 

[justbyfaith]

Scripture teaches that we are saved by God's grace + works and it is not exclusively one or the other alone (We are saved by God's grace: Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5. We are saved by works: Matthew 19:17, James 2:17-18, James 2:24, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 12:14).

For example: 1 John 1:7 says that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses of all sin if we walk in the light. If you were to compare 1 John 1:6-7 you will see similar wording used in 1 John 2:3-4. The words "walk in the light as He is in the light" is another way of saying "keeping God's commandment" and the word "darkness" is in reference to "not keeping his commandments" or "hating your brother."

6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
(1 John 1:6-7).

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
(1 John 2:3-4).

(a) If we say we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness (1:6) = He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments (2:4).

(b) We lie, and do not the truth (1:6) = is a liar, and the truth is not in him (2:4).

(c) If we walk in the light, as he [Christ] is in the light, we have fellowship with another, (1:7) = Hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.​

Anyways, I know what passage the author is referring to here. The author more than likely believes that Paul is talking about his struggle with sin as a Christian (See Romans 7:14-24). However, Paul is actually talking as a Pharisee (Before he became a Christian) who tried to obey a distorted version of God's laws that did not include Jesus or God's grace. The Pharisee religion was all about law and it did not include a Savior or His loving grace of forgiveness. So yes, it is true, if one seeks to follow a salvation system that is only works alone without God's grace, then one will always struggle in trying to keep God's laws. For one needs to get forgiven by God's grace and then the Lord will help the believer from there to obey God's commands.

In Romans 7:6, Paul says we should serve in newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter (Which is the Old Law and not the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed). We are told to SERVE. How do we serve? Do we just do our own thing? No. We follow God's commands in the New Testament. This talk of the Old Law is the context of verses 14-24.

We are dead to the Law by the body of Jesus Christ (Romans 7:4). Would this be the Old Law or ALL law? 1 John 3:23 is a commandment that says we are to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a New Covenant Law. So obviously we are not dead to this Law or Command. The Scriptures also say, "but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent." (Acts of the Apostles 17:30). Are we dead to this Law? Surely not. Jesus said "repent or perish." (Luke 13:3). Peter told Simon to repent (by way of prayer to God) of his wickedness of trying to pay for the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that he may be forgiven (Acts of the Apostles 8:22). Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). All this lets us know that men of God can break God's laws and they can be separated from GOD because of it. So surely some kind of Law of God is still in effect and has dire consequences for any person's soul who commits them. For Jesus said that if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). If Jesus was talking to unbelievers, this would not make any sense. They would first need to accept Christ. So the only logical conclusion is that Jesus is talking to believers in Matthew 6:15. You do not forgive (i.e. you sin or break this law of God) and you will not be forgiven or saved. 1 John 3:15 says if you hate your brother you are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Again, you hate your brother (which can be a one time act) and you do not have eternal life. It's that simple. Also, Paul condemns circumcision several times. Galatians 5:2 is the biggest verse that condemns circumcision salvationism. Circumcision is an Old Covenant Law and it is not a New Covenant Law. Paul uses the word "law" when he speaks against circumcision. So we have to conclude that Paul is saying we are dead to the Old Covenant Law and not all Law. So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

In addition, Romans 8:3-4 says,
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4).

So which Law did God send His Son for so as to condemn sin in the flesh?
It was the Old Covenant Law.
For when Jesus died on the cross, the temple veil was ripped from top to bottom letting us know that the Old Testament laws were no longer valid because the Old Laws on the animal sacrifices and the priesthood were no longer acceptable.
Jesus Christ was now our Passover Lamb.
Jesus Christ was soon be our Heavenly High Priest (after He ascended to His father after His resurrection 3 days later) so He can be our mediator between God the Father and man.

Romans 8:4 says, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

This is saying that the righteous part or aspect of the Old Law can be fulfilled in us.

Paul says elsewhere,
8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
(Romans 13:8-10).

So loving your neighbor is the righteousness of the Old Law!
We fulfill this law by walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh (i.e. sin).

So we see a consistent theme here. The word "law" used in general (with no actual description attached to it) is in reference to the Old Law in Romans 7 and Romans 8. This helps us to understand that Paul is telling us his past experience or life as a Pharisee in struggling to keep the Old Law unsuccessfully because he did not have Jesus Christ yet (in verses 14-24).


