Free Choice

[SoaringEagle]

someone said "only the ones Christ seeks to save will be be born again" or something to that effect. Scripture says He came to seek and save the lost. BUT ALL ARE LOST! God want's a family, wants many sons and daughters. So why wouldn't he get "as many as recieve Him" and give them the authority to become children of God?

 

[cygnusx1]

someone said "only the ones Christ seeks to save will be be born again" or something to that effect. Scripture says He came to seek and save the lost. BUT ALL ARE LOST! God want's a family, wants many sons and daughters. So why wouldn't he get "as many as recieve Him" and give them the authority to become children of God?

are all your desires of equal strength ???

 

[cygnusx1]

men are not compelled by force , they are compelled by LOVE!

in memory of Johnny Cash

Six-foot-six, he stood on the ground,
He weighed two hundred and thirty-five pounds,
But I saw that giant of a man brought down to his knees by love.

He was the kind of a man who would gamble on luck,
Look you in the eye and never back up,
But I saw him cryin' like a little whipped pup because of love.

• You can't see it with your eyes; hold it in your hand;
  But like the wind that covers our land;
  Strong enough to rule the heart of any man,
  This thing called love.
  It can lift you up; never let you down;
  Take your world and turn it all around.
  Ever since time nothing's ever been found,
  That's stronger than love.
  

Most men are like me, they struggle in doubt,
They trouble their minds, they in and they out,
Too busy with livin' to worry about a little word like love.
But when I see a mother's tenderness,
As she holds her young close to her breast,
Then I thank God that the world's been blessed,
With a thing called love.

• You can't see it with your eyes; hold it in your hand;
  But like the wind that covers our land;
  Strong enough to rule the heart of any man,
  This thing called love.
  It can lift you up; never let you down;
  Take your world and turn it all around.
  Ever since time nothing's ever been found,
  That's stronger than love.
  
  Ever since time nothing's ever been found,
  That's stronger than love.
  

 

[Philip dT]

Would you disagree that believers are a people of 2 natures then? I think I will better understand your position and how to respond if you answer this question. And I do again apologize for my tardiness in response. I have many things that require my attention and sometimes am unable to get back in a timely manner.

I think you either have a unborn or a reborn nature, not both. Believers still struggle with sin, but that is not because it is inherent to their nature, but because they are used to choice- and thinking patterns of old, and need allow God and His word to change that.

 

[mlqurgw]

I think you either have a unborn or a reborn nature, not both. Believers still struggle with sin, but that is not because it is inherent to their nature, but because they are used to choice- and thinking patterns of old, and need allow God and His word to change that.

So then we have a nature that is born of God that John says cannot sin(1John 3:9) but we still sin? That also goes against Pauls argument in Gal. 5:16,17. More than that it is a denial of experience. You place far too much dependance on man.

 

[Philip dT]

So then we have a nature that is born of God that John says cannot sin(1John 3:9) but we still sin? That also goes against Pauls argument in Gal. 5:16,17. More than that it is a denial of experience. You place far too much

dependance on man.

Not so. If one does not acknowledge the new creation of God in you, you diminish His work, as if the work of God of rebirth in you was not complete and not good enough - as if God was not able to do adequate surgery - as if God was not able to remove the cancer completely. By acknowledging God's work in me, I do not put any dependence on man, but in the complete work of God. Regarding 1 Joh 3:9; this text confirms the fact that God's work of rebirth is complete. By saying "we cannot sin," John confirms that according to our new nature, we are sinless in principle . We still sin, but not out of a position of being sold to sin (Rom 7:14) - as is the case with the unborn person. John differentiate between two kinds of sin: sin that leads to death and sin that does not lead to death (1 Joh 5:16,17).



1) Sin unto death: sinning from an unborn position. Sinning or not sinning from this position does not change the fact that this person remains an ultimate sinner and is destined for eternal condemnation and punishment.

2) Sin not unto death: sinning from a reborn position. Sinning does not disqualify this person from being principally pardoned and cleansed from sin. Even though he sins, his sins are forgiven and do not make him an ultimate sinner. He remains a saint even though he sins. In this sense he can not sin (as 1 Joh 3:9) says.



For what is sin ultimately? Not bad deeds here and there. It is being in an unborn state and being alienated from God.



Regarding Gal 5:16,17:

The Greek “sarks” has various meanings:



Thayer Definition:

1) flesh (the soft substance of the living body, which covers the bones and is permeated with blood) of both man and beasts

2) the body

2a) the body of a man

2b) used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship

2b1) born of natural generation

2c) the sensuous nature of man, “the animal nature”

2c1) without any suggestion of depravity

2c2) the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin

2c3) the physical nature of man as subject to suffering

3) a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast

4) the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God



These different meanings are demonstrated by the following verses:



1 Joh 4:2 “By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God;”

Here, “sarks” cannot mean “sinful nature” for Christ does not have one. It rather means “human body” or “bodily form” here.

Eph 6:12 “For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the world's rulers, of the darkness of this age, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

“Sarks” here means a human or bodily person.

Col 2:11 “in whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ,”



Here, body of the sins of the “sarks” here means the “human nature” or the “old man” that has been put off.

Rom 8:9 “But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.”

Here, the same meaning of “sarks” is even clearer. Here, flesh cannot mean human body, it means “old human nature.”

Gal 2:20 “I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And that life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith toward the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself on my behalf.”

Which part of “I” has been crucified with Christ and NO LONGER LIVES? Clearly the human nature, the old man. The “sarks” here refers to the human bodily existence.

Phi 1:22 “But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labor. Yet I do not know what I shall choose.”

The “sarks” here also refers to the human bodily existence.

Eph 2:1-6 “And He has made you alive, who were once dead in trespasses and sins, (2) in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience; (3) among whom we also had our way of life in times past, in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. (4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us (5) (even when we were dead in sins) has made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are saved), (6) and has raised us up together and made us sit together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,”

Here, “sarks” refers to the human nature – the “way of life in times past” where “by nature” he was a “child of wrath” and “were dead in sins.” But he has been made alive (in spirit – recreated – a new creation) together with Christ. He is NO LONGER in the state of the old man.

To get back to Gal 5:16,17; in Gal 5:16,17, “sarks” also refers to “sinful nature”. It sets forth the principle of the sinful human nature and the Spirit which is opposed to one another. It does not say “your flesh” as if the “sinful nature” is a part of the believer. In fact, verse 24 says: “But those belonging to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.” It confirms to the believer that he cannot live according to the old patterns and lusts of the “old man.”

Cf. Rom 6:1-2 “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? (2) Let it not be! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

The struggle to resist sin is not in ‘n spiritual dimension, it is not ontological, but in the realm of the soul and body (will, mind emotions).

See eg. Rom 6:11 “Likewise reckon (in the mind/will) ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”