Fossil Record Observation

[lasthero]

There would be none in terms of fossils etc. it is after the flood.

Fossils can and do develop outside of flood conditions. Tar pits, as an example.

But a point to note is we do see big cats and canines in tundra regions.

So? Big cats and dogs are found all over the world. Besides, you're not just talking about cats and dogs, but all predators. There's no evidence of any massive northern migration of animals.

 

[Cearbhall]

I went away and read up on the anatomy of the pterosaur https://pterosaur.net/flight.php and it seems due to thier size and wing span they need to use all four limbs to take flight. It is highly likely in a sediment filled flood water it would be unable to take off. It needs to forcefully push down in a springboard action to start flight. In muddy flood waters it would not be able to do this.

What flood waters?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Assuming that all pterosaurs started o the ground when it began raining - which sounds like a stupid thing to assume, but okay - on what do you base the likelihood that pterosaurs would have trouble jumping in slightly muddy water? Any tests? Any data? Anything at all?

Because, frankly, it comes off like you're just grasping at straws.

The pterosaur died at the time the dinosaurs did at this point the flood waters are not slightly shallow, they are in fact quite deep. If you have a chance read that article on thier ability to fly. You can make up your own mind. As for already flying ones they may well have remained alive above the flood waters. Once the flood waters were deep they would unlikely even if they died be engulfed in sediment.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Fossils can and do develop outside of flood conditions. Tar pits, as an example.



So? Big cats and dogs are found all over the world. Besides, you're not just talking about cats and dogs, but all predators. There's no evidence of any massive northern migration of animals.

Why would you expect to see one. In a young earth theory we are only talking about 1000 of years, in that time the meat eaters would have initially moved north then migrated back as heards and other food sources built up. But I will do some research to see if their is any evidence.

 

[Cearbhall]

The pterosaur died at the time the dinosaurs did at this point the flood waters are not slightly shallow, they are in fact quite deep.

What evidence do you have of floodwaters 65 million years ago?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

So? Big cats and dogs are found all over the world. Besides, you're not just talking about cats and dogs, but all predators. There's no evidence of any massive northern migration of animals.

Lucky you guys get me to research. There is evidence of this migration. In the past there were very big cats much larger than the ones we have today. Obviously the bigger the cat the more food it needs. It was said these cats lived at the same time as man. And it is said they all died during the ice age. They died in icy environments. Why would massive cats prefer ice to the lush plains of the tropics only one reason there was more food in the ice. http://listverse.com/2010/12/02/10-huge-prehistoric-cats/

 

[lasthero]

The pterosaur died at the time the dinosaurs did at this point the flood waters are not slightly shallow, they are in fact quite deep. If you have a chance read that article on thier ability to fly.

I read it. There wasn't anything to suggest that muddy waters would stop them from flying.

You can make up your own mind. As for already flying ones they may well have remained alive above the flood waters. Once the flood waters were deep they would unlikely even if they died be engulfed in sediment.

Unlikely...based on what?

Why would you expect to see one. In a young earth theory we are only talking about 1000 of years, in that time the meat eaters would have initially moved north then migrated back as heards and other food sources built up. But I will do some research to see if their is any evidence.

Because animals leave evidence where they go. We can track migration of animals in the past. And there is nothing to suggest that, at any point, all the carnivores moved up north to eat thawing, frozen carcasses. Animals have never been observed to behave like that.

Lucky you guys get me to research. There is evidence of this migration. In the past there were very big cats much larger than the ones we have today. Obviously the bigger the cat the more food it needs. It was said these cats lived at the same time as man. And it is said they all died during the ice age. They died in icy environments. Why would massive cats prefer ice to the lush plains of the tropics only one reason there was more food in the ice. http://listverse.com/2010/12/02/10-huge-prehistoric-cats/

Even during the ice age, the planet wasn't covered in ice, and there's no evidence they died because of the cold. Even today, there are plenty of big cats and carnivores living in icy environments. Polar bears, snow leopards, et centers. You can find carnivores in all sorts of environments.

