I've been thinking about this a lot. I just don't get it. How is free will possible? Can someone explain it to me? Please provide your definition of free will first.
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Free Will?
- Thread starter bob135
- Start date
I'm currently writing a paper on this for my philosophy class which just happens to be due tomorrow, it's a 10 pager.
Free will - Having the ability to use the perceptual, cognitive, and emotional processes we engage in when confronted by a choice result in an intent to engage in certain actions or non-actions.
Taken from http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/freewill.html
The way Alvin Plantinga describes free will is through possible worlds, which I have found to be the most understandable argument for free will to me. I'll try to sum it up here, as simply as possible, if you wish me to elaborate and make things more clear I'll do so.
There's this idea of possible worlds (aka. parallel universes). Theres one were you dyed your hair green, one where we use the word up to describe what we know as down. There are infinitely many of these worlds. Now on to some lawn mowing.
If God knows in advance that Jones will mow his lawn, then Jones must mow his lawn, otherwise God believed something false, and God can't be wrong!!! Agh!!! Now take in to account the alternate existances, or other paths we could have taken. If God knows in advance that Jones will mow his lawn in this world, then will he mow his lawn in every world? Of course not. He'll mow in this one, but who is to say the actual course Jones takes isn't some other world. To say that Jones did do otherwise in some other world is to say he could have chosen to do otherwise. He had the ability to do so, and thus he has free will.
I'm not the best at explaining this particular theory, hopefully someone will clear this up for ya if I made myself very confusing. Honestly, thats all I have for you. You've hit the single most confusing topic in christian philosophy right here.
Free will - Having the ability to use the perceptual, cognitive, and emotional processes we engage in when confronted by a choice result in an intent to engage in certain actions or non-actions.
Taken from http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/freewill.html
The way Alvin Plantinga describes free will is through possible worlds, which I have found to be the most understandable argument for free will to me. I'll try to sum it up here, as simply as possible, if you wish me to elaborate and make things more clear I'll do so.
There's this idea of possible worlds (aka. parallel universes). Theres one were you dyed your hair green, one where we use the word up to describe what we know as down. There are infinitely many of these worlds. Now on to some lawn mowing.
If God knows in advance that Jones will mow his lawn, then Jones must mow his lawn, otherwise God believed something false, and God can't be wrong!!! Agh!!! Now take in to account the alternate existances, or other paths we could have taken. If God knows in advance that Jones will mow his lawn in this world, then will he mow his lawn in every world? Of course not. He'll mow in this one, but who is to say the actual course Jones takes isn't some other world. To say that Jones did do otherwise in some other world is to say he could have chosen to do otherwise. He had the ability to do so, and thus he has free will.
I'm not the best at explaining this particular theory, hopefully someone will clear this up for ya if I made myself very confusing. Honestly, thats all I have for you. You've hit the single most confusing topic in christian philosophy right here.
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I can choose to do anything that I want that is within my ability to do so with all the options I have available.bob135 said:
What I cannot choose, is the consequence or the reaction to the chosen action.
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Blackmarch said:
Free will is the ability to chose to love someone or to not love someone. How can you live in this world and not know you have the ability to make that choice?
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If you truly had free will, then you would have been able to choose to exist or not.
You can not deny the maker. You can not choose to deny that(He) which has made you. Not any easier than a fish swimming in the ocean can deny being wet.
You can not deny the maker. You can not choose to deny that(He) which has made you. Not any easier than a fish swimming in the ocean can deny being wet.
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Onesiphorus said:
I did not chose to be born, but that does not mean I do not have free will. God created the fish able to swim and He created you and me able to love and able to not love. I don't know that the fish has the ability to not swim so the analogy seems to break down at that point.
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I would have to disagree. Free will allows for freedom in any/all choices. You can not pick and choose which decisions apply to free will... you've just negated the concept of free will.elman said:
Did He create us with the ability to choose to exist without Him?elman said:
Hardly. I added the word swimming for descriptive purposes only. The word you should be focusing on is wet. Whether I fish can decide to swim or not is not my point... Can the fish decide not to be wet?elman said:
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Onesiphorus said:
Where did you get this rule that if I cannot chose to exist, I do not have the ability to chose to love or not love? Who made up the rule that we cannot have free will if we are not able to make all choices? Why is God not able to create me with the ability to love or not love and that be free will? Apparently we can exist physically temporarily without Him. What is your point?
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Uh, I kinda thought that was a given. If we are not able to make all choices, then we couldn't possibly have free will. Limited choices or limited types of choices means we are limiting "free will." Which is not really free will at all.elman said:
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The having the ability to choose between at least between 2 choices means you have free will, the lack of further choices would be an indication of suppression of free will, but you would still have free will
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Onesiphorus said:
Well it is not a given. Just because I don't have contol of everything does not mean I have control of nothing. Just because we cannot make all choices does not mean we don't have any choices. Limited free will is free will to the extent that we are able to make choices.
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QuePasa said:
God's knowledge has nothing to do with my having free will if God has given me free will. That He knows what I am going to chose does not negate the fact that the choice is mine if God gave me that ability. Parallel Universes are not needed.
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I thought that was your dilema, but I guess I'm wrong. I've had a one track mind all this week working on this paper.
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