Furthermore, in Romans 8:2, we see the mention of how there are TWO laws. We also learn from this verse that keeping one of these Laws helps us to be set FREE from the other one.

In Romans 8:2, we see:

Law #1. - Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
This is a New Covenant Law that we are still under. What is this Law?
It is fulfilling the righteousness of the Law (i.e. to love your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10) by walking after the Spirit (See Romans 8:3-4).

Law #2. Sin and Death.
This is in reference to the Old Covenant Law as a whole (i.e. the 613 Old Testament Commands within the Torah). It is called the Law of Sin and Death because you could physically be put to death by not obeying this Law.​

What is the relationship of these two laws in Romans 8:2?

Keeping the New Law helps us to be free of the Old Law.
For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1).

Circumcision is not of the law, but of the patriarchs (John 7:22).

 

[justbyfaith]

And that deals with the crux of your argument in that post. (continued from #91)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1) Hebrews 10:14 says that by one offering he hath perfected for ever them who are sanctified, and

God forever perfects those who He knows have went through the Sanctification process in this life entirely. In other words, he that endures to the end shall be saved.

This has to be the interpretive view of Hebrews 10:14 because:
Hebrews 10:26 says,
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"

(In addition to many other verses - of course).

Philippians 3:9 and others tell us our rightrousness is not based in the law.

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:" (Philippians 3:9).

Let's look at the context now. For it says Paul used to be a Pharisee.

4 "Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." (Philippians 3:4-6).

Was the Pharisee religion something that was correct according to Jesus?

No.

Jesus said this of the Pharisee religion that Paul was a part of:

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matthew 23:23).

"But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Luke 11:42).

Did you catch that? Jesus said the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like: (a) Faith (b) Love of God (c) Judgment, and (d) Mercy.

Jesus said they IGNORED the weightier matters of the Law.
So they didn't obey God's laws.

So when Paul says, not having my own righteousness which is by the Law, he is talking about the Old Law (that is no more) and the false Pharisee religion that Jesus condemned. Paul is not talking about the commands given to him by Jesus or the doctrine according to Godliness. How do we know?

Well, Paul says,
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).

2) According to you King David was unrighteous in the writing of such scriptures as Psalms 143:12 (mimpreccatory Psalms)

No. David was acting within the parameters of the Old Covenant.
We are under the New Covenant with New commands.

When Jesus said He came not to destroy the law. He was not just referring to the Law alone. He was referring to the "Law and (or) the Prophets." The phrase: "Law and the prophets" is mentioned elsewhere by Jesus.

The word "Law" referred to the Pentateuch (or the 1st fives books of the Law of Moses): Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

The word "prophets" referred to the prophetic books.

The Law portion has been fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" (Ephesians 2:15).

"Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second." (Hebrews 10:9).

The prophetic books have yet to still be fulfilled. When Jesus said, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled," He was using the word "law" as in reference to the "Law and the Prophets." In other words, Jesus was referring to a good and important part of the Old Testament. This means that Jesus was saying that there were prophecies that needed to be fulfilled before a jot or a tittle will pass away from the Law and the Prophets.

and, 3) your very premise is wrong. The Old Testament law is still valid (Matthew 5:17-20). Also the New Testament law will condemn you if you break it, except they be under the blood, as is the case with Old Testament law.

The Mosaic Law (as a whole package deal) no longer exists. It became obsolete with Christ's death. It is obvious the Old Law does not still exist because various commands in the New Testament have changed what the Old Law says. For example: Paul says that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. Jesus says to us that we are no longer to render an eye for an eye but we are to turn the other cheek. When Jesus died upon the cross, the temple veil was torn letting us know that the laws on the priesthood and the animal sacrifices were no longer valid anymore. Jesus is our Heavenly High Priest and He is our Passover Lamb. Paul says we are no longer to judge according to Sabbaths and holy days. Peter was told to eat unclean animals (Which is a violation of OT Law).

However, that does not mean God does not have other laws (or commands) for us today. In fact, one must understand that God has "Eternal Moral Laws" for man since after his "fall" in the Garden. After the "fall": It was always wrong to murder, commit adultery, sleep with one's parents, get drunk, hate your brother, covet, lie, commit idolatry, etc. These Moral laws existed before the written Law and they still exist today. The written Law of Moses merely repeated them or emphasized them. But in addition to these moral laws, there were laws (within the Old Law) that were exclusive to the nation of Israel. These are ceremonial laws (like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, the dietary laws, animal sacrifices involving a priesthood) and civil laws (like on how to manage farming etc.) and judicial laws (like regulating legal matters). There were a total of 613 Commands in the Old Testament Law of Moses. Some of these Laws are God's Eternal Moral Laws; Others are exclusively for Israel and do not apply to us. Believers today are under the New Testament (i.e. the New Covenant) with new laws (Which would include God's Eternal Moral Laws). Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed (along with the change of the priesthood).

