Forgivness & Confession

[PaladinValer]

Will you ever get off the legalistic sin issue?Seriously God isn't dealing with man anymore on the basses of sin.He is dealing with the Issue of Life now.

Legalism? This is Christianity, like it or not. No baptism=no salvation. No repentence of sins=no salvation. Nothing imperfect can go to heaven, period. Dying in sin is not good.

2 corinthians 5:19"That God was in Christ,reconciling the world unto himself,NOT COUNTING THERE SINS AGAINST THEM"

Nicely taken out of context! In addition, you only gave half of the verse in order to promote your view. Not good...

"All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us." -NRSV 2 Corin 5:18-19.

Jesus is a minister of reconciliation because in Him, He makes us a "New Creation." But what does that mean? It means we've repented of our sins and turn to Him. This is exactly what happens when we are baptized. However, that doesn't mean that we only need to repent once, which is why St. Paul was a minister of reconciliation.

Confused? You shouldn't be. The Bible says to confess our sins to one another and forgive one another. Why would then we need only repent once? And why then is St. Paul a minister of reconciliation? Because God gave the ordained bishops and priests the power to forgive others in His Name. In this, St. Paul is a minister of reconciliation, for he was a bishop.

So in order to be reconciled to God, we must repent not only once, but as many times as needed. What did Jesus say? Wasn't it something like "even if they come seven x seven times, we must forgive"? Why the need if you are right? It's fruitless! But if you follow orthodoxy, it makes perfect sense; those who sin must repent, for they broke their baptismal covenant.

You got to chuck this right out the window to believe he is still dealing with you on the basses of Sin.

I will not forsake the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church nor its teachings as instituted by the Christ. You may tempt me all you want, but I will not forsake the orthodox faith.

You saying he is counting your sins against you and they whernt forgiven at the Cross.

He does.

1. He consideres us righteous through Him. That doesn't mean we are righteous now.
2. Being made a "New Creation" means that we've rejected sin. But if we sin, we have lost being newly Created. In repentence, we are renewed in our vows once again, and all of heaven rejoices.

Nope,He Paid the price for you sin,whether you wanted him to or not!His life you must accept in you,nothing else.

HA! Really? How about this:

**Clears throat**

"I hereby renounce God and Jesus as my Savior"

Had I truly meant that, then what? Is God so stupid that He would allow loopholes? My God isn't.

Puting your self in the position you must acept his forgiveness puts YOU<YOU<YOU into salvation and geting your sins forgiven instead of christ.He doesnt need your premision to forgive sins.

No, it doesn't as I had explained already. You really must pick-and-choose to really believe that I said such.

Again god isn't dependant on what you want.This isn't the day of Atonment.Please stop going back to the day of Atonment and acting like you had some say in Christ taking away All sin at the cross,except blasphemy of the Holy Ghost!

Yes, He is. If I don't hold up my end, that means that I've said what I put in quotes above. God would have to accept that, no matter how it grieves Him. He lost this lamb of His; the lamb wandered away, and has chosen not to be of His flock anymore. God gave up people as attested in St. Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter one, when they fell back into idolatry. He didn't make them suffer under His "tyrrany" as they would have viewed it then; He let them go due to their His-given free will.

Oh, and the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit isn't unbelief. It is actually saying a person who has confirmed their faith (like me) is possessed by a demon (or similar).

YOU,YOU,YOU.This isn't about YOU.He forgave all your sins whether you acept it or not.There is only one sins that remains.

Only if I accept that sacrifice as per my baptismal vows. If I don't forget it; God understands and accepts that I do not want to have anything to do with Him. And He is merciful enough not to make me suffer in such a way. I will have chosen sin and hell.

You don't seem to know what Spiritual Life is.It's christ living in you.

He won't stay if I live an unrepentent sinful life. That's no temple worthy of Him to live in.

This Spiritual Life in you.Again you think I'm talking of pyshical life and i'm not!

Other way around...

