Free or not?

[jimmyjimmy]

Before I entertain any of your questions, first answer my questions purposed for the given thought experiment if you are going to respond to my post, please.

I am trying to.

 

[farran34]

I am trying to.

I mean directly answers these questions: Is Bob morally responsible for killing this innocent person and did he kill the person freely (using your standards for free will given above and not the libertarian standards)? Furthermore, to what point, if any, should the scientist be held morally accountable for the death of the innocent person

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I mean directly answers these questions: Is Bob morally responsible for killing this innocent person and did he kill the person freely (using your standards for free will given above and not the libertarian standards)? Furthermore, to what point, if any, should the scientist be held morally accountable for the death of the innocent person

I need to rewind a bit in order to answer, as your post is loaded. There are presuppositions which are incorrect, which is why you come to an incorrect conclusion.

If the prepositions aren't addressed one never has a chance to consider an opposing viewpoint.

 

[farran34]

I need to rewind a bit in order to answer, as your post is loaded. There are presuppositions which are incorrect, which is why you come to an incorrect conclusion.

If the prepositions aren't addressed one never has a chance to consider an opposing viewpoint.

I gave no conclusion so I am unsure as to what you mean...? What presuppositions are incorrect in the thought experiment as I have laid it out?

 

[Love4Truth]

1. When Adam and Eve were created, were they created with a nature predisposed to sin, i.e., a sin nature?
a. Yes. I believe they were created with the same nature we have but had not yet sinned. God looks on the heart and their hearts had not rebelled against God at this point so there was fellowship between them and God.

2. Were they created with a will, i.e., were they volition creatures upon creation?
a. They did have a will as we all do. However mans will is driven by his nature. Just as a dog is driven by their nature to chase cars and bark. Man’s nature, before salvation, is always self-serving to the physical. They do what they want to do with no regard to anyone or anything else.

3. If so, was that will free?
a. Again, man’s will is driven by their nature. Before salvation, it is free to choose in one direction only which is towards themselves and away from God.

4. If free, what types of choices were they able to make, e.g., sinful, not sinful, both, only one or the other, etc.?
a. Their choices would be the same as anyone’s choices at the time. If they thought it was good for them, they would do it, if not they wouldn’t. They were only given one rule to follow, the law, so there was nothing that would have been sinful except to eat the fruit of the tree of good and evil.

5. What influences, pre-Fall, would contribute to the choices they made.
a. Every influence that is common to man. 1 John 2:15 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

6. When Adam and Eve chose to rebell against God and were cast from the garden of Eden, did anything happen to change their constituent nature or did they remain the same?
a. I don’t think anything changed; their nature was just made evident in that they rebelled against God by disobeying His commands. At that point they died spiritually, death = separation, and were separated from the fellowship of God.

 

[GillDouglas]

When Adam and Eve were created, were they created with a nature predisposed to sin, i.e., a sin nature?

Not in the way you and I are born into a sinful nature, no. Adam and Eve were created with a nature capable of sin, and capable not to sin. Similar, but not exactly, like the spiritually discerning reborn Christian.

Were they created with a will, i.e., were they volition creatures upon creation?

Yes, a limited Free Will.

If so, was that will free?

Yes, but not autonomous. For it to be truly free, it must act from a posture of neutrality, with no bias or coercion, internal or external.

If free, what types of choices were they able to make, e.g., sinful, not sinful, both, only one or the other, etc.?

Limited Free Will choices within the boundaries of the Sovereign autonomous and supreme will of God.

What influences, pre-Fall, would contribute to the choices they made. When Adam and Eve chose to rebel against God and were cast from the garden of Eden, did anything happen to change their constituent nature or did they remain the same?

Choices are determined by our strongest desires, and made for a reason. When the serpent contradicted the Word of God, Eve questioned the truth of God's Word, and her desire to eat the fruit and gain the ability to 'be as God' became greater than her desire to be obedient to the Word of God.