Forgiveness

[RobertZ]

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RE: Im damned, I just know im damned.

Well, in that case, I'd suggest you use whatever time you have remaining to begin preparing yourself for the worst when you cross over to the other side. I'd also suggest that you find lots of interesting and stimulating things to do while you can.

I've been active on internet message boards for maybe twelve years now— beginning with Excite and Lycos, and eventually spreading out to Yahoo, then to Beliefnet, BibleForums, CrossWalk, and ChristianForums —and it's been my experience that most people, including professing Xians, haven't really given the Bible's hell much thought.

I just wish there were tour buses to the Bible's hell so people could see what's in store for them down there; and not only the degree of suffering that people can expect in the next life, but also Hell's impact upon the human mind.

There are people languishing in the Bible's hell this very moment, even as you read this, who have been there not only since the time of Christ, but since the Flood. I won't speculate on how many years that might be, but Egypt's first pyramid, the Step Pyramid of Djoser, was about 4,600 years ago. The damned from Djoser's era have not only spent 4,600 years in the Bible's hell already, but they have another 4,600 yet to go, and another 4,600 years to go after that. Even after existing in the Bible's hell for 100 million years, people will still have that many more years out ahead of them.

To put those 100m-year increments in perspective, if they were miles, they'd stretch out to the Sun with enough left over to make fifteen round trips to the Moon.

People in Hell go year, after year, after year, after year, with no vacations, no recreation, no reading materials, and no hobbies— there's absolutely nothing to do but reminisce and writhe in fire. The mental atrophy, and the boredom that must result from that kind of mindless existence is beyond estimation.

In life, everybody enjoys God's blessings; even the really bad people. We're all breathing fresh air, basking in sunshine, drinking cool water, savoring tasty foods, listening to birds chirp, star gazing at night, throwing snow balls at each other in winter, river rafting, fishing, snow skiing, tending gardens, pruning shrubs, greeting friends during the holidays, cheering for out favorite team during the World Series of Baseball, spending days with grandkids; and all that sort of thing. In the Bible's hell, there are no blessings of any kind at all: only perpetual sadness, vexation, despair, and want.

And the din: think of the volume of noise down there with all the wailing and sobbing, and the screams, shrieks, howls, yelps, and gnashing teeth. Conditions are really bad, and no one has a good attitude about it; and in that kind of environment, it's reasonable to expect quarrels, and ugly words exchanged between people. (Is there really any good reason to respect your fellow man's civil liberties in the Bible's hell; or to be courteous, kind, forgiving, and patient?) Everyone is sad, blue, and lonely; and after a few years of the conditions I've been describing, I should think most folks break, and go mad from the stress.

Time stands still in the Bible's hell: it's for the now; it's an existence. People who arrived there yesterday didn't begin doing time in stir like convicts serving sentences in prisons expecting to get out some day; nor is Hell a tour of duty like a year in Viet Nam. No, people in the Bible's hell are its perpetual residents.

But just imagine bringing with you a craving for tobacco with none available. Or longing for a cocktail with no liquor in sight. Or a sexual appetite with no way to satisfy it. A desire for music, with no way to produce it. A skill for writing, with no pen and paper. Yearning for a walk out in nature, with no world to do it in.

People in the Bible's hell will never again smell a sea breeze, sit in the shade of a tree, take deep breaths of mountain-fresh air, play at sports, hear a bird chirp, see a sunset, watch a lunar eclipse, jog in the park, strum a guitar, enjoy a Christmas dinner with loved ones; nor gobble barbecued spare ribs and corn on the 4th of July.

Sports and recreation are gone: no more world series, no more super bowl, no more Olympics, no more Las Vegas, no more Indian casinos, no more lottery, no more Lego World, no more Sea World, no more NASCAR, no more golf, no more surfing, et al.

No baths, no showers, no sleep, no TV, no radio, no iPods, no iPhones, no computers, no Twitters, no texting, no FaceBook, no YouTube, no MySpace, no internet, no clean sheets, no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. No snacks, no gum, no candy, no flowers, no parks, no rivers, no snow, no seasons, no picnics, no malls, no fast food, no trades, no careers, no trendy fashions, no jewelry, no cosmetics, no concerts, no operas, and no hobbies; absolutely nothing of this world that brings people the pleasures and the satisfactions of just being alive.