Do you really not see how desperate this is getting ?

 

[Cearbhall]

You have entirely missed my point I am talking post flood. When the animals came out of the ark. Frozen areas to the North would preserve food sources... Like putting your meat in the freezer does. I am saying for a time after the flood Carnivora would have migrated north, to get food.

Where/when do you believe they came out of the ark? What time span and present-day location?

Lucky you guys get me to research. There is evidence of this migration.

From where to where? And when?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I read it. There wasn't anything to suggest that muddy waters would stop them from flying.

Due to their weight distribution they needed all four limbs to create a spring action. In mud filled waters, how would they create this action. The four limbs are pushing aganst what?


Unlikely...based on what?

Because animals leave evidence where they go. We can track migration of animals in the past. And there is nothing to suggest that, at any point, all the carnivores moved up north to eat thawing, frozen carcasses. Animals have never been observed to behave like that.

But like I showed there is evidence large carnivores were in colder regions. Why then did scientist say they died during the ice age if it was not significantly colder.

Even during the ice age, the planet wasn't covered in ice, and there's no evidence they died because of the cold. Even today, there are plenty of big cats and carnivores living in icy environments. Polar bears, snow leopards, et centers. You can find carnivores in all sorts of environments.

My point is not that the cold killed them. My point was that the after flood food source meat, could have been preserved in the icy environment. Previously I stated carnivores would have been led to colder regions due the the longivity of the food source. Less rot in frozen carcasses, deposited by the flood. Their death was probably due to reduction in food supply. Killing off the big cats with higher diary needs and leaving the small ones alive.

 

[lasthero]

Due to their weight distribution they needed all four limbs to create a spring action. In mud filled waters, how would they create this action. The four limbs are pushing aganst what?

...the ground.

Have you never stepped in mud? Does it make you incapable of jumping? It's not quicksand.

But like I showed there is evidence large carnivores were in colder regions.

Which nobody is denying. There's a bit of a difference between that and saying ALL PREDATORS WERE IN THE NORTH.

Why then did scientist say they died during the ice age if it was not significantly colder.

I'm not saying it wasn't colder, but it's not like animals can't live in cold climates.

My point is not that the cold killed them. My point was that the after flood food source meat, could have been preserved in the icy environment.

And the animals thawed out the frozen meat how?

Previously I stated carnivores would have been led to colder regions due the the longivity of the food source. Less rot in frozen carcasses, deposited by the flood. Their death was probably due to reduction in food supply.

The problem is your just stating this. You're not providing any evidence.

Killing off the big cats with higher diary needs and leaving the small ones alive.

This is sort of contradicted by the fact that there are big cats still alive. Tigers, for instance, are bigger than many extinct cats.

Not to mention your ignoring predators like alligators and snakes and other carnivores that aren't known for migrating to colder climates.

 

[Aureus]

But like I showed there is evidence large carnivores were in colder regions. Why then did scientist say they died during the ice age if it was not significantly colder.

The large 'megafauna' that you are referring to didn't die 'during' the ice age, they died as and shortly after the ice age ended. Bit of a difference.

My point is not that the cold killed them. My point was that the after flood food source meat, could have been preserved in the icy environment. Previously I stated carnivores would have been led to colder regions due the the longivity of the food source. Less rot in frozen carcasses, deposited by the flood. Their death was probably due to reduction in food supply. Killing off the big cats with higher diary needs and leaving the small ones alive.

There was plenty of food up in the northern cold environs. They were not however 'on the ice.' They were up in the great steppes that were south of the glaciers. These were not barren empty landscapes of frozen corpses. These were vibrant pieces of land filled with life of all kinds, shapes and sizes. Plant life and animal life in tremendous quantity.

 

[Cearbhall]

I could have this all wrong, but this is, is my reasoning.

Then get into the field, write a paper, and try to get it published in a peer-reviewed journal. Until you succeed in doing that and change the mainstream narrative of Earth's history, you have no credibility. You have to gain the same amount of knowledge and put in the same amount of work as the experts to even pretend to know better than them. It blows my mind when people on here expect other people to accept them as a rightful authority on a certain matter and to reject the research of nearly everyone who is actually in the relevant field.