Yes the Law of the Old Covenant that Jews tried to do works to have part in there salvation.This is one does when they try to add anything Jesus has done.

You have much to learn between Circumcisionism and orthodox Christianity if you honestly believe what you've said.

 

[rugerfann]

Did you or have you at anytime asked God to forgive you for your sins?

Yes before i knew he forgave ALL my sins and not just some of them.

Do you ever thank God for the things He has done for you? Why bother He knows you are thankful right?

Sure I do,but it has nothing to do with my salvation!

Do you ever sing songs of praise and worship to God? Why bother, He knows you mean it right?

I do,but again it has nothing to do with the forgivness of sins or salvation.

Did Jesus lie to us when He said for us to ask God to forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors?

At this time all where under the old Covenant so under the works of the Law!The Law is conditional,Grace is not!

Do you pray? Why bother, He knows what you need before you ask it...

Sure I do,But is has nada to do with my salvation,or the forgivness of sins!

by your defintion there is nothing you can do that is not a "work". What do you do in church servics? Wait, going to church would be a work wouldn't it?

I'm not saved by works.I'm saved by Christs Life in me,this has nothing to do with me or my works but with Christ Jesus and his.

 

[SumTinWong]

Yes before i knew he forgave ALL my sins and not just some of them.

The question was did you ever ask God to forgive you for your sins and you answered yes, is that correct? If so, why was that not a work?

 

[rugerfann]

Legalism? This is Christianity, like it or not. No baptism=no salvation. No repentence of sins=no salvation. Nothing imperfect can go to heaven, period. Dying in sin is not good.

This isn't water baptism,its baptism of the Holy Spirit.Salvation isn't geting sins forgiven,you has all your sins forgiven since birth into this world.Salvation is Christ life in you.

Nicely taken out of context! In addition, you only gave half of the verse in order to promote your view. Not good...

"All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us." -NRSV 2 Corin 5:18-19.

Nope,The context doesnt change its meaning.

Jesus is a minister of reconciliation because in Him, He makes us a "New Creation." But what does that mean? It means we've repented of our sins and turn to Him. This is exactly what happens when we are baptized. However, that doesn't mean that we only need to repent once, which is why St. Paul was a minister of reconciliation.

It means christ took away all sin at the cross!I am sorry you don't believe this.

Confused? You shouldn't be. The Bible says to confess our sins to one another and forgive one another. Why would then we need only repent once? And why then is St. Paul a minister of reconciliation? Because God gave the ordained bishops and priests the power to forgive others in His Name. In this, St. Paul is a minister of reconciliation, for he was a bishop.

Repent means to change ones mind.If you changed yer mind about bank robbing,and you robbed the bank the next day did you change yer mind at all?Nope,you just lied to your self is all.

So in order to be reconciled to God, we must repent not only once, but as many times as needed. What did Jesus say? Wasn't it something like "even if they come seven x seven times, we must forgive"? Why the need if you are right? It's fruitless! But if you follow orthodoxy, it makes perfect sense; those who sin must repent, for they broke their baptismal covenant.

Again this isn't posible.You can only change yer mind once about a action.

I will not forsake the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church nor its teachings as instituted by the Christ. You may tempt me all you want, but I will not forsake the orthodox faith.

Again I don't agree that the church of christ is a denomination.The rcc,occ are denomination per christian forums rules.

He does.

1. He consideres us righteous through Him. That doesn't mean we are righteous now.
2. Being made a "New Creation" means that we've rejected sin. But if we sin, we have lost being newly Created. In repentence, we are renewed in our vows once again, and all of heaven rejoices.

Disagree,One becomes the righteousness of christ Jesus at the time of recieveing his Life in you.

Disagree,one becomes a new creation the instant one is become spiritual alive.Sin has been taken away,I don't have to go to my day of atonment anymore,praise Jesus!

