Foru.ms - a new beginning and a fresh start (3)

[Erwin]

This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "Foru.ms - a new beginning and a fresh start (2)"

 

[The Bellman]

I see YOUR problem, yes... you reject that God exists, THEREFORE YOU DENY THAT ANYONE CAN BE SPIRITUALLY REACHED/INTERNALLY by that God.

Sorry, but false. Try to not attempt to read my mind in future. You're bad at it.

I do not know if anyone can be spiritually reached/internally by any God. I do, however, know that people who claim to have been so still disagree. And that's the entire point. For thousands of years, people who love Christ, who do their best to follow him and the Bible, who are sure they have been touched by the spirit, have been disagreeing about what God wants, about what is and isn't okay, about what should and shouldn't be believed. If two people believe that god has told them two contradictory beliefs, how is anyone else to know which of them is wrong? They can't. All they can do is ask God to clarify to them - and they do. And, again, they all end up disagreeing. This is why there are so many Christian denominations - all of whom believe they are correct, that God has spoken to their leaders, that they are led by the spirit.

Well, millions of us are living proof that our God DOES internally call us to Himself. Lives change, miracles happen.
Those who refuse to believe and refuse Faith, will not see or understand it (NOR WANT TO for that matter).
The bible explains how this works and I"m sure you've read it.

You WON"T understand it - just like I didn't before I accepted Christ. I was just as much a liberal as these folks here were. I belonged to several animal rights groups, Greenpeace & the Sierra Club.
I was very liberal!

So I know how both sides work and why they do. All I can say is, unless one submits to God and seeks with a true heart (no bias), they won't SEE God.
His method is Faith, so it takes you responding to His call, and accepting what you DO see as evidence.
(nature/creation). Romans 1:18-32

None of this is really at issue in this thread and I don't want to participate in a derail.

 

[psalms 91]

I wanted to quote whoever said and let them believe also in response to a post that supported Jesus as the only way which is true to Christians, it is one area that we all agree on. Now perhaps we would but you see we joined a site and supported a site where we were told that the Nicene Creed would stand and never go away and it did and we joined Christian Forums which means it held certain things that all could agree on that were Christian and now we find out we were sold a bill of goods. Why do you think the site supporters are upset, and the membership is bailing out?

 

[JimfromOhio]

subscribing

 

[Asinner]

I wanted to quote whoever said and let them believe also in response to a post that supported Jesus as the only way which is true to Christians, it is one area that we all agree on. Now perhaps we would but you see we joined a site and supported a site where we were told that the Nicene Creed would stand and never go away and it did and we joined Christian Forums which means it held certain things that all could agree on that were Christian and now we find out we were sold a bill of goods. Why do you think the site supporters are upset, and the membership is bailing out?

I believe the point was made that even when the NC was the "standard", heresy was still prominent. I ran across many people who did not hold to the standards of the Creed, yet called themselves Christian.

Love,
Christina

 

[Sitswithamouse]

"""Old CF was far from sweetness and light and kitties and ponies. It was a theological shooting gallery. Am I the only one who remembers the "Historical Protestant" controversy? Am I the only one who remembers the MJ forum meltdown? Am I the only one who remembers the trolling that went on the night Pope John Paul II died?"""" Quoted by CaDan.

It was all these incidents and more that made me decide to leave this forum over a year ago I hope the changes will improve things around here.
I will wait and see.

 

[Asinner]

"""Old CF was far from sweetness and light and kitties and ponies. It was a theological shooting gallery. Am I the only one who remembers the "Historical Protestant" controversy? Am I the only one who remembers the MJ forum meltdown? Am I the only one who remembers the trolling that went on the night Pope John Paul II died?"""" Quoted by CaDan.

It was all these incidents and more that made me decide to leave this forum over a year ago I hope the changes will improve things around here.
I will wait and see.

A breath of fresh air.

 

[Nadiine]

Sorry, but false. Try to not attempt to read my mind in future. You're bad at it.

Sorry, I assumed all atheists had at least one quantifier - that they all rejected God/a God existed in some general way.

I do not know if anyone can be spiritually reached/internally by any God. I do, however, know that people who claim to have been so still disagree. And that's the entire point.

The fact that people are FLAWED isn't an evidence of not having the right God tho. If God wanted only Christians to be supreme and have His full wisdom and intelligence, then you'de see us all knowing everything & having full agreement.
The Bible ALSO displays the disciples who disagreed and Paul taking Peter to task for favoritism.

