Free Will

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Is the attempt by some Christians to legislate their morality for everyone to follow anti-Christian?

Everyone likes to say that the reason God allows sin is so that people may have free will. Apparently God is all for free will, and the ability to make your own decisions. So, if Christians try to legislate their morals with such things as abortion or homosexuality, is this an attempt to take away people's free will? If so, isn't this going against God?

I guess the question comes down to this: Even if you may not agree with abortion or homosexual marriage, do you think that God would approve of Christian's attempts to not allow people to freely make these decisions, simply because they are anti-Christian, or do you think God would want these people to be able to make these decisions freely, without man trying to keep them from doing it?

 

[Gracchus]

There is no such thing as free will. Some folks believe there is, but they have to think that.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

There is no such thing as free will. Some folks believe there is, but they have to think that.

I don't believe in free will, but obviously Christians have to. This is more directed towards them.

 

[Marek]

Are you suggesting that laws against murder, rape, theft, etc. are anti-Christian? I feel that any member of a community should push for laws which they feel will make the community stronger as a whole, while maintaining each individual's proper rights. Whether or not this person is Christian should not matter.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Are you suggesting that laws against murder, rape, theft, etc. are anti-Christian? I feel that any member of a community should push for laws which they feel will make the community stronger as a whole, while maintaining each individual's proper rights. Whether or not this person is Christian should not matter.

The things you have mentioned have a secular reasoning behind them. I'm speaking more along the lines of laws that have a religious reasoning behind them.

If I am murdered, then harm has been done to me. This is the reason that murder is illegal. I Sam marries Billy, there is no harm done to me, or Billy, or anyone. This is simply illegal for a religious based moral reason, so that is what I am questioning. Certainly some laws need to be enacted for the safety of others. For a functioning society to work these laws must be in place. Other laws such as prostitution, abortion, and homosexuality are not laws that are based on the well being of others, but more of a moral stance. It's these laws that I am questioning.

 

[Marek]

The things you have mentioned have a secular reasoning behind them. I'm speaking more along the lines of laws that have a religious reasoning behind them.

If I am murdered, then harm has been done to me. This is the reason that murder is illegal. I Sam marries Billy, there is no harm done to me, or Billy, or anyone. This is simply illegal for a religious based moral reason, so that is what I am questioning. Certainly some laws need to be enacted for the safety of others. For a functioning society to work these laws must be in place. Other laws such as prostitution, abortion, and homosexuality are not laws that are based on the well being of others, but more of a moral stance. It's these laws that I am questioning.

Well, in that case, I don't think any laws should be created or disregarded based on religious teachings. That does not mean there should be no laws regarding prostitution, abortion, and (maybe) homosexuality. There are several non-religious arguments against these actions: arguments that show how these actions are a harm to society in general or the members of the particular society. I don't think Christians should push their religious laws onto others in a secular society.

 

[Gaston]

I don't believe in free will, but obviously Christians have to. This is more directed towards them.

LOL. Obviously Christians HAVE to? Are you serious?


I don't believe in free will.


Gaston

 

[superhawk007]

how can one not believe in free will. It is the right to choose. WIthout freewill you would not be able to choose.
as to laws. Certain laws where made because of what a majority of people feel it is the basis of democracy. If the "moral" majority says that dy8ng of thirst and starvation is euphoric this does not make it so.
Christians have a moral belief and they stand behind it. There is nothing wrong with wanting legislation passed that promotes your beliefs.
If you dont like the laws write your congress....

 

[Gracchus]

LOL. Obviously Christians HAVE to? Are you serious?

Of course. They have no choice in the matter.

I don't believe in free will.

Neither do you have a choice.

 

[Gracchus]

My philosophy professor refused to discuss free will. He said it gave him a headache.

 

[Eponine]

Is the attempt by some Christians to legislate their morality for everyone to follow anti-Christian?

Everyone likes to say that the reason God allows sin is so that people may have free will. Apparently God is all for free will, and the ability to make your own decisions. So, if Christians try to legislate their morals with such things as abortion or homosexuality, is this an attempt to take away people's free will? If so, isn't this going against God?

I guess the question comes down to this: Even if you may not agree with abortion or homosexual marriage, do you think that God would approve of Christian's attempts to not allow people to freely make these decisions, simply because they are anti-Christian, or do you think God would want these people to be able to make these decisions freely, without man trying to keep them from doing it?

*Shrugs* In my opinion, yes to the questions in the first paragraph. To answer the question in the second paragraph, no I don't think God approves of people imposing laws on others based purely on moral considerations. Yes, I think God would want these people to be able to make these decisions freely, otherwise the whole point of freely choosing to follow him has to be discarded. To put my $.02 in on the subject of fate vs. free will, I believe that we have a certain amount of free will, but that practicalities and the laws of nature seriously limit that free will.

 

[kedaman]

Is the attempt by some Christians to legislate their morality for everyone to follow anti-Christian?

