Fred Phelps

[trinityisunity]

Sorry, I do not understand the "Good night, Chet and David" remark??? It must be an American thing- I am from the land Down Under.

I was not trying to attack your post or any other posts 'vigorously'. I was just wanting to know the reason behind your reference to the Apocalypse of Peter.
Grace and peace

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

(Good night Chet and David comes from a US news program.)

I too am not trying to make personal attacks on posts, just on the illogic in statements made. I see now that the source being quoted is not from the Bible, and I was discussing only what it says in the Bible. It doesn't matter to me which books barely made it into the canon, and which books have been left out by a hair, the point is that some books are in the Bible and some are not.

And since it is no longer a discussion on what the Bible says in light of Fred Phelps' attitude, I will excuse myself from further debate. Peace all around.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Sorry, I do not understand the "Good night, Chet and David" remark??? It must be an American thing- I am from the land Down Under.

Please see this article for an explanation,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0275133/

I was not trying to attack your post or any other posts 'vigorously'. I was just wanting to know the reason behind your reference to the Apocalypse of Peter.

Yes, I know that. You entirely missed the point that I was making in the sentence about attacking my posts. It must be an American thing rather than an Aussie thing.

 

[trinityisunity]

Please see this article for an explanation,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0275133/

I get it now!

Yes, I know that. You entirely missed the point that I was making in the sentence about attacking my posts. It must be an American thing rather than an Aussie thing.

That's cool, I miss the point on alot of things.

 

[DeaconDean]

Homosexuality is different from most sins in that it is a life-controlling sin that has an extremely tenacious grasp upon those enslaved to it, and breaking that grasp usually requires the aggressive help of the pastor and the congregation in the form of the outpouring of genuine love and affection, understanding, and forgiveness while never for the briefest moment tolerating the sin itself.

You know, I said to myself that I was just going to walk away and leave this thread alone, but for a week now, God has laid this on my heart and I have to answer.

What a weak God you serve.

My Bible tells me that the God I serve brought the entire creation into being with just a word. That He was able to take a handful of dust, mold it into the shape of a man, breath life into it and it became a living soul. The same God who manifested Himself in the form of a man and made the lame to walk, the blind to see, raised the dead after four days in the grave with absolutely no smell of decay on him. Who healed with a word the Centurion's servant. Who with just a touch from a woman, healed her "issue of blood."

If God can do all this, and take a drunk and drug addict like me and cure them, why would God need any help from a pastor or congregation?

What a weak and impetent God some people serve. I'm terribly sorry, but that is just the way it is sounding to me.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

“Homosexuality is different from most sins in that it is a life-controlling sin that has an extremely tenacious grasp upon those enslaved to it, and breaking that grasp usually requires the aggressive help of the pastor and the congregation in the form of the outpouring of genuine love and affection, understanding, and forgiveness while never for the briefest moment tolerating the sin itself.”
You know, I said to myself that I was just going to walk away and leave this thread alone, but for a week now, God has laid this on my heart and I have to answer.

What a weak God you serve.

My Bible tells me that the God I serve brought the entire creation into being with just a word. That He was able to take a handful of dust, mold it into the shape of a man, breath life into it and it became a living soul. The same God who manifested Himself in the form of a man and made the lame to walk, the blind to see, raised the dead after four days in the grave with absolutely no smell of decay on him. Who healed with a word the Centurion's servant. Who with just a touch from a woman, healed her "issue of blood."

If God can do all this, and take a drunk and drug addict like me and cure them, why would God need any help from a pastor or congregation?

What a weak and impetent God some people serve. I'm terribly sorry, but that is just the way it is sounding to me.

God Bless

Till all are one.

​

Last edited by DeaconDean; 7th June 2008 at 11:13 PM.

I find it very unfortunate that you find the God that I serve to be “weak and impotent” just because He does not always do things in the manner that you believe He should. God is mighty and awesome and He uses His body, the body of Christ, to accomplish much of what He is accomplishing today. I thank God that He took “a drunk and drug addict like [you]” and cured you, and I believe that in all likelihood He used a member of His body to minister His word to you and other members of His body to pray for you and yet other members of His body to encourage you and strengthen you. That was not a display of God’s weakness and impotence—that was a display of His pure and genuine for you, and a demonstration of His ability to minister to you through His people—people who had been dead in their trespasses and sins but who, through His power, might, glory and grace became living vessels of His divine love for you.

1 Cor.12:12. For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
14. For the body is not one member, but many.
15. If the foot says, "Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.
16. And if the ear says, "Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.
17. If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be?
18. But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired.
19. If they were all one member, where would the body be?
20. But now there are many members, but one body.
21. And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; or again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you."
22. On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary;
23. and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable,
24. whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked,
25. so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.
26. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. (NASB, 1995)

Psalm 150:1. Praise the LORD! Praise God in His sanctuary; Praise Him in His mighty expanse.
2. Praise Him for His mighty deeds; Praise Him according to His excellent greatness.
3. Praise Him with trumpet sound; Praise Him with harp and lyre.
4. Praise Him with timbrel and dancing; Praise Him with stringed instruments and pipe.
5. Praise Him with loud cymbals; Praise Him with resounding cymbals.
6. Let everything that has breath praise the LORD. Praise the LORD! (NASB, 1995)

 

[FreeinChrist]

Again, I beg to differ.