Jesus did not come to abrogate God's Eternal Moral Laws (like do not murder, do not hate, do not commit adultery, do not steal, etc.). Jesus nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us (like the Saturday Sabbath, the death penalty for disobeying God's laws, circumcision, the dietary laws, etc.) (See Colossians 2:14-17). Jesus says, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17). So Jesus did not come to destroy all Law and it's consequences but He came to fulfill them into their true intended purpose with the commands given to us within the New Testament. These commands are based on love. Love God and love your neighbor.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Circumcision is not of the law, but of the patriarchs (John 7:22).

If you read John 7:22, it says,
"Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers) ; and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man."

"And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised." (Leviticus 12:3).

So there is no contradiction in what I said.

Circumcision is a part of the Old Written Law of Moses (even though it originated before the written Law). This is nothing new for me and or any other average Christian who is remotely familiar with the story of Abraham.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I was also merely using the same terminology as you because it was easier at the moment. But why should I defend myself to you?

There is nothing secret that shall not be openly revealed one day (Luke 8:17).
Maybe there is a 1% chance that what you said was innocent.
I just know that if you were to do that with your boss or own mother, it would not go over to well with them. If what you believe you said was innocent, then you have my apologies. I just know that I would not do that personally because I would see it as being wrong. The only reason I could think of doing something like that is to save a life or lives (like Jesus did or like certain men did who hid the Jews from the Nazi's in hidden places within their home).

I overcome you by the blood of the Lamb and the word of my testimony; and Jesus is my Advocate with the Father.

Actually, my goal is not to make this about you. But your belief. The majority of what I had written was not an attack upon you but what you believe. Most of what I had written here in this thread is an attack on the wrong belief and not you. If anything you judged and insulted me several times already (with no apologies). But that's okay. I am used to that.

In any event, may God's love shine upon you this fine evening;
And lets please stick to the topic of discussion at hand.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The oldness of the letter has to do with trying to obey a set of do's and don'ts for salvation rather than letting the Holy Spirit lead you as the result of salvation.

So you are saying we cannot make a "Do Command" out of 1 John 3:23?

Granted, I get that a person needs the Spirit to be convicted of their sin to repent. But God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. So it is in God's best interest for men to come to God and obey Him.
So if a believer seeks to be forgiven by His Word, God will forgive Him.

In fact, the Holy Spirit will reprove the world of it's sin because they believe not on Jesus (John 16:8-9).

Oh, and if a believer desires to obey God's Word after they are saved by His grace, God will help them to do that (if their heart is pure and they are not looking to justify evil or sin in some way).

 

[justbyfaith]

Hebrews 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws in their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people. See also Hebrews 10:16.

Matthew 5:17-20, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, one jot or one tittle shall IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, till ALL be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break ONE OF THESE LEAST COMMANDMENTS, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever SHALL DO AND TEACH THEM, the same shall be called great in the kngdom of heaven. For I say unto you, that except your righteousness EXCEED THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES

 

[justbyfaith]

ye shall in no case enter the kingdom of heaven (sorry my tablet malfunctioned on me: I got it as a used gift).

The Pharisees were exceedingly righteous outwardly, but inside they were like dead men's bones whereas outwardly they were like whited sepulchres. They did obey God's laws, to the hilt. Paul's life as a Pharisee, as concerning the law he was blameless. But faith in Christ had not changed him on the inside. And you have taken 1 John 3:23 out of context.

 

[justbyfaith]

Also what I put in caps, as well as the first verse, adequately answers what you have said.

 

[justbyfaith]

Of course you have to believe in Jesus in order to receive the Holy Spirit. And believing in Jesus isn't the "oldness of the letter". It is necessary for salvation. Whereas Galatians 2:16 and Romans 3:20 tell us that the law doesn't save us...John is saying, If you want to keep a requirement, then do this: believe in Jesus which ought to result in you loving one another. This will fulfill what God requires.