We don't become superhuman and intellectually superior, we become REDEEMED and on a journey like anyone else.

For thousands of years, people who love Christ, who do their best to follow him and the Bible, who are sure they have been touched by the spirit, have been disagreeing about what God wants, about what is and isn't okay, about what should and shouldn't be believed. If two people believe that god has told them two contradictory beliefs, how is anyone else to know which of them is wrong?

This is simple - the bible isn't 100% detailed about every single issue - there are alot of undetailed teachings. They also used 2 other languages that are very intricate and don't fully translate into our language - we have one word for "love", Greek has over 5 that define each TYPE.
Then you have people that don't study, you have people from all backgrounds & ages; you have some who listen to false teachers & pick up error, some are immature, some are in a period of rebellion, some are newer Christians, some aren't Christians!!...
there are TONS of reasons why we disagree.

But the disagreements are only on minor things. Not the central tenets of what make us saved.
Here's a verse I meant to add before about people claiming to be Christians:
Mt. 7:18-23
18" A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

They can't. All they can do is ask God to clarify to them - and they do. And, again, they all end up disagreeing.

& Guess what? I know more today & have more clarified to me years after I first accepted Christ than I did then.
Life experiences teach us too - then things in the bible become clearer.
It's built my faith in Him which gets stronger.

This is why there are so many Christian denominations - all of whom believe they are correct, that God has spoken to their leaders, that they are led by the spirit.

I actually like denominations; they're FORMS of worship & teaching that fit different people's styles. I don't get into the Pentecostal stuff... I"m glad we have different places to worship & learn.
So what if the reformed believe in Calvanism and I don't? They have a large part of it right.
we don't HAVE to be 100%, and if we were, we'd be robots that God programmed. no thank you.

None of this is really at issue in this thread and I don't want to participate in a derail

AGREED!

 

[infaile]

Do you have proof of that in any official document? I have copies of most versions of the CF Rules since the beginning of 2006 in my archives and I don't see it in there.

CaDan, myself and probably many others would appreciate it if, instead of waiting for people to make erroneous statements about the previous policies and then telling them that they are wrong and you have proof, you made said policies available for everyone to view. Not all of us are or were moderators, or staff in any other form, and speaking for myself I don't have any copies of the policies pre 7-7-7 and would like to see them. Perhaps you could post a new thread with the old policies in it for review by those who wish to argue from that baseline, and link it here? Would be greatly appreciated.

***

For those who are arguing or mis-/uninformed about the whole domain-name-buying shebang, Erwin has stated somewhere that he wasn't entirely certain he'd use foru.ms for CF, I think he actually said there were a few other options for its use. Which explains why he bought the domain name before the bit about sticking to the poll results. Up to you to believe him or not, but there is an explanation available.

***

Can people please stop using ALL CAPS in their posts? It's rude. A breach of common netiquette that is considered 'shouting' online. If you were face to face with all of us, would you disgrace yourself with such a complete lack of control as you have exhibited here, or would you try to keep calm and get your point across without stamping your foot and waving your arms around in the air?

While it may seem as though you're being drowned in all the other voices here, if you take the time to be polite and measured in your comments, you will likely get a better response. I realise that posts are getting buried in here, but such is the nature of a fast-moving thread. No need to shout; if you do, people will likely not read your posts, or if they do, will view it with some skepticism and irritation.

No matter whether or not you have a point - and some of you do - your shouting makes you out to be immature and overly emotional. Yes, many people feel betrayed by Erwin. But, as my mother always tells me, trust in God, not in humans. Humans are fallible - even webmasters!

Is not one of the fruits of the Spirit patience? How about long-suffering? Gentleness? Please try to exercise all three on this thread, or we won't achieve anything but heartache on all sides.

Blessings ALL (no matter which 'side' you take),
infaile

 

[Dying2Live4Christ]

Erwin-

Why do you constantly avoid any real qeustions asked of you? If you truly feel that you have done nothing wrong in this decision, you wouldn't be ashamed, but actually happy to answer any questions.

1: Why do you think it is OK to hide Christ's name from the title of the website in an effort to get more people to come here? That means that in your eyes the name of God is a negative taint to the forums and that getting people here is more important to you than representing He who saved His children. Why is it OK to be ashamed of his name?

2: Why do you ignore the massive outrage that has been brought upon the forums as a result of this decision? In scanning this thread alone, the majority of both Christian's AND non-Christians seemed to prefer the site the way it was. Why do you ignore all of us? Because you spent so much money on the new domain? Sorry, but that was your bad decision, it doesn't mean that returning to the Christian Forums name wouldn't be the right thing to do.

