free will

[Nanopants]

Does God have free will?

Did Christ willfully lay down His life on our behalf, according to His own free will, or was He forced to do it apart from any decision of His own?

If the Son of God had free will, how can it be said that we will be conformed to His image unless we also have free will?

 

[motherprayer]

I concur

 

[Adamski]

Does God have free will?

Did Christ willfully lay down His life on our behalf, according to His own free will, or was He forced to do it apart from any decision of His own?

If the Son of God had free will, how can it be said that we will be conformed to His image unless we also have free will?

Jesus was not a sinner who "willed" himself to be saved and then lay down his life.

He had no need to be saved.

Humans need to be saved and it is not in their power to use their "free will" to save themselves.

Once we are saved, then our wills are influenced by our regenerated hearts.

 

[Tangible]

The will of the natural man is bound to his sinful flesh. He is not a sinner because he sins, he sins because he is a sinner. Only after God has created within him the new man, who alone bears the image of God, is he capable of choosing not to be a slave to sin. Yet it is not one man with free will to choose to sin or not to sin, but one man with two wills, the natural will that can only choose to sin and the will of the new man who can only choose not to sin. The Christian life is the battle between these two wills, culminating in the death of the natural man at physical death and the continuation of the new man in eternal life.

 

[seeingeyes]

Does God have free will?

Did Christ willfully lay down His life on our behalf, according to His own free will, or was He forced to do it apart from any decision of His own?

If the Son of God had free will, how can it be said that we will be conformed to His image unless we also have free will?

"Free will" may very well be the answer to the wrong question. We have no way of knowing if anyone has free will, including ourselves. My cat could be freer than I am and I would never know it.

The insistence on free will, in terms of Christian theology, stems from a desire to protect the justice of the now-classic view of hell, not from a preponderance of Scripture describing us as 'free'.

"Free will" is just one of the ways we go about defending the actions of our God. But I'm convinced now that He can fight His own battles.

 

[98cwitr]

Does God have free will?

Did Christ willfully lay down His life on our behalf, according to His own free will, or was He forced to do it apart from any decision of His own?

If the Son of God had free will, how can it be said that we will be conformed to His image unless we also have free will?

I think this answers your second question:

Luke 22:42
New International Version (NIV)
42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

We know that the cup was not removed from Him.

 

[fhansen]

Does God have free will?

Did Christ willfully lay down His life on our behalf, according to His own free will, or was He forced to do it apart from any decision of His own?

If the Son of God had free will, how can it be said that we will be conformed to His image unless we also have free will?

We're to follow Him in accepting and obeying the will of the Father.

 

[Nanopants]

I think this answers your second question:

Luke 22:42
New International Version (NIV)
42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

We know that the cup was not removed from Him.

That doesn't mean He was forced to enter Jerusalem, or to follow the will of the Father.

 

[Nanopants]

Jesus was not a sinner who "willed" himself to be saved and then lay down his life.

He had no need to be saved.

Humans need to be saved and it is not in their power to use their "free will" to save themselves.

Once we are saved, then our wills are influenced by our regenerated hearts.

The question isn't about how we are saved, but more about what the end of that salvation is. If we deny the existence of free will, either the Son has no free will (in that case how can He be any more than a puppet?) or we will not be made into His image (He is not a puppet but we will be).

 

[Tangible]

Personally, I think a more interesting question for speculation is how Adam and Eve, being created perfect and bearing the image of God, still chose to fall into sin. Or better yet, how one third of the angels, existing with full knowledge and experience of God, chose to rebel and be condemned.

 

[KimberlyAA]

God has free will. If he did not, He would be under some body else's command or some kind of robotic spirit entity. He chose to create us.

Christ laid down His life of His own free will even though He felt fear like a normal human being and wondered if it was possible for God to take the suffering from Him.

We also have free will and we can conform to His image if we choose. We may choose not to.

 

[Nanopants]

Personally, I think a more interesting question for speculation is how Adam and Eve, being created perfect and bearing the image of God, still chose to fall into sin. Or better yet, how one third of the angels, existing with full knowledge and experience of God, chose to rebel and be condemned.

Perhaps the possibility of rebellion was a necessary means to an end, in the creation of those who, by their own free will, would choose to turn away from rebellion and to choose to act rightly. But that's just my best guess.

 

[Rick Otto]

Predestination puts the relative term "free" in proper perspective.

 

[Nanopants]

Predestination puts the relative term "free" in proper perspective.

But I guess that depends on whether we were predestined to be chosen, or chosen and predestined to be ____ .

 

[Albion]

The question isn't about how we are saved, but more about what the end of that salvation is. If we deny the existence of free will, either the Son has no free will (in that case how can He be any more than a puppet?) or we will not be made into His image (He is not a puppet but we will be).

The problem with that is that the opposite of free will is definitely NOT "a puppet."

The comment made by seeingeyes, "We have no way of knowing if anyone has free will, including ourselves. My cat could be freer than I am and I would never know it." is a lot closer to the truth than most people realize.

 

[Albion]

Personally, I think a more interesting question for speculation is how Adam and Eve, being created perfect and bearing the image of God, still chose to fall into sin. Or better yet, how one third of the angels, existing with full knowledge and experience of God, chose to rebel and be condemned.

THEY did have free will. The question is whether WE do. The status of mankind changed with the Fall, you know.

 

[Nanopants]

The problem with that is that the opposite of free will is definitely NOT "a puppet."

If every choice we make is predetermined by a cause-and-effect chain of events which ultimately rests under the control of a sovereign and omniscient God, what is the difference?

 

[Albion]

If every choice we make is predetermined by a cause-and-effect chain of events which ultimately rests under the control of a sovereign and omniscient God, what is the difference?

Let's pause for a second. I was injecting a point into a conversation about "predestination" because that concept and the word are so often misunderstood. Theologically speaking, predestination does not in any way imply "puppetlike" or "robotic" behavior.

But in this thread, I'm not sure what the word was meant to convey exactly. Was it used in the theological sense, which only describes our coming (or not) to God, or was it used in another way? If it's the latter, then it could mean a lot of different things and I didn't really mean to get into that speculation.

 

[seeingeyes]

But I guess that depends on whether we were predestined to be chosen, or chosen and predestined to be ____ .

Chosen and predestined to be free?

 

[98cwitr]

That doesn't mean He was forced to enter Jerusalem, or to follow the will of the Father.

John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

Speaking of "forced"

Romans 6:18-20
New International Version (NIV)
18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.


Proverbs 16:9
New International Version (NIV)
9 In their hearts humans plan their course,
but the Lord establishes their steps.

Proverbs 20:24
New International Version (NIV)
24 A person’s steps are directed by the Lord.
How then can anyone understand their own way?