Fred Phelps

[trinityisunity]

That is a Perverted Calvinism. "God saves a few to prove his love. decided to make the other souls so they would go straight to hell to prove his greatness. This is all without consent of your knowing, if you are saved, you are, if not, have a nice hell." For a Truer understanding of Calvinism.... go look at the Wiki page.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism

and a lot of Modern Reformers hold to Monergism....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monergism

(Not reality, Hypothetical Scenario's to follow)
Let's say I was beat up by a Catholic as a kid, would that give me the right to go around condeming all Catholics as Violent People?
Or I was once served a Bad Hamburger and got food poisoning thanks to a man who was openly having an affair..... would that be justification for going on the war path against Affairs?

no, while I don't believe Catholics teach true Doctrine.... and while Adultery is clearly a sin that God majorly condemns (it's in the 10 Commandments after all)..... I have no right to condemn a whole group because of the actions of a select few....

it is a fine line to walk between showing the world their sins and false doctrines and condemning the rest of the world to hell because they are not already as they should be.... we need to be careful we never get so bogged down in legalism we do that, or we are no better.....
I saw this fully aware, I myself am not innocent of this practice.....

Sounds like 'Double Predestination'- The perverted Calvinism that is.

 

[Natural1]

I beg to differ. That's not pretty cool. Fred Phelps' hatred of homosexuals is disgusting and unbiblical. I believe the Bible when it says that homosexuality is a sin. I will be the first to say that homosexual pastors and other unrepentant homosexuals should be put out of the church until they give up their sin, and that the church should stand firmly against homosexual "marriage." I also believe the Bible when it commands us to love sinners. If you are washed by the blood of Jesus Christ, then how can you say that you are any better than a homosexual sinner? If you or I are no better than a homosexual, then preaching hatred towards a homosexual cannot be tolerated.

Any pastor who preaches hatred of men made in the image of God should be put out of the church. Fred Phelps isn't a Christian. His hateful doctrine ought not to even be entertained on this forum.

You said it all. Reactionary lunatics like Phelps do the devil's work by moving more people away from God & Christianity when they act this way, than bring them closer to God. He's especially dangerous in a time more & more people are becoming secular, especially in the US.

 

[Armistead]

My guess is the whole family is atheist and it's always been a stunt for him. He probably makes a living off the attention. I would hope most could see through his tactics. Just another idiot using God to get attention.

As an atheist, some will resort to this behavior to make Christianity look bad, thus using the name "Baptist."

It's all a sad stunt and sadly people pay attention to it.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

You said it all. Reactionary lunatics like Phelps do the devil's work by moving more people away from God & Christianity when they act this way, than bring them closer to God. He's especially dangerous in a time more & more people are becoming secular, especially in the US.

My guess is the whole family is atheist and it's always been a stunt for him. He probably makes a living off the attention. I would hope most could see through his tactics. Just another idiot using God to get attention.

As an atheist, some will resort to this behavior to make Christianity look bad, thus using the name "Baptist."

It's all a sad stunt and sadly people pay attention to it.

Is Phelps a reactionary lunatic or a mocking atheist posing as a Baptist? I don't know. He could plausibly be either one, but either way he's bad news.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Runs West Borrow Baptist Church.I see him on TV sometimes and he preaches hate towards homosexuals. I think thats pretty cool, but he says god loves only some people and he doesn't just preach hate against homosexuals because he also hates Amish, soldiers,America, Goths, Sweden, Ireland and the UN.His church is made up mostly of his family and they've done like 40,000 protests at funerals and on the street.He talks about everybody is doomed and how he wants god to kill everybody with AIDS and floods.If you ask me he hates a little to much and has weird ideas, but its good he stands up against the homosexuals.The church is like independent, but they call themselves Baptist so what do you think about them and Phelps.

The teachings of Fred Phelps and his church are hardcore Calvinism, a system of theological beliefs that are at variance with Biblical theology on very many points; five exceptionally serious ones are known as the Five Points of Calvinism. The hatred for which Fred Phelps and his church are famous stems from the concept that all of mankind, from the beginning of creation, is made up of two distinct groups—the elect of God and the non-elect. In the Old Testament, the non-elect persons (men, women and children) are depicted as evil creatures to be utterly destroyed by the elect of God. In the New Testament, the elect are chosen for salvation, leaving the non-elect destined for eternal damnation in the fires of hell. Calvin taught that the election and non-election of all persons was determined before they were born, and that the election is irreversible. It logically follows from this that God has hated the non-elect from their birth, and that He has loved the elect from their birth, and that we, as Christians, should hate those whom God hates and love those whom God loves. Fred Phelps and his church practice what they believe the Bible teaches.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