HA! Really? How about this:

**Clears throat**

"I hereby renounce God and Jesus as my Savior"

Had I truly meant that, then what? Is God so stupid that He would allow loopholes? My God isn't.

Doesn't matter,it matters what you believe.

God isnt Stuck in the old Covenant.It Grace not works of the Law!

No, it doesn't as I had explained already. You really must pick-and-choose to really believe that I said such.

I can say the same about you.

Yes, He is. If I don't hold up my end, that means that I've said what I put in quotes above. God would have to accept that, no matter how it grieves Him. He lost this lamb of His; the lamb wandered away, and has chosen not to be of His flock anymore. God gave up people as attested in St. Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter one, when they fell back into idolatry. He didn't make them suffer under His "tyrrany" as they would have viewed it then; He let them go due to their His-given free will.

Again you stuck in the old Covenant.Grace is not WORKS.One needs to trust christ only,we have no part on any end.

Oh, and the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit isn't unbelief. It is actually saying a person who has confirmed their faith (like me) is possessed by a demon (or similar).

Not listening to him is!His Job is to lead all to Christ,one must ignore him,turn there back on him to not be saved,this is blasphemy!

Only if I accept that sacrifice as per my baptismal vows. If I don't forget it; God understands and accepts that I do not want to have anything to do with Him. And He is merciful enough not to make me suffer in such a way. I will have chosen sin and hell.

Again Gods Grace has nothing to do with your works!

He won't stay if I live an unrepentent sinful life. That's no temple worthy of Him to live in.

Since Jesus paid for all sins,him leaving due to sin isn't posible,Unless one denies Christ took away there sin.

Other way around...

LOL

You have much to learn between Circumcisionism and orthodox Christianity if you honestly believe what you've said.

I have Trusted Christ Jesus alone,apart from any man made orginization!

 

[rugerfann]

The question was did you ever ask God to forgive you for your sins and you answered yes, is that correct? If so, why was that not a work?

It is a Work,but I never trusted it to save me.I know realize that is grieveuos to continualy ask him to do what he has already done.

Supose I paid 100,000,000 for a dept you owed.And you continuely asked me to pay the dept for you.I tell you,I paid the dept.And you continue to ask me,after a while I whould get grieved about it becuase you don't trust I paid it.And you still continue to ask.Basicaly you are it this point calling me a Liar.This is what man does to god,over and over,instead of thanking him.

Man should Thank God for what he has done,and stop asking him to do what he already has done.

 

[PaladinValer]

This isn't water baptism,its baptism of the Holy Spirit.Salvation isn't geting sins forgiven,you has all your sins forgiven since birth into this world.Salvation is Christ life in you.

Montanism.

And the teaching of Jesus says you must be baptized of both water and of Spirit. And means both, not "not the first but the other."

Nope,The context doesnt change its meaning.

Only to those who believe Jesus died to excuse sin, which is a whole other heresy.

It means christ took away all sin at the cross!I am sorry you don't believe this.

Only if we accept it and fulfill our end of our baptismal vows.

Repent means to change ones mind.If you changed yer mind about bank robbing,and you robbed the bank the next day did you change yer mind at all?Nope,you just lied to your self is all.

False. Repent means to change our ways, not our minds. We can say "that is wrong" all we like, but if we do it, we can still say "that is wrong" yet it doesn't mean we've repented that we did what sin we did.

So who then is lying to oneself?

Again this isn't posible.You can only change yer mind once about a action.

Montanism, not orthodoxy.

Again I don't agree that the church of christ is a denomination.The rcc,occ are denomination per christian forums rules.

1. Does God work by CF rules? (no offense, Erwin)
2. You don't know what the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is or means then by what you've said. It is the Church that was established by God through the Holy Spirit on Pentecost.

Disagree,One becomes the righteousness of christ Jesus at the time of recieveing his Life in you.

No one is righteous, or did the Holy Spirit lie to St. Paul?

Disagree,one becomes a new creation the instant one is become spiritual alive.Sin has been taken away,I don't have to go to my day of atonment anymore,praise Jesus!

