Forgivness & Confession

[filosofer]

what was yer question?

On repent,its a fact it means in greek to change yer mind!

Well, obviously you didn't read my posts. So, thanks ...


In regard to whether you have read/studied early church history your response was:

Nope

I do believe the ana-baptists where the some the first christian churches though,they went into hiding from the Rcc so alot is very hard to prove.

You might consider doing a little study on your own - don't read a condensed booklet that has a theological axe to grind - read the ECF.

 

[rugerfann]

You might consider doing a little study on your own - don't read a condensed booklet that has a theological axe to grind - read the ECF.

Yea I understand the ana-baptists have a axe to grind.I whould expect anyone who founding father of there church have been murdered and persicuted to have a axe to grind,as well as the church responsible.

Whats the ecf?

 

[filosofer]

quot et demonstratum

 

[FreeinChrist]

Yea I understand the ana-baptists have a axe to grind.I whould expect anyone who founding father of there church have been murdered and persicuted to have a axe to grind,as well as the church responsible.

Whats the ecf?

ECF refers to the Early Church Fathers and one source for their works are here:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/

While they can be interesting to read, their works are not scripture. Also, when reading them, one needs to keep in mind what issues a particular writer was addressing and in what context.

 

[rugerfann]

ECF refers to the Early Church Fathers and one source for their works are here:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/

While they can be interesting to read, their works are not scripture. Also, when reading them, one needs to keep in mind what issues a particular writer was addressing and in what context.

Where is constantine in that mix?

 

[Qoheleth]

Where is constitine in that mix?

Peace

Q

 

[Veritas]

I do believe the ana-baptists where the some the first christian churches though,they went into hiding from the Rcc so alot is very hard to prove.

Probably because it's not true.

 

[Veritas]

It is a Work,but I never trusted it to save me.I know realize that is grieveuos to continualy ask him to do what he has already done.

Supose I paid 100,000,000 for a dept you owed.And you continuely asked me to pay the dept for you.I tell you,I paid the dept.And you continue to ask me,after a while I whould get grieved about it becuase you don't trust I paid it.And you still continue to ask.Basicaly you are it this point calling me a Liar.This is what man does to god,over and over,instead of thanking him.

Man should Thank God for what he has done,and stop asking him to do what he already has done.

Bad analogy. Every time you sin, you incure a new debt that you must pay, ie confess, repent of and ask for forgiveness.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Where is constantine in that mix?

Why would you consider St. Constantine one of the ECF?

Forgive me...

 

[Veritas]

If my brother or sister offends me, how many times must I forgive them?

 

[FreeinChrist]

Rugerfann,

Are you referring to the Roman Emperor Constantine I (306 - 337 A.D.)?

He is not regarded as an ECF regarding theology and it's development, that I know of.

As far as repenting and confession, I understand what you are saying about our sins being forgiven at the cross, and our future sins are forgiven as well as our past ones when we came to Christ. However, I believe that a person who is truly in Christ will be brought to remorse for the sins they commit and that Christ does want us to confess our sins that we commit to others as needed and to ask His forgiveness after we commit them. This is because that while we are spiritually saved, we are being 'sanctified', growing in holiness. We need to grow in Christ and gain the wisdom that comes from humbling ourselves before Christ and our brothers and sisters in admitting our struggles. I don't believe that Christ gets tired our repeated confessions to Him, but uses those confessions to give us wisdom and patience and understanding. In a like manner, those who suffer hardships of all kinds can gain wisdom from Christ from dealing with those hardships. We never quit growing.

 

[rugerfann]

Bad analogy. Every time you sin, you incure a new debt that you must pay, ie confess, repent of and ask for forgiveness.

Under the Law yes,under Grace no way!

 

[rugerfann]

Why would you consider St. Constantine one of the ECF?

Forgive me...

He started the rcc far as I can tell.He permited it to hapen so he had controll.

 

[ExOrienteLux]

Well, here's my last post in this thread before I unsubscribe.