3: Why do you not set a standard by which those who call themselves Christian must behave according to the guidelines set in the Bible? In refusing to do this, you invite any immature myspace punk in here and allow them to wear the mask of a Christian while acting completely in contrast to the teachings of Christ, therefore misrepresenting not only the Lord, but also this site to any one who comes here truly seeking help. It isn't spiritually healthy, it isn't smart, and it can't be allowed.

4: Why do you allow poll results to dictate how you represent Christ in your website? Why do you allow PEOPLE to change how you follow through with your own beliefs? If it were my site, I wouldn't have cared if the poll was %100-%0 in favor of the change, I wouldn't have done it because it isn't what the site is all about. Serving the Lord is more important than gaining new members, Erwin. If you do what's right for Him, he would've ensured that the website continued with or without new members. So why do you follow people before God?

5: How can you guarantee that this degeneration of the Christian society we once had here won't continue as the myspace generation filters in? You've already removed Christ from both the name and the appearance of the site to attract more members. How can you guarantee that you won't also remove him from your new "vision" that you keep touting? How are we to believe you?

6: Why don't you care that places like Christ Centered Forums have already nearly doubled their membership numbers because of those of us who are dissatisfied with what CF has become? Many members put their hard earned money into this place, and others like myself have come here routinely and referred people here and met a number of good friends. Why does our loyalty mean so little that you'd just as soon throw it away rather than listen too our requests?

7: I’m going to add this one for snoochface - “Please address the issue of how new CHRISTIANS will find this site, and why they would ever want to join it if they did. Many, many Christians came to this site through searching for Christian forums - you acknowledge that yourself in your FAQ. You also acknowledge that the site has lost many members since these changes, and after reading your responses you are very likely going to lose even more. So how are new Christians, or any Christians at all, going to come here to participate in your Joel Osteen-ish outreach program? And if they don't come, and you're losing the Christians who are here already, who is going to be doing this outreach?”

I think these are reasonable questions that you should have no reason not to answer if you truly believe you made the right decision.

To those non-believers bashing the believers that are trying to stand up for the name of Christ, just to let you know, it is not a sin to speak the truth. If you think you are doing something by condemning christians who don't wimper away or those who actually call your bluff, you aren't doing anything. Even Jesus Himself called out the Pharisees for their hypocrisy. Jesus flipped the tables to make a point. We do not have to be doormats in order to be "good christians". So you can say what you want, but the truth remains. We are not doing anything wrong in standing for Christ. I for one wish that more christians were on here. I can't believe that there are so many members on here and yet only a few remain loyal to the core of this site-Jesus. I can't even understand why we would tolerate taking Christ out of the equation.

 

[infaile]

Erwin-

Why do you constantly avoid any real qeustions asked of you? If you truly feel that you have done nothing wrong in this decision, you wouldn't be ashamed, but actually happy to answer any questions.

I think these are reasonable questions that you should have no reason not to answer if you truly believe you made the right decision.

Hello, Dying2Live4Christ.

Whilst I also would like answers to these questions, can everyone please keep in mind that Erwin is in AUSTRALIA? Those of you in the US are having an 'evening' right now, I think, but here it's only just hit 12:30PM. Erwin does have a day job, and a busy one at that.

Please, at least give the man 24 hours to respond to questions - and those of you who are better at the patience game, please give him 48 hours. CF is not his life, and I wouldn't begrudge him some time off if he needed it, no matter how much people want answers. He is only human.

The fact that we're insanely active on this thread doesn't mean that he is, or even has the time to be. I also live in Australia, but unlike Erwin, I don't have a job, lol. So I have time to keep up with this. No doubt when he returns home from work, or gets a spare moment free today, he will check in, but keep in mind all the posts he has to catch up on. This thread grows very quickly.

Patience, again...

Blessings,
infaile

 

[joebudda]

To those non-believers bashing the believers that are trying to stand up for the name of Christ, just to let you know, it is not a sin to speak the truth. If you think you are doing something by condemning christians who don't wimper away or those who actually call your bluff, you aren't doing anything. Even Jesus Himself called out the Pharisees for their hypocrisy. Jesus flipped the tables to make a point. We do not have to be doormats in order to be "good christians". So you can say what you want, but the truth remains. We are not doing anything wrong in standing for Christ. I for one wish that more christians were on here. I can't believe that there are so many members on here and yet only a few remain loyal to the core of this site-Jesus. I can't even understand why we would tolerate taking Christ out of the equation.