Sin is a constant thread while we still have free will. We sin all the time; that is a part of our broken nature. If you do not repent, you will not be forgiven.

Doesn't matter,it matters what you believe.

Sorry; God doesn't bestow "cheap Grace."

God isnt Stuck in the old Covenant.It Grace not works of the Law!

Only if we warrant it.

I can say the same about you.

Sorry; I do not pick-and-choose. I go by orthodoxy.

Again you stuck in the old Covenant.Grace is not WORKS.One needs to trust christ only,we have no part on any end.

Dude, you obviously do not know the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant are then. We still must follow God's Laws, even if they aren't the whole Torah anymore. Jesus came to fulfill God's Law.

Not listening to him is!His Job is to lead all to Christ,one must ignore him,turn there back on him to not be saved,this is blasphemy!

Illogical according to the story. The pharisees said Jesus was possessed, not that He didn't listen to God.

It is impossible for a non-Christian to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. First, they'd have to acknowledge the Holy Spirit's existance in an orthodox sense. That means they must have been orthodox Christians at one point. And when they aren't anymore, they've obviously then rejected the orthodox view of the Holy Spirit, so it is all back to square one again.

Again Gods Grace has nothing to do with your works!

You do realize that the Early Church used a liturgical service, yes? Do you know what liturgy means?

Since Jesus paid for all sins,him leaving due to sin isn't posible,Unless one denies Christ took away there sin.

Only if we do not forsake God's Covenant with us in our baptisms.

I have Trusted Christ Jesus alone,apart from any man made orginization!

Then you reject the Scripture where God gave the Apostles authority and establishing the Church?

 

[SumTinWong]

It is a Work,but I never trusted it to save me.I know realize that is grieveuos to continualy ask him to do what he has already done.

Certainly it would be foolish to ask God to forgive you for something that is forgiven.

Supose I paid 100,000,000 for a dept you owed.And you continuely asked me to pay the dept for you.I tell you,I paid the dept.And you continue to ask me,after a while I whould get grieved about it becuase you don't trust I paid it.And you still continue to ask.Basicaly you are it this point calling me a Liar.This is what man does to god,over and over,instead of thanking him.

Okay what happens when I rack up another 100,000,000 in debt after you forgive me for the first debt? I accept the first payment, thank you! Do you just pay any further debts like direct deposit or do I ask you for that forgiveness? I asked you to forgive the first debt why would I not in any further incurring debts?

Or do you believe we do not sin once we are Christians?

Man should Thank God for what he has done,and stop asking him to do what he already has done.

Agreed, but man should also not forget that even though we are new creatures, we still have a tendency to sin, and need forgiveness from that sin as we did past sins.

I have never met anyone that thought this way about forgiveness. If you do not mind, what denomination are you in, so that I may study on my own what it is you believe?

 

[SumTinWong]

Repent means to change our ways, not our minds.

Actually, Repent:
metanoeo from meta - meta 3326 and noiew - noieo 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.

Just thought I would throw that in there...

 

[PaladinValer]

I don't trust Strong's worth a darn for its ideological-biased entries.

Repent means changing one's behavior.

 

[Qoheleth]

that she didn't necessarily have to be baptized to be saved, right?

Right, I agree. Mary did not have to be baptised because Baptism is necessary but not Absolutley necessary.


Q

 

[filosofer]

In Acts 2...just like in the rest of Acts baptisim comes after repentance...it is the symbol of our faith in jesus. This verse is not saying that we must get baptised to be saved...rather it is Peter saying we should do this along with our repentance. Repentance is the spiritual death to our old life...baptisim...the physical.

So how do you understand the Greek preposition in 2:38 EIS? IS that purpose or result?