Rather than cuss me out, tell me where my reasoning is wrong, i am open to learn, I want to refine my ideas....

Where in that post was there anything that would fall under even a loose definition of cussing?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Posting blind, so I don't know if this has been covered, but...

What about plants? Did flowering plants (angiosperms) climb uphill as the waters rose? So that their fossils are not found trapped among the more sedentary gymnosperms that first appear lower in the fossil record?

"The ancestors of flowering plants diverged from gymnosperms in the Triassic Period, during the range 245 to 202 million years ago (mya), and the first flowering plants are known from 160 mya. They diversified extensively during the Lower Cretaceous, became widespread by 120 mya, and replaced conifersas the dominant trees during 100 to 60 mya."

"It is widely accepted that the gymnosperms originated in the late Carboniferous period, replacing the lycopsid rainforests of the tropical region.[6][7] This appears to have been the result of a whole genome duplication event around 319 million years ago"

 

[RedPonyDriver]

something you have completely ignored
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_crater

http://www.livescience.com/50414-chicxulub-crater-drilling.html

 

[RedPonyDriver]

more:
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/education/events/cowen1b.html

your global flood model doesn't work.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

In regard to the post stating how would animal eat frozen or semi frozen meat. The following presentation shows animals like the arctic fox can and do eat frozen meat.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

The large 'megafauna' that you are referring to didn't die 'during' the ice age, they died as and shortly after the ice age ended. Bit of a difference.



There was plenty of food up in the northern cold environs. They were not however 'on the ice.' They were up in the great steppes that were south of the glaciers. These were not barren empty landscapes of frozen corpses. These were vibrant pieces of land filled with life of all kinds, shapes and sizes. Plant life and animal life in tremendous quantity.

This is no problem at all for my model. Ofter the flood thier may well have been a lot of ash in the atmosphere blocking the suns rays resulting in a closer climate. It is possible this activity lasted for some time as fault lines settled. As for the abundance of life in thaws times that is no problem either. How do we tell what life was there by dead animal and forms a there was a lot of that lying around AFTER the flood.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

...the ground.

Have you never stepped in mud? Does it make you incapable of jumping? It's not quicksand.

This is a joke ... I used to live on a farm ... Mud even half a meter deep stops you from moving ... Almost makes you immobile I am happy to see you test that theory out.

Which nobody is denying. There's a bit of a difference between that and saying ALL PREDATORS WERE IN THE NORTH.

If you have a look at what animals were there you see large leopards and other big game hunters.

As for some one who mentioned crocodiles their diet consists of mainly fish. Snakes like lizards could survive off insects I would imagine.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

This is no problem at all for my model. Ofter the flood thier may well have been a lot of ash in the atmosphere blocking the suns rays resulting in a closer climate. It is possible this activity lasted for some time as fault lines settled. As for the abundance of life in thaws times that is no problem either. How do we tell what life was there by dead animal and forms a there was a lot of that lying around AFTER the flood.

How could there be ash in the air if the world was subjected to a global flood?! How? What mechanism would project ash, a byproduct of a volcanic eruption or catastrophic impact, if the world was covered in water?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

something you have completely ignored
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_crater

http://www.livescience.com/50414-chicxulub-crater-drilling.html

Hi there was contention between scientists on the find. Secondly it does not prove the dino extinction event .

Over the last few days and nights I have been studying the actual fossil record from beginning to end from evolutionary websites. If you look at the complete fossil record. Not just snapshots shown in evolutionary propaganda you will find there is very little evidence of gradual change.

The layers are often even by evolutionist called explosions. Why explosions because life just rapidly appears.

As for the whole life is getting more complicated as you get higher idea, it is not really true of the whole record.

But in a flood model with slowly increasing flood waters. You would expect simple animals lower down, as they have not developed the features to move higher to escape the unbrethable mud filled waters. I.e. Any creature with legs will be able to move higher than one without them.