I haven't seen any non-Christian bash any Christian. Please point it out if I am mistaken.

The truth is there are Christians of varying beliefs here. All of them believe they are Christians.

For someone who believes that some Christians are not "true Christians" and then take away their identity they identify with is enforcing one groups beliefs onto another group.

If you are aloud to believe and identify as you do then give them this same respect.

 

[Garnet2727]

...

 

[Dying2Live4Christ]

Hello, Dying2Live4Christ.

Whilst I also would like answers to these questions, can everyone please keep in mind that Erwin is in AUSTRALIA? Those of you in the US are having an 'evening' right now, I think, but here it's only just hit 12:30PM. Erwin does have a day job, and a busy one at that.

Please, at least give the man 24 hours to respond to questions - and those of you who are better at the patience game, please give him 48 hours. CF is not his life, and I wouldn't begrudge him some time off if he needed it, no matter how much people want answers. He is only human.

The fact that we're insanely active on this thread doesn't mean that he is, or even has the time to be. I also live in Australia, but unlike Erwin, I don't have a job, lol. So I have time to keep up with this. No doubt when he returns home from work, or gets a spare moment free today, he will check in, but keep in mind all the posts he has to catch up on. This thread grows very quickly.

Patience, again...

Blessings,
infaile

These questions have been posted throughout the day by ravendta and I have been anxiously awaiting a response. I understand he is busy and is not in our time zone, but he's had adequate time. But if he needs longer I will wait longer

 

[The Bellman]

To those non-believers bashing the believers that are trying to stand up for the name of Christ, just to let you know, it is not a sin to speak the truth.

Nobody is 'bashing' anyone. All of us are giving our opinions on the matter.

If you think you are doing something by condemning christians who don't wimper away or those who actually call your bluff, you aren't doing anything.

Nobody has condemned anyone. What bluff is anyone calling? Honestly, this post is reading like paranoia at this stage.

Remember, all these changes were instigated be a Christian, not non-believers. The biggest change - the change of forum name - was urged on him by Christians.

Even Jesus Himself called out the Pharisees for their hypocrisy. Jesus flipped the tables to make a point. We do not have to be doormats in order to be "good christians".

Nobody has suggested you do.

So you can say what you want, but the truth remains. We are not doing anything wrong in standing for Christ.

I believe the issue is that many people feel that you're not standing for Christ at all. You're standing for yourselves, and the discontent you feel. And that's a perfectly valid thing for you to do. But don't adopt a martyr complex and think that in protesting about a site name change, you're standing for Christ.

I for one wish that more christians were on here. I can't believe that there are so many members on here and yet only a few remain loyal to the core of this site-Jesus.

That's just self-serving. There is no indication that few are remaining loyal to Jesus. There is an indication that many don't think you have to get upset about the site's name to remain loyal to Jesus.

I can't even understand why we would tolerate taking Christ out of the equation.

Nobody has taken Christ out of the equation. It's been taken out of the name of the website, in an effort to make the site more 'friendly' to non-Christians. You might think that's a bad move - I do, myself. But it's not 'taking Christ out of the equation'.

 

[Dying2Live4Christ]

I haven't seen any non-Christian bash any Christian. Please point it out if I am mistaken.

The truth is there are Christians of varying beliefs here. All of them believe they are Christians.

For someone to who believes that some Christians are not "true Christians" and then take away their identity they identify with is enforces one groups beliefs onto another groups beliefs.

If you are aloud to believe and identify as you do then give them this same respect.

I think you misunderstand me with this. I am tired of seeing non believers offended or feel like they are being attacked whenever we even speak the name Jesus. This was a site for all sorts of people to learn about Christ. Or to debate and figure out what they believe. Bottom line this was a christian site, and I am tired of seeing things being ripped from us and secularized for the rest of the world. Why is it okay for anything we have that is christian to be secularized but it is not okay for the secular world to have anything christianized? Why is it such a threat?

Christians follow Christ's teachings, bottom line, forget the mixed theological reasonings.


