Free will Question

[Andrewn]

I enjoyed reading your messages but still think there is a lot of similarity w/ Wesleyan Arminianism. They're not identical, but they are close enough; sometimes, using different expressions for similar ideas. As I'm getting more familiar with the Lutheran expressions, I like them better.

1. That the human race is truly redeemed and reconciled with God through Christ, who, by His faultless [innocency] obedience, suffering, and death, has merited for us the righteousness which avails before God, and eternal life.

Universal Atonement. I'm sure Arminians agree.

2. That such merit and benefits of Christ shall be presented, offered, and distributed to us through His Word and Sacraments.

3. That by His Holy Ghost, through the Word, when it is preached, heard, and pondered, He will be efficacious and active in us, convert hearts to true repentance, and preserve them in the true faith.

Similar to the Arminian Prevenient Grace.

4. That He will justify all those who in true repentance receive Christ by a true faith, and will receive them into grace, the adoption of sons, and the inheritance of eternal life.

Sounds like the Arminian Resistible Grace / synergistic conversion. We are not completely passive.

5. That He will also sanctify in love those who are thus justified, as St. Paul says, Eph. 1:4.

6. That He also will protect them in their great weakness against the devil, the world, and the flesh, and rule and lead them in His ways, raise them again [place His hand beneath them], when they stumble, comfort them under the cross and in temptation, and preserve them [for life eternal].

7. That He will also strengthen, increase, and support to the end the good work which He has begun in them, if they adhere to God’s Word, pray diligently, abide in God’s goodness [grace], and faithfully use the gifts received.

Sounds like Wesleyan theology.

8. That finally He will eternally save and glorify in life eternal those whom He has elected, called, and justified.

I like the fact that salvation is clearly stated as an ongoing process. This is not clearly expressed in Arminianism but is implied due to the possibility of falling from grace.


Clearly, Lutherans do not like the idea of Conditional election. But they don't like the Calvinist idea of Unconditional election, either. It seems that Lutherans leave the mechanism of election as a mystery expressed in accepting God's grace, which is wise.

Many people like to stress differences and divisions. By nature, I don't belong in this group and prefer to stress the similarity between categories.

Since the Formula of Concord is published before Arminianism came into the picture, perhaps Arminianism should be considered a modification of Lutheranism .

 

[ViaCrucis]

I enjoyed reading your messages but still think there is a lot of similarity w/ Wesleyan Arminianism. They're not identical, but they are close enough; sometimes, using different expressions for similar ideas. As I'm getting more familiar with the Lutheran expressions, I like them better.


Universal Atonement. I'm sure Arminians agree.


Similar to the Arminian Prevenient Grace.


Sounds like the Arminian Resistible Grace / synergistic conversion. We are not completely passive.


Sounds like Wesleyan theology.


I like the fact that salvation is clearly stated as an ongoing process. This is not clearly expressed in Arminianism but is implied due to the possibility of falling from grace.


Clearly, Lutherans do not like the idea of Conditional election. But they don't like the Calvinist idea of Unconditional election, either. It seems that Lutherans leave the mechanism of election as a mystery expressed in accepting God's grace, which is wise.

Many people like to stress differences and divisions. By nature, I don't belong in this group and prefer to stress the similarity between categories.

Since the Formula of Concord is published before Arminianism came into the picture, perhaps Arminianism should be considered a modification of Lutheranism .

There is an expression one will find in Lutheran circles, Crux Theologorum, the theologian's cross. There are places in Scripture which say one thing, and places in Scripture which say another.

The essence of it is that we take what Scripture says about predestination and election, we take what Scripture says about God's desire that all be saved, we take what Scripture says about that not all will be saved and simply affirm all these things without trying to make them all fit together neatly in a systematic way.

It is a cross for the theologian, because we simply have to say, "God has spoken, thanks be to God". It may not be possible for us to reconcile them in a tidy, rational theological box.

That is what ultimately leads us to reject both Calvinism and Arminianism. From the Lutheran POV both Calvinism and Arminianism are systematic theologies that attempted to systematize Scripture, but in doing so there are rejections or, at the very least, glosses over important biblical teaching.

Calvinism, for example, denies Universal Atonement and rejects the reality that one can fall away from the faith.
Arminianism, for example, denies Unconditional Election (something Lutherans do believe) and downplays Total Inability.

-CryptoLutheran