In 1 Peter, Peter is saying that it is repentance that saves us not the baptisim. It is waht baptisim represents that saves us. The symbol of baptisim and the reality are closely related, and in fact the symbol is also used to refer to the reality

Actually if you read the text of 1 Peter 3:21 baptism is not the symbol. And the NIV use of "symbol" that is a poor translation of the Greek word ANTITYPON. Try the NKJV:

"There is also an antitype which now saves us - baptism..."

Note that the previous thing (the saving through the water at the time of the flood) is the type, and it points to the greater thing - the "antitype", which is the saving through baptism.

 

[rugerfann]

I don't trust Strong's worth a darn for its ideological-biased entries.

Repent means changing one's behavior.

Nope,changing ones mind!Most agree on this.

 

[PaladinValer]

Most? Please...

 

[rugerfann]

Montanism.

And the teaching of Jesus says you must be baptized of both water and of Spirit. And means both, not "not the first but the other."

Water is water,spirit is spirit,they have nothing to do with each other as jesus stated!The theif on the cross wasn't baptisted,POINT PROVEN.amen

Only to those who believe Jesus died to excuse sin, which is a whole other heresy.

re-read John 3:16,2 corithians 5:19 and many other passages.He died for the WHOLE WORLDS SIN!not a select few!Jesus died to TAKE AWAY SIN,I'm sorry you reject Gods word on this.

Only if we accept it and fulfill our end of our baptismal vows.

Nope,that old covenant Law.The Law or Works.Sorry bro works will never save!

False. Repent means to change our ways, not our minds. We can say "that is wrong" all we like, but if we do it, we can still say "that is wrong" yet it doesn't mean we've repented that we did what sin we did.

So who then is lying to oneself?

Re-read strongs greek dictionary again.You are wrong he is correct.Unless you claiming your a read and understand greek now?

Montanism, not orthodoxy.

Mens words mean nothing to me.

1. Does God work by CF rules? (no offense, Erwin)
2. You don't know what the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is or means then by what you've said. It is the Church that was established by God through the Holy Spirit on Pentecost.

So you claiming the mods lied then?

No one is righteous, or did the Holy Spirit lie to St. Paul?

? prove it!

Sin is a constant thread while we still have free will. We sin all the time; that is a part of our broken nature. If you do not repent, you will not be forgiven.

Nope,God doesn't let man put conditions on his forgiveness!God is making sure you have no part His plan,its grace or works.He has chosen Grace over works.Add to what he did all you want,it wont do anything for you.

Sorry; God doesn't bestow "cheap Grace."

God choses what Grace is not you!

Only if we warrant it.

Human warrant nothing.When will you accept this?Pride comes before a Fall.

Sorry; I do not pick-and-choose. I go by orthodoxy.

Again a man made word not found in the bible!

Dude, you obviously do not know the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant are then. We still must follow God's Laws, even if they aren't the whole Torah anymore. Jesus came to fulfill God's Law.

God done away with the old covenant and it is almost passed away.You Made the old covenant into the new.

Illogical according to the story. The pharisees said Jesus was possessed, not that He didn't listen to God.

They blashemed the holy spirit who leads all to christ!

It is impossible for a non-Christian to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. First, they'd have to acknowledge the Holy Spirit's existance in an orthodox sense. That means they must have been orthodox Christians at one point. And when they aren't anymore, they've obviously then rejected the orthodox view of the Holy Spirit, so it is all back to square one again.

Sure they can.The Holy Spirit tell all about christ.One can turn there back to that testamony and that blasphmey.

You do realize that the Early Church used a liturgical service, yes? Do you know what liturgy means?

You have no way to know anything about the early church.But explain any ways.

Only if we do not forsake God's Covenant with us in our baptisms.

His new covenant is that you trust in Christ alone for salvation apart from ALL WORKS!

Then you reject the Scripture where God gave the Apostles authority and establishing the Church?

I reject that its the Rcc,or occ.Its a body of all believers in christ Jesus not a Orginizaton headed by a man.

 

[rugerfann]

Most? Please...

Most that know greek disagree with you.

Please Don't tell me you know greek better than them.

