Former President Donald Trump has been indicted for a second time

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Landon Caeli

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The lesson will be not to take classified documents out of the WH.

Someone who has possibly broken the law will be punished if found guilty.

Probably not. But that's not the point of the indictment.

It's illegal.
Or, it could further divide the country.

Is that worth it? Prosecuting Trump on a law that's designed as a 'preventative' measure?

I don't think it's going to be worth it.
 
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RDKirk

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You know how many went to prison? None. You know how many people got fired? None. Why? It was an accident. Stuff happens. IF SOMEONE TRIED TO COVER IT UP, then that person would be summarily fired and FBI would be notified of the details who would then decide what to do with the situation.

In a similar situation, LegalEagle (Youtube channel) did a review of some Trump tax-stuff around the time of his first impeachment (IIRC). The lawyer on the channel, thought some of the revealed stuff was dodgy, BUT he thought nothing would come of it because it is "really difficult to prove intent".

Yeah, intent matters. As far as we know, Biden and Pence had no intent to do anything with the material nor even knew they had the material. They should be in the clear. The Pence case is apparently closed. Biden's is not.
Intent does matter. I got "interviewed" in a circumstance when a classified document I created had been put into normal interoffice hardcopy mail in a "holey joe" envelope. When it was determined that it was actually our office clerk-typist who'd done that, they lost interest in me. The clerk-typist got his hand slapped, but went on to have a decent career, retired, and I still talk to him now and then on Facebook.

Another time, though, a Air Force major I worked with on the SR-71 program was found to have stacks of classified SR-71 information in his hotel room. I got interviewed again because I worked with him. There was no evidence that he attempted to transfer the information to anyone, but it was shown that he had deliberately removed it from approved storage to his room. He did some prison time.
 
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Bradskii

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Or, it could further divide the country.
Is that an excuse not to proceed? Because some people, like yourself, are getting upset about this?
Is that worth it? Prosecuting Trump on a law that's designed as a 'preventative' measure?
There are three reasons to prosecute. As a deterrent, as a punishment and to protect us from the guilty person (assuming he or she is found guilty). I doubt whether the third applies in this case. But the first two definitely do.

If you had the documents and did exactly as Trump did and were prosecuted and found guilty then any sentence you received would be a punishment for breaking the law and a deterrent to others - 'see what happens if you do this!'
I don't think it's going to be worth it.
I'm sure the authorities will consider your opinion.
 
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Landon Caeli

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You mean like laws against murder?
No, murder is directly what we're trying to prevent with laws against murder.

With laws against taking documents, we're not directly concerned with government officials taking them, we're actually indirectly concerned with that, whereas we are most directly concerned with those documents falling into the hands of foreign countries, or terrorists, or some other enemy of the state.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Is that an excuse not to proceed? Because some people, like yourself, are getting bent out of shape about this?
Hmmm... You say the rules are important. Then you suggest that me, Landon Caeli, and not Donald Trump, or the indictment, are bent out of shape?

You know I'm a kind man, Bradskii. More so than I should be perhaps.
 
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Bradskii

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Hmmm... You say the rules are important. Then you suggest that me, Landon Caeli, and not Donald Trump, or the indictment, are bent out of shape?

You know I'm a kind man, Bradskii. More so than I should be perhaps.
OK...a bridge too far perhaps. You've always been polite to me - I should reciprocate. My apologies. Post edited.

Maybe I should have said that it's not a very good reason not to proceed just because everyone who is supporting him, including you, appear to be upset at the prospect.
 
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comana

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Or, it could further divide the country.

Is that worth it? Prosecuting Trump on a law that's designed as a 'preventative' measure?

I don't think it's going to be worth it.
Trump already divided the country. It’s going to take a long time, if ever to undo that. It’s not an excuse to ignore laws broken.
 
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Bradskii

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No, murder is directly what we're trying to prevent with laws against murder.

With laws against taking documents, we're not directly concerned with government officials taking them, we're actually indirectly concerned with that, whereas we are most directly concerned with those documents falling into the hands of foreign countries, or terrorists, or some other enemy of the state.
I think you have that the wrong way around. We are all concerned, in the first instance, with people mishandling classified information. Because, in the second instance, it may fall into the wrong hands. Trump is being accused of the first. Because of the second.
 
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Bradskii

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For some reason, he lived in the motel instead of an apartment. That already sounds a little sus to me.
Ah, in which case I'll put money on it being in the air conditioning duct, a la Cohen brothers.
 
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Landon Caeli

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I think you have that the wrong way around. We are all concerned, in the first instance, with people mishandling classified information. Because, in the second instance, it may fall into the wrong hands. Trump is being accused of the first. Because of the second.
Yes, hence it's a 'preventative' law. It's a law put into place, to prevent a "potential", undesirable result (enemies of the state gaining access to our secrets).

...Unlike murder, which is a law that prevents the direct result of murder.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Other 'preventative' laws would be something like banning certain guns, or knives, because they could "potentially" be used to murder.

These types of laws tend to not go over well with those who value freedom the most.
 
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adrianmonk

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Or, it could further divide the country.

Is that worth it? Prosecuting Trump on a law that's designed as a 'preventative' measure?

I don't think it's going to be worth it.

Trump could have returned all of them when asked, and this indictment would not have happened. As far as I can tell, he is not being charged for any of the documents he returned.

After being asked to return them, Trump did not. He went out of his way to prevent those documents from being found (his valet Nauta is being charged for conspiracy), and in the recordings, knew those documents were classified.

Some news stories have reported that his attorneys wanted to negotiate the return of those documents, but Trump refused. This is why he is being charged for wilful retention of those documents, as his actions are evident of wilful retention.

Is it worth it ? It shows other politicians (of any party) that even being president does not mean they are above the law. In that sense, yes it is absolutely worth it.

@RocksInMyHead posted (Post #1061) lists the statute under which Trump is being charged if you need more details.
 
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adrianmonk

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Yes, hence it's a 'preventative' law. It's a law put into place, to prevent a "potential", undesirable result (enemies of the state gaining access to our secrets).

...Unlike murder, which is a law that prevents the direct result of murder.

So you have no problems with unsafe driving, drunk driving, firing your gun blindly into a crowd right ? They are all in place to prevent a "potential", undesirable result.
 
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Bradskii

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Other 'preventative' laws would be something like banning certain guns, or knives, because they could "potentially" be used to murder.

These types of laws tend to not go over well with those who value freedom the most.
No way. No way. There's no way you can possibly be equating the illegal possession of classified information with gun control. No way.
 
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Landon Caeli

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So you have no problems with unsafe driving, drunk driving, firing your gun blindly into a crowd right ? They are all in place to prevent a "potential", undesirable result.
I'm a little different than most. I believe in personal accountability, over blanket laws.

...I'm not saying the world is ready for me, or my kind yet, but it's where my heart is.
 
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Landon Caeli

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No way. No way. There's no way you can possibly be equating the illegal possession of classified information with gun control. No way.
Think about it.
 
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Bradskii

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Think about it.
I did. The mental gymnastics it took even to try to align those completely different concepts has given me a headache. How you can present it as an argument is completely and utterly beyond my comprehension.
 
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