According to the Law of Moses as given by God, both homosexuality and beastiality were equal. Both were to be dealt with in the exact same manner:

"For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people." -Lev. 18:29 (KJV)

"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him...If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them...And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast. And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." -Lev. 20:9, 13, 15-16 (KJV)

The penality for homosexuality and beastiality as well as adultry and cursing your parents was the same! Death!

One sin was not more grevious than another for they all warrant death.

"For the wages of sin is death;" -Rom. 6:3 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.

Amen!

Fred Phelps rails on homosexuals, yet his hatred and treatment of others is sinful as well.

Micah 6:8 comes to mind:
Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what [is] good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

I don't get the sense that Phelps loves mercy and humility is a problem for him.

 

[FreeinChrist]

You know, I said to myself that I was just going to walk away and leave this thread alone, but for a week now, God has laid this on my heart and I have to answer.

What a weak God you serve.

My Bible tells me that the God I serve brought the entire creation into being with just a word. That He was able to take a handful of dust, mold it into the shape of a man, breath life into it and it became a living soul. The same God who manifested Himself in the form of a man and made the lame to walk, the blind to see, raised the dead after four days in the grave with absolutely no smell of decay on him. Who healed with a word the Centurion's servant. Who with just a touch from a woman, healed her "issue of blood."

If God can do all this, and take a drunk and drug addict like me and cure them, why would God need any help from a pastor or congregation?

What a weak and impetent God some people serve. I'm terribly sorry, but that is just the way it is sounding to me.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I agree that God can do it Himself and does not need pastors or congregations and have known some who were cured immediately of their alcoholism while others struggled. I think God uses pastors and congregations though for the benefit of other members of the congregation and for the pastor's benefit.

And I don't necessarily see a requirement for a homosexual to turn hetero - just to learn to control his own sexuality and not indulge.

For all of the railing against homosexuals, the sins committed by heterosexuals in regards to adultery, premarital sex, pornography as just as bad.

 

[TwistTim]

I agree that God can do it Himself and does not need pastors or congregations and have known some who were cured immediately of their alcoholism while others struggled. I think God uses pastors and congregations though for the benefit of other members of the congregation and for the pastor's benefit.

And I don't necessarily see a requirement for a homosexual to turn hetero - just to learn to control his own sexuality and not indulge.

For all of the railing against homosexuals, the sins committed by heterosexuals in regards to adultery, premarital sex, pornography as just as bad.

Do they need to become Hetero and sin Hetero sins? by no means.... but they do need to do more than just control their sexuality..... unless I misunderstand, your suggesting it's ok to be queer as long as you don't practice it, but you can still fantasize about it? that doesn't seem right.... it just seems like you are telling them to not do the act only.... unless I misunderstand and forgive me if I do... I want clarity......

 

[FreeinChrist]

Do they need to become Hetero and sin Hetero sins? by no means.... but they do need to do more than just control their sexuality..... unless I misunderstand, your suggesting it's ok to be queer as long as you don't practice it, but you can still fantasize about it? that doesn't seem right.... it just seems like you are telling them to not do the act only.... unless I misunderstand and forgive me if I do... I want clarity......

I never said they need to become hetero and sin hetero sins. ...and I never said it was okay to fantasize about it. I am saying that they may be gay but they cannot act on it - and fantasizing is acting on it in thought if not in deed. Didn't Jesus say that if one lusts, it is like actually doing the sin?
Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';
Mat 5:28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

And Paul wrote: 1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; {that is,} that you abstain from sexual immorality;
1Th 4:4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,
1Th 4:5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God;


So it is wrong for gay folks to indulge in immoral fantasies and it is wrong for straight folks to indulge in immoral fantasies.
It is wrong for gay folks to indulge in pornagraphy and it is wrong for straight folks to indulge in pornography.
It is wrong for gays to engage in immoral sex, and it is wrong for straight folks to engage in immoral sex (adultery, etc).

Anything that hinders our sanctification is a problem.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Phelps was first arrested in 1951 and found guilty of misdemeanor battery after attacking a Pasadena police officer. He has since been arrested for assault, battery, threats, trespassing, disorderly conduct, contempt of court, and several other charges; each time, he (along with Westboro and its other members) has filed suit against the city, the police, and the arresting officers. Though he has been able to avoid prison time, he has been convicted more than once:[50][51][52]

1994: Contempt of court[50]
1994: Two counts of assault (reduced to disorderly conduct on appeal)[51]
Phelps' 1995 conviction for assault and battery carried a five-year prison sentence, with a mandatory 18 months to be served before he became eligible for parole. Phelps fought to be allowed to remain free until his appeals process went through. Days away from being arrested and sent to prison, a judge ruled that Phelps had been denied a speedy trial and that he was not required to serve any time.[51][52]
-wiki