Example of a cheap generalization to christian aka bashing:

And here is why the abolition of the Nicene-Creed acceptance to call yourself Christian doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because whatever restrictions you put on who can call themselves Christian, you will still fight among each other and call each other heretics. It seems to be an inevitable trait of just about all theologies. A person can fully accept the Nicene Creed and hold that homosexuality is not a sin; yet you would happily say that they are terribly wrong and endanger their own soul and those to whom they teach their 'heresy'. And the same is true of many other beliefs. A person can fully accept the Nicene Creed and hold the femism is a great or a terrible thing; that abortion should be legal or illegal; that works is more important than faith or vice versa and so forth. In the end, it doesn't matter what criteria you put on who can call themselves 'Christian', you'll still find something about them which will make them 'heretics'.

 

[Nadiine]

I think you misunderstand me with this. I am tired of seeing non believers offended or feel like they are being attacked whenever we even speak the name Jesus. This was a site for all sorts of people to learn about Christ. Or to debate and figure out what they believe. Bottom line this was a christian site, and I am tired of seeing things being ripped from us and secularized for the rest of the world. Why is it okay for anything we have that is christian to be secularized but it is not okay for the secular world to have anything christianized? Why is it such a threat?

Well noted!

Why is it Christians don't sit here complaining that nonchristians ASSUME THEIR WORLDVIEW in all their posts??

NonChristians expect that Christians are here, and should expect that we post within our worldview.
I won't apologize for it either.

 

[Dying2Live4Christ]

Nobody is 'bashing' anyone. All of us are giving our opinions on the matter.


Nobody has condemned anyone. What bluff is anyone calling? Honestly, this post is reading like paranoia at this stage.

Remember, all these changes were instigated be a Christian, not non-believers. The biggest change - the change of forum name - was urged on him by Christians.


Nobody has suggested you do.


I believe the issue is that many people feel that you're not standing for Christ at all. You're standing for yourselves, and the discontent you feel. And that's a perfectly valid thing for you to do. But don't adopt a martyr complex and think that in protesting about a site name change, you're standing for Christ.


That's just self-serving. There is no indication that few are remaining loyal to Jesus. There is an indication that many don't think you have to get upset about the site's name to remain loyal to Jesus.


Nobody has taken Christ out of the equation. It's been taken out of the name of the website, in an effort to make the site more 'friendly' to non-Christians. You might think that's a bad move - I do, myself. But it's not 'taking Christ out of the equation'.

Look, it can look like paranoia to you. You dont see the spiritual battle because you are not a christian. You are blinded to that. I understand and it's not your fault you can't see that. I feel that if you did know Christ you would see that His name taken out of the title is just another secular, non commitive, socially correct move. Too many christians are selling out and dumbing down or removing their devotion to Christ completely to be in complete compliance with the rest of the world. I don't feel this is right. I feel that we have just a much of a right to shout from the rooftops that He is King of kings as an atheist has the right to shout they don't believe in God. I feel I am standing for Christ. I feel that we all as christians feel like as soon as we are confronted at all, we should buckle. But I think we should be strong and stand for our right to have a christian website with a christian name.

 

[Dying2Live4Christ]

Well noted!

Why is it Christians don't sit here complaining that nonchristians ASSUME THEIR WORLDVIEW in all their posts??

NonChristians expect that Christians are here, and should expect that we post within our worldview.
I won't apologize for it either.

Right on! Rep coming your way!

 

[Nadiine]

I haven't seen any non-Christian bash any Christian. Please point it out if I am mistaken.

The truth is there are Christians of varying beliefs here. All of them believe they are Christians.

For someone who believes that some Christians are not "true Christians" and then take away their identity they identify with is enforcing one groups beliefs onto another group.

If you are aloud to believe and identify as you do then give them this same respect.

Listen, THE BIBLE TELLS US THAT WE NEED TO KNOW HOW TO SPOT WHAT IS FALSE, AND GIVES US HIS TEACHINGS TO KNOW HIS TRUTH BY.

HOW ARE CHRISTIANS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO DECIPHER FALSE TEACHINGS IF WE CAN'T FIRST JUDGE THEIR RELAYED BELIEFS?

According to YOU, a Christian is called by God to be an idiot who has no way to check to see if someone's false, so we all remain gullible?

God gives us ways to know what's true and false - that why He gave us ONE BIBLE - with supported testimony by those who walked with Him directly and witnessed His actions.
We don't just live by opinions that change with society's latest Politically correct trends.
That's why your theory doesn't float - Christ said we would be able to KNOW truth from error, and that His sheep know HIS voice, and dont follow strangers who come.
We know who not to follow. I don't care what they claim.

Ps: I'm only speaking of those who reject the mandatory beliefs & acceptances found in scripture, not varying minor doctrines we can freely view differently yet still be united.