The teachings of Fred Phelps and his church are hardcore Calvinism, a system of theological beliefs that are at variance with Biblical theology on very many points; five exceptionally serious ones are known as the Five Points of Calvinism. The hatred for which Fred Phelps and his church are famous stems from the concept that all of mankind, from the beginning of creation, is made up of two distinct groups—the elect of God and the non-elect. In the Old Testament, the non-elect persons (men, women and children) are depicted as evil creatures to be utterly destroyed by the elect of God. In the New Testament, the elect are chosen for salvation, leaving the non-elect destined for eternal damnation in the fires of hell. Calvin taught that the election and non-election of all persons was determined before they were born, and that the election is irreversible. It logically follows from this that God has hated the non-elect from their birth, and that He has loved the elect from their birth, and that we, as Christians, should hate those whom God hates and love those whom God loves. Fred Phelps and his church practice what they believe the Bible teaches.

Phelps might be a Calvinist, but that doesn't excuse him. There are plenty of other Calvinists who don't go off the deep end the way he does. Indeed, I've never heard of another Calvinist who took it that far.

 

[shrewdsnake]

There is a special place in Hell I hope for those who profess to love Christ and treat others with such an un-Christian heart. I have spent a lot of time search the Bible for what I should think of homosexuality. It's in the law but so is plenty of stuff we Christians say it's ok to do or not do based on Christ freeing us from the law.

I finally arrived at is that if we are freed from the law we are freed from the law. God obviously didn't feel homosexuality warranted mention in the 10 Commandments which most Christians break without conscious on a regular basis.

We all get what's coming to us and Phelps is no exception.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

There is a special place in Hell I hope for those who profess to love Christ and treat others with such an un-Christian heart. I have spent a lot of time search the Bible for what I should think of homosexuality. It's in the law but so is plenty of stuff we Christians say it's ok to do or not do based on Christ freeing us from the law.

I finally arrived at is that if we are freed from the law we are freed from the law. God obviously didn't feel homosexuality warranted mention in the 10 Commandments which most Christians break without conscious on a regular basis.

We all get what's coming to us and Phelps is no exception.

It is true that we as Christians have died to the Law in the death of Christ. It is also true, however, that homosexual behavior is condemned as a damnable sin under the covenant of grace in the New Testament.

Rom. 1:18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19. because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
21. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22. Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23. and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
24. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
25. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27. and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
29. being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
30. slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
31. without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
32. and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

1 Cor. 6:9. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10. nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. (NASB, 1995)

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I could argue with the translation and interpretation of those passages, but I won't out of respect for another denomination's home forum.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

It is true that we as Christians have died to the Law in the death of Christ. It is also true, however, that homosexual behavior is condemned as a damnable sin under the covenant of grace in the New Testament.(snipped for space)

Since the original topic is the actions and attitudes of Fred Phelps, I hope you're not insinuating that he is dealing correctly with the sin of homosexual behavior.

 

[ladyt28]

We should all pray for this man's eyes to be open so he has a chance to repent what he has taught and to quit leading others astray.

 

[shrewdsnake]

First, it really bothers me that a board full of forums for interfaith discussion has those who are not Baptist posting. Second, anyone who thinks that homosexuality is some special sin is not reading their Bible correctly. Neither God nor Christ ever make it a special sin or unforgivable. It amazes me how many Christians cherry pick it to be so awful, I imagine because it's one they manage not to do. It really dishonors Christ.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

First, it really bothers me that a board full of forums for interfaith discussion has those who are not Baptist posting.

Well, this is the Baptist forum we're posting in. Every major denomination gets a home forum, and on most of them, debate by non-members of that denomination isn't welcomed. That's legit; people deserve one island of relative tranquility in the sometimes stormy sea that is CF.

Second, anyone who thinks that homosexuality is some special sin is not reading their Bible correctly. Neither God nor Christ ever make it a special sin or unforgivable. It amazes me how many Christians cherry pick it to be so awful, I imagine because it's one they manage not to do. It really dishonors Christ.

I'm with you on this one.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

First, it really bothers me that a board full of forums for interfaith discussion has those who are not Baptist posting.

I don't claim any special denomination. I go where the Bible is preached, God's love is demonstrated, and His presence is known. Currently I do attend a Baptist church, and it so happens that as a child I was saved in one. I'm assuming that these things qualify me to post in the Baptist forum.

Second, anyone who thinks that homosexuality is some special sin is not reading their Bible correctly. Neither God nor Christ ever make it a special sin or unforgivable.

You're absolutely right here. It's one sin among many, and a spirit of hate is another one!

It amazes me how many Christians cherry pick it to be so awful, I imagine because it's one they manage not to do.

You're saying people are more judgmental and less understanding when it is a sin that they in particular are not tempted by. But if someone leans toward another sin besides homosexuality--say, theft--they want to justify it. You have a valid point. My mother was once married to a man who shoplifted and taught us to do the same. "The Lord understands; He knows we're hungry." Barf. Theft is theft.