No pets are allowed in the Bible's hell and no flowers or vegetation of any kind. The absence of birds, fish, and animals of course precludes the citizens of Hell ever again spending a day at the zoo. The one advantage of the lack of pets and vegetation in Hell is the absence of fleas and allergies. I suppose you could say that's at least one good thing about it. There's a bright side to everything I guess; even to that place.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

Thanks, I feel so much better now.

 

[Webers_Home]

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RE: Did I commit the sin unto death? the one that scripture commands men not to pray about because God has given that person up?

The literal wording indicates a sin unto death; not a sin unto Hell, and it's located in John's first epistle. (1John 5:16-17)

The unique thing about John's first epistle is that it wasn't sent to the world at large, but rather, sent to a group of Christians who were already in possession of eternal life even before his letter arrived.

†. 1John 5:13 . .These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that you have eternal life.

Eternal life is a kind of life that cannot die; therefore, it's impervious to the wages of sin.

†. Rom 6:23 . . For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The "death" spoken of in 1John 5:16-17 has to be a death other than Hell because Jesus testified that people with eternal life are no longer in any danger of eternal suffering.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message, and rely upon God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from Death into Life.

However, though believers are no longer subject to the wages of sin, they are, nevertheless, subject to capital punishments as prescribed by State and Federal laws regulating felonies. Believers who commit capital crimes should be encouraged to man-up and face the consequences rather than expect sympathy from either their church or their Christian friends. Bleeding-heart Christians who pray for their life are not only attempting to obstruct justice, but also in shameful rebellion against the sovereign wishes of the very God whom they profess to worship and serve.

†. Rom 13:3-4 . . For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

But now, supposing you live in a despotic country like North Korea, China, or Zimbabwe and a believer is arrested and sentenced to death for nothing more serious than the political crime of dissent. Can you pray for that? Yes; because that's not one of the sins listed in the Bible worthy of capital punishment. But will your request be granted? Maybe and maybe not since successful prayer is dependent upon consistent obedience.

†. John 15:7 . . If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

†. 1John 3:22 . . And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

RE: Please dont derail this conversation with a bickering argument.

Good point. I was scolded for that very thing a few months ago by forum moderators. The "New Christians" area is for counseling and helpful suggestions; not for debating.

RE: Well your probably going to be shocked when I tell you this but I have been attending church all of my 36yrs on this earth and its a baptist church that I attend.

Sometimes software has to be installed more than once before it works properly. Do like I said, and contact a Conservative Baptist church. We're not looking to put your mind at rest, we're looking to get you out of the kill zone and into a zone where the wages of sin are impotent. First things first. After I'm sure that you're on your way to Heaven, then we'll work on calming your fears.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

 

[Webers_Home]

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RE: Thanks, I feel so much better now.

Sorry about the over-kill. I'm just trying to arouse your interest enough to make that call.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

 

[RobertZ]

.

Sometimes software has to be installed more than once before it works properly. Do like I said, and contact a Conservative Baptist church. We're not looking to put your mind at rest, we're looking to get you out of the kill zone and into a zone where the wages of sin are impotent. First things first. After I'm sure that you're on your way to Heaven, then we'll work on calming your fears.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

But as I stated I do currently attend a Baptist Church and its a conervative one at that.

 

[leveled]

Robert, I do not think you are getting very good advice here.

You won't "be ok" if you do exactly as the man said. Going to some church will not save you.

This is not the Gospel.

This is the Good News, my friend:
"For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person--though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die-- but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Rom 5:6-8)

You see, Christ came for such a man as yourself.

He did not come to save good people. He came to save bad people. Bad people, who know... that they are bad people.

"And Jesus answered them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." (Luk 5:31-32)

And also,

"Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind." (Joh 9:39)

The Pharisees believed they could "see". The Pharisees believed they have fulfilled God's Law. The Pharisees believed they were righteous.

And that is why they rejected the Messiah.

You see, we need Christ's righteousness, and that alone. And this is given to us by believing, by trusting, In Christ Himself. His Person (who he is) and His work (the life and death he lived.)

There is no other answer for you than that: The life and death of Jesus Christ.

It says in Hebrews that without the shedding of Blood, there is no remission of sins. That is why in the old testament they had sacrifices of goats and bulls. But these could not take away sins for good - they had to keep doing it over and over again.

But these things were looking forward to that great, perfect and final sacrifice of the God's very own son. The value of His blood is that it is able to cover all of the sins of all who will believe - and could cover even more than those.

The value of His shed blood is infinite.

There is no sin that cannot be cleansed by faith in this Man and what He has done.