 

[rugerfann]

Certainly it would be foolish to ask God to forgive you for something that is forgiven.

Ok.we are in agreement on that then.

Okay what happens when I rack up another 100,000,000 in debt after you forgive me for the first debt? I accept the first payment, thank you! Do you just pay any further debts like direct deposit or do I ask you for that forgiveness? I asked you to forgive the first debt why would I not in any further incurring debts?

Because god lives out side time and new the exact dept you run up.So he forgave it all through Christ Jesus.

Or do you believe we do not sin once we are Christians?

I sin everyday if not every minute!And god in his mercy forgave all my past,present and future sins!

Agreed, but man should also not forget that even though we are new creatures, we still have a tendency to sin, and need forgiveness from that sin as we did past sins.

I agree we still sin.But I already have been forgiven for all my sins,not just some.

I have never met anyone that thought this way about forgiveness. If you do not mind, what denomination are you in, so that I may study on my own what it is you believe?

I'm not in one.I'll pm you.

 

[Borealis]

I seem to recall someone claiming on one of the first couple of pages that they had an 'open mind.'

After reading through this thread, my response can only be, 'yeah, right.'

Try this on for size. Biblical references galore, pointing out Christ's teachings clearly and distinctly.

James 5:16 - James clearly teaches us that we must “confess our sins to one another,” not just privately to God. James 5:16 must be read in the context of James 5:14-15, which is referring to the healing power (both physical and spiritual) of the priests of the Church. Hence, when James says “therefore” in verse 16, he must be referring to the men he was writing about in verses 14 and 15 – these men are the ordained priests of the Church, to whom we must confess our sins.

Acts 19:18 - many came to orally confess sins and divulge their sinful practices. Oral confession was the practice of the early Church just as it is today.

Matt. 3:6; Mark 1:5 - again, this shows people confessing their sins before others as an historical practice (here to John the Baptist).

1 Tim. 6:12 - this verse also refers to the historical practice of confessing both faith and sins in the presence of many witnesses.

1 John 1:9 - if we confess are sins, God is faithful to us and forgives us and cleanse us. But we must confess our sins to one another.

Num. 5:7 - this shows the historical practice of publicly confessing sins, and making public restitution.

2 Sam. 12:14 - even though the sin is forgiven, there is punishment due for the forgiven sin. David is forgiven but his child was still taken (the consequence of his sin).

Neh. 9:2-3 - the Israelites stood before the assembly and confessed sins publicly and interceded for each other.

Sir. 4:26 - God tells us not to be ashamed to confess our sins, and not to try to stop the current of a river. Anyone who has experienced the sacrament of reconciliation understands the import of this verse.

Baruch 1:14 - again, this shows that the people made confession in the house of the Lord, before the assembly.

1 John 5:16-17; Luke 12:47-48 - there is a distinction between mortal and venial sins. This has been the teaching of the Catholic Church for 2,000 years, but, today, most Protestants no longer agree that there is such a distinction. Mortal sins lead to death and must be absolved in the sacrament of reconciliation. Venial sins do not have to be confessed to a priest, but the pious Catholic practice is to do so in order to advance in our journey to holiness.

Matt. 5:19 - Jesus teaches that breaking the least of commandments is venial sin (the person is still saved but is least in the kingdom), versus mortal sin (the person is not saved).

How anyone can blatantly ignore Christ's teachings and substitute edited verses to justify an untenable belief is beyond me.

 

[filosofer]

Most that know greek disagree with you.

Please don't give me any bull that you know greek better than them.

Well, I know and read Greek. You still haven't addressed any question or statement I have made in this discussion. Your arrogance is wearing a little thin.

You have no way to know anything about the early church.

I'm not sure if you are writing this out of ignorance, but have you read anything by the Early Church Fathers? Btw the ECF are not Roman Catholic nor Orthodox, but are nevertheless Church fathers for all Christians today, even if today's Christians aren't aware of it. Have you ever studied the historic liturgy? This has nothing to do with RCC or EO (I'm neither). But it does have to do with history and the role of Word and Sacrament in the life of the individual and the Church throughout history.