I just feel that people should know that I've made a first today. Up till now, I haven't placed anyone on my ignore list. However, rugerfann has received the (perhaps dubious) honor of being the first person to go on my ignore list.

Congratulations!

+IC XC NIKA+
Phillip

 

[rugerfann]

Rugerfann,

Are you referring to the Roman Emperor Constantine I (306 - 337 A.D.)?

He is not regarded as an ECF regarding theology and it's development, that I know of.

As far as repenting and confession, I understand what you are saying about our sins being forgiven at the cross, and our future sins are forgiven as well as our past ones when we came to Christ. However, I believe that a person who is truly in Christ will be brought to remorse for the sins they commit and that Christ does want us to confess our sins that we commit to others as needed and to ask His forgiveness after we commit them. This is because that while we are spiritually saved, we are being 'sanctified', growing in holiness. We need to grow in Christ and gain the wisdom that comes from humbling ourselves before Christ and our brothers and sisters in admitting our struggles. I don't believe that Christ gets tired our repeated confessions to Him, but uses those confessions to give us wisdom and patience and understanding. In a like manner, those who suffer hardships of all kinds can gain wisdom from Christ from dealing with those hardships. We never quit growing.

My problem is not Confession,But confession to get forgivness,this whould be works!and meriting your forgivness.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

He started the rcc far as I can tell.He permited it to hapen so he had controll.

You know that kind of looks that way on the surface doesn't it......

Not true however... I used to think he was to blame for a lot of things.. after further study though I found I was gravely mistaken....

The RCC started nearly 650 years after his death.

Lets start a thread on St. Constantine shall we?

Forgive me...

 

[SumTinWong]

I don't trust Strong's worth a darn for its ideological-biased entries.

Repent means changing one's behavior.

So if you do not trust strongs, then which greek to english dictionary do you get that definition?

Repent means to change ones mind.

 

[filosofer]

Take a look at BDAG to see the range of meaning.

 

[Archangel]

So how do you understand the Greek preposition in 2:38 EIS? IS that purpose or result?

Sorry I dont understand what you're talking about. I am only 17 and do not have a degree in theology.

Actually if you read the text of 1 Peter 3:21 baptism is not the symbol. And the NIV use of "symbol" that is a poor translation of the Greek word ANTITYPON. Try the NKJV:

"There is also an antitype which now saves us - baptism..."

Note that the previous thing (the saving through the water at the time of the flood) is the type, and it points to the greater thing - the "antitype", which is the saving through baptism.

So now we argue over translations? Well I cud say that the NKJV is a poor translation also. Many churches believe that baptisim is not required for salvation. Have they got it all wrong based on a mistranslation?

 

[filosofer]

Sorry I dont understand what you're talking about. I am only 17 and do not have a degree in theology.

Sorry, I have a habit of using abbreviations, and (wrongly) assume everyone else understands. Bauer-Danker-Arndt-Gingrich (abbreviated BDAG) is the standard Greek lexicon (dictionary) of the NT and post NT era for Greek. It was published as the 3rd ed in 2000. The 1979 edition is called BAGD. The reason for the order change of names is that in the most recent Danker was more critical in many revisions. BTW he was 94 when the book was published in 2000.

So now we argue over translations? Well I cud say that the NKJV is a poor translation also. Many churches believe that baptisim is not required for salvation. Have they got it all wrong based on a mistranslation?

Well, that is a problem with translations. Ultimately doctrine is decided based upon the Greek/Hebrew, not a translation. The NIV happens to not be the best in the verse (and several others). Thus, the advantage of having several English translations is not to claim "one is the best" but rather, how can they all help us better understand the underlying Greek/Hebrew.

Translations come from two different approaches to translation method: Formal Equivalence (often wrongly named word-for-word) and Meaning-Based.

Among FE translations are: NAS, NKJV,KJV, ESV, RSV,

Among the MB translations are: GW, NLT, NIV, NET, CEV, etc.

Thus, if you begin to compare several translations (good to get at least one from each group), then you can get a better grasp of the text.