At the same time, there are also those who scream loudest about a certain sin because they ARE so tempted by it. They are preaching to themselves, really. It's like the all-too-common scandal of a preacher who has always come down hard on infidelity, and ends up caught with the church secretary.

It really dishonors Christ.

Yes, it does. If Christ were in the flesh today, he would hang out with the gays just as he hung out with thieves and prostitutes back then. "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick," He explained in Matthew 9:12, and He would do the same today.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Phelps might be a Calvinist, but that doesn't excuse him. There are plenty of other Calvinists who don't go off the deep end the way he does. Indeed, I've never heard of another Calvinist who took it that far.

I agree. The same hate can be seen in nonCalvinists - it really has nothing to do with Calvinism. Phelps is just giving Baptists and Calvinists a black eye with his actions

 

[DeaconDean]

It is true that we as Christians have died to the Law in the death of Christ. It is also true, however, that homosexual behavior is condemned as a damnable sin under the covenant of grace in the New Testament.

You know, this is truely sad.

I have known some homosexuals who have repented of thier sin, and are living a good Christian life now. And its truly sad that had these individuals gone to the Westboro Church, they would have been run out of the church and damned to hell by the Rev. Fred Phelps.

Why are we setting "homosexuality" above all other sins as a "damnable" sin?

I thought stealing a penny, or a single piece of bubble gum was just the same, a "damnable" sin?

And I really don't know of any "Calvinist" preacher who has protested the returning veterans like this man has.

Shame, darn shame.

Sue, you are right, this man gives Baptists and Calvinists a black eye.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[MrJim]

Sue, you are right, this man gives Baptists and Calvinists a black eye.

God Bless

Till all are one.

As long as faithful Baptists & Calvinists stand up against him the "black eye" will be minimal.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Since the original topic is the actions and attitudes of Fred Phelps, I hope you're not insinuating that he is dealing correctly with the sin of homosexual behavior.

In Romans chapter one, Paul cites homosexual behavior as the ultimate example of the depravity that results from suppressing the truth in unrighteousness and exchanging the truth of God for a lie, thus showing that the sin of homosexuality is a horribly abominable and despicable sin. Fred Phelps deals with this sin and the doers of this sin in accord with the teachings of John Calvin. Most Calvinists today soften the teachings of Calvin to some degree, some of them to the point that they not only tolerate the sin of homosexuality but judge it not to be a sin at all. And it is not only some Calvinists who are taking this very new and unbiblical stance, but some Christians in many denominations—indeed, that is the current trend of the Church as a whole.

I believe that Fred Phelps is utterly disgusted with this trend that he sees in the Church and in the whole of the United States and that he is attacking the trend with a vengeance. I too am utterly disgusted with this trend, but I personally disagree with much of the methodology employed by Fred Phelps and his church. During the years that I served as the senior pastor of a church, I learned that loving others with the love of Christ (and I mean here the TRUE of Christ and not some radically distorted form of it) is the most effective way of manifesting to the sinner that they are sinners and that Christ is the answer to their sin. Homosexuality is different from most sins in that it is a life-controlling sin that has an extremely tenacious grasp upon those enslaved to it, and breaking that grasp usually requires the aggressive help of the pastor and the congregation in the form of the outpouring of genuine love and affection, understanding, and forgiveness while never for the briefest moment tolerating the sin itself.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

.

 

[DeaconDean]

Homosexuality is different from most sins in that it is a life-controlling sin that has an extremely tenacious grasp upon those enslaved to it, and breaking that grasp usually requires the aggressive help of the pastor and the congregation in the form of the outpouring of genuine love and affection, understanding, and forgiveness while never for the briefest moment tolerating the sin itself.

To a certain point I would agree. But, setting one sin above all others isn't found in the Bible.

Sin, a transgression of God's will and law.

"...for sin is the transgression of the law." -1 Jn. 3:4 (KJV)

So to say that "homosexuality" is:

Homosexuality is different from most sins in that it is a life-controlling sin that has an extremely tenacious grasp upon those enslaved to it,

Is to say that being a drug addict, risking the spread of AIDS, as well as the other stuff that can come from it, and to say that "homosexuality" is harder to "cure" than that of the person hooked on heroin, is wrong friend.

How many people are in prison because they are "habitual" homosexuals?

How many people are in prison because they are "habitual" murders, or rapists, or thieves, drug addicts?

In God's grand scheme, there is no difference between the homosexual and the person who tells a simple "white lie."

Granted. Lev. 18 says that "homosexuality" is an abomination, but what ultimately sends a person to the lake of fire?

Homosexuality? Stealing? Lying? Killing? Greed?

The book of Hebrews says:

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us," -Heb. 12:1 (KJV)

Any sin can be a "sin that easily besets us."

God Bless

Till all are one.