 

[rugerfann]

Well, I know and read Greek. You still haven't addressed any question or statement I have made in this discussion. Your arrogance is wearing a little thin.

what was yer question?

On repent,its a fact it means in greek to change yer mind!

I'm not sure if you are writing this out of ignorance, but have you read anything by the Early Church Fathers? Btw the ECF are not Roman Catholic nor Orthodox, but are nevertheless Church fathers for all Christians today, even if today's Christians aren't aware of it. Have you ever studied the historic liturgy? This has nothing to do with RCC or EO (I'm neither). But it does have to do with history and the role of Word and Sacrament in the life of the individual and the Church throughout history.

Nope

I do believe the ana-baptists where the some the first christian churches though,they went into hiding from the Rcc so alot is very hard to prove.

 

[rugerfann]

I seem to recall someone claiming on one of the first couple of pages that they had an 'open mind.'

After reading through this thread, my response can only be, 'yeah, right.'

same can be said about you.

Try this on for size. Biblical references galore, pointing out Christ's teachings clearly and distinctly.

James 5:16 - James clearly teaches us that we must “confess our sins to one another,” not just privately to God. James 5:16 must be read in the context of James 5:14-15, which is referring to the healing power (both physical and spiritual) of the priests of the Church. Hence, when James says “therefore” in verse 16, he must be referring to the men he was writing about in verses 14 and 15 – these men are the ordained priests of the Church, to whom we must confess our sins.

Confessing one to another is fine.

Acts 19:18 - many came to orally confess sins and divulge their sinful practices. Oral confession was the practice of the early Church just as it is today.

Matt. 3:6; Mark 1:5 - again, this shows people confessing their sins before others as an historical practice (here to John the Baptist).

1 Tim. 6:12 - this verse also refers to the historical practice of confessing both faith and sins in the presence of many witnesses.

No problem with these,confession is fine to another.

1 John 1:9 - if we confess are sins, God is faithful to us and forgives us and cleanse us. But we must confess our sins to one another.

This is to gnostics in the church then!

Num. 5:7 - this shows the historical practice of publicly confessing sins, and making public restitution.

2 Sam. 12:14 - even though the sin is forgiven, there is punishment due for the forgiven sin. David is forgiven but his child was still taken (the consequence of his sin).

Neh. 9:2-3 - the Israelites stood before the assembly and confessed sins publicly and interceded for each other.

Sir. 4:26 - God tells us not to be ashamed to confess our sins, and not to try to stop the current of a river. Anyone who has experienced the sacrament of reconciliation understands the import of this verse.

Baruch 1:14 - again, this shows that the people made confession in the house of the Lord, before the assembly.

Am I under the LAW?God forbid,first it was given to the Jew not to the gentiles.Seconf the old covenant is not in effect anymore.Please re-read hebrews.

1 John 5:16-17; Luke 12:47-48 - there is a distinction between mortal and venial sins. This has been the teaching of the Catholic Church for 2,000 years, but, today, most Protestants no longer agree that there is such a distinction. Mortal sins lead to death and must be absolved in the sacrament of reconciliation. Venial sins do not have to be confessed to a priest, but the pious Catholic practice is to do so in order to advance in our journey to holiness.

God has taken away those sins,so it doesnt matter.

Matt. 5:19 - Jesus teaches that breaking the least of commandments is venial sin (the person is still saved but is least in the kingdom), versus mortal sin (the person is not saved).

Old covenant still.New didn't go in effect till after his death.Please re-read all the gospel that state this.

How anyone can blatantly ignore Christ's teachings and substitute edited verses to justify an untenable belief is beyond me.

How you can still act we are under the old covenant is also beyound me.Re=read hebrews and the abolishment of the priesthood,Only priest that remains in Jesus.