Everyone likes to say that the reason God allows sin is so that people may have free will. Apparently God is all for free will, and the ability to make your own decisions. So, if Christians try to legislate their morals with such things as abortion or homosexuality, is this an attempt to take away people's free will? If so, isn't this going against God?

I guess the question comes down to this: Even if you may not agree with abortion or homosexual marriage, do you think that God would approve of Christian's attempts to not allow people to freely make these decisions, simply because they are anti-Christian, or do you think God would want these people to be able to make these decisions freely, without man trying to keep them from doing it?

God doesn't allow sin so that people may have free will, but because of love.
Also, legislation doesn't take away free will. It only makes us aware of what is right and what is wrong.

 

[Green Man]

There is no such thing as free will. Some folks believe there is, but they have to think that.

And how do you reach that conclusion?

 

[elman]

Is the attempt by some Christians to legislate their morality for everyone to follow anti-Christian?

Everyone likes to say that the reason God allows sin is so that people may have free will. Apparently God is all for free will, and the ability to make your own decisions. So, if Christians try to legislate their morals with such things as abortion or homosexuality, is this an attempt to take away people's free will? If so, isn't this going against God?

I guess the question comes down to this: Even if you may not agree with abortion or homosexual marriage, do you think that God would approve of Christian's attempts to not allow people to freely make these decisions, simply because they are anti-Christian, or do you think God would want these people to be able to make these decisions freely, without man trying to keep them from doing it?

Society needs to be protected from criminals and people that would harm the vulnerable. God would be and is in favor of that. It is the loving thing to do.

 

[elman]

There is no such thing as free will. Some folks believe there is, but they have to think that.

And who forced you to write that? Did you do it out of exercising your free will?

 

[elman]

The things you have mentioned have a secular reasoning behind them. I'm speaking more along the lines of laws that have a religious reasoning behind them.

If I am murdered, then harm has been done to me. This is the reason that murder is illegal. I Sam marries Billy, there is no harm done to me, or Billy, or anyone. This is simply illegal for a religious based moral reason, so that is what I am questioning. Certainly some laws need to be enacted for the safety of others. For a functioning society to work these laws must be in place. Other laws such as prostitution, abortion, and homosexuality are not laws that are based on the well being of others, but more of a moral stance. It's these laws that I am questioning.

I think you have a point that society needs some protection but perhaps we are getting overprotective. I really don't think we would be uneffected by a completely open society that allowed all drugs and prostitution and porn. It seems to me that the standard of living would be lowered for everyone in such a society over one that had some controls.

 

[Romany]

Is the attempt by some Christians to legislate their morality for everyone to follow anti-Christian?

Everyone likes to say that the reason God allows sin is so that people may have free will. Apparently God is all for free will, and the ability to make your own decisions. So, if Christians try to legislate their morals with such things as abortion or homosexuality, is this an attempt to take away people's free will? If so, isn't this going against God?

I guess the question comes down to this: Even if you may not agree with abortion or homosexual marriage, do you think that God would approve of Christian's attempts to not allow people to freely make these decisions, simply because they are anti-Christian, or do you think God would want these people to be able to make these decisions freely, without man trying to keep them from doing it?

That's so wierd, I was just thinking about the same thing a week ago and was considering starting a thread on it. It's a mystery to me too, I mean if God doesn't supress free-will, where do we get off doing it?

Romany

 

[Romany]

A couple of people have said that abortion/homosexual marriages don't harm other people, so why should there be laws against them?
In abortion, you're doing away with something that you know beyond reasonable doubt is going to become a life, aside from miscarriages---so isn't that murder?
And with homosexual marriages, the marriage itself does not harm another person; but marriage could possibly lead to laws for homosexual couples adopting of children; perhaps this imbalance of woman and man as parents could harm the childs natural development socially and mentally?
(This is just a suggestion as to why Christians pursue laws like the ones you mentioned, I'm not putting down homosexuals or anything)

Romany

 

[levi501]

Is the attempt by some Christians to legislate their morality for everyone to follow anti-Christian?

yes.

Everyone likes to say that the reason God allows sin is so that people may have free will. Apparently God is all for free will, and the ability to make your own decisions.

not all xians believe in freewill... nor do I think the belief in freewill is necessary for faith.

So, if Christians try to legislate their morals with such things as abortion or homosexuality, is this an attempt to take away people's free will? If so, isn't this going against God?

I guess the question comes down to this: Even if you may not agree with abortion or homosexual marriage, do you think that God would approve of Christian's attempts to not allow people to freely make these decisions, simply because they are anti-Christian, or do you think God would want these people to be able to make these decisions freely, without man trying to keep them from doing it?

yes, I think god would want the fundamental right of this country to mind their own business and work on the plank that's in their own eye.

If they can't find a secular/societal benefit to prohibiting an act... then I think it's against God for them to render/enforce their judgement of it.

 

[levi501]

And who forced you to write that? Did you do it out of exercising your free will?

no.
An infinite number causes of which he has no control over played in to him writing that.