There was a beautiful hymn we sang at church recently, that applies to you now. (and so many more like it.)

I just want you to know that you should have hope. NOT hope in yourself, or in your ability to repent or in your ability to make yourself right before God, or to change your ways, or to DO ANY THING.

But hope in CHRIST ALONE - and what HE has already done.

Put your hope in anything else, and you are deceived. So good: give up on yourself, and put all of your heavy load on Jesus, and let Him take it away.

The hymn I spoke of:

Christ our Redeemer died on the cross,
Died for the sinner, paid all his due;
Sprinkle your soul with the blood of the Lamb,
And "I will pass, will pass over you."​

Chorus:
"When I see the blood, When I see the blood,
When I see the blood, I will pass, I will pass over you.​

Chiefest of sinners Jesus will save -
All He has promised, that He will do;
Wash in the fountain opened for sin,
And "I will pass, will pass over you."​

Chorus:
"When I see the blood, When I see the blood,
When I see the blood, I will pass, I will pass over you.​

Judgment is coming, all will be there,
Each one receiving justly his due;
Hide in the saving, sin cleansing blood,
And "I will pass, will pass over you."​

Chorus:
"When I see the blood, When I see the blood,
When I see the blood, I will pass, I will pass over you.​

O great compassion! O boundless love!
O loving kindness, faithful and true!
Find peace and shelter under the blood,
And "I will pass, will pass over you."​

Chorus:
"When I see the blood, When I see the blood,
When I see the blood, I will pass, I will pass over you.​

 

[RobertZ]

Robert, I do not think you are getting very good advice here.

You won't "be ok" if you do exactly as the man said. Going to some church will not save you.

This is not the Gospel.

This is the Good News, my friend:
"For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person--though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die-- but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Rom 5:6-8)

You see, Christ came for such a man as yourself.

He did not come to save good people. He came to save bad people. Bad people, who know... that they are bad people.

"And Jesus answered them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." (Luk 5:31-32)

And also,

"Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind." (Joh 9:39)

The Pharisees believed they could "see". The Pharisees believed they have fulfilled God's Law. The Pharisees believed they were righteous.

And that is why they rejected the Messiah.

You see, we need Christ's righteousness, and that alone. And this is given to us by believing, by trusting, In Christ Himself. His Person (who he is) and His work (the life and death he lived.)

There is no other answer for you than that: The life and death of Jesus Christ.

It says in Hebrews that without the shedding of Blood, there is no remission of sins. That is why in the old testament they had sacrifices of goats and bulls. But these could not take away sins for good - they had to keep doing it over and over again.

But these things were looking forward to that great, perfect and final sacrifice of the God's very own son. The value of His blood is that it is able to cover all of the sins of all who will believe - and could cover even more than those.

The value of His shed blood is infinite.

There is no sin that cannot be cleansed by faith in this Man and what He has done.

There was a beautiful hymn we sang at church recently, that applies to you now. (and so many more like it.)

I just want you to know that you should have hope. NOT hope in yourself, or in your ability to repent or in your ability to make yourself right before God, or to change your ways, or to DO ANY THING.

But hope in CHRIST ALONE - and what HE has already done.

Put your hope in anything else, and you are deceived. So good: give up on yourself, and put all of your heavy load on Jesus, and let Him take it away.

The hymn I spoke of:

Christ our Redeemer died on the cross,
Died for the sinner, paid all his due;
Sprinkle your soul with the blood of the Lamb,
And "I will pass, will pass over you."​

Chorus:
"When I see the blood, When I see the blood,
When I see the blood, I will pass, I will pass over you.​

Chiefest of sinners Jesus will save -
All He has promised, that He will do;
Wash in the fountain opened for sin,
And "I will pass, will pass over you."​

Chorus:
"When I see the blood, When I see the blood,
When I see the blood, I will pass, I will pass over you.​

Judgment is coming, all will be there,
Each one receiving justly his due;
Hide in the saving, sin cleansing blood,
And "I will pass, will pass over you."​

Chorus:
"When I see the blood, When I see the blood,
When I see the blood, I will pass, I will pass over you.​

O great compassion! O boundless love!
O loving kindness, faithful and true!
Find peace and shelter under the blood,
And "I will pass, will pass over you."​

Chorus:
"When I see the blood, When I see the blood,
When I see the blood, I will pass, I will pass over you.​

Thanks so very much, perhaps I am looking at myself too much?

 

[leveled]

That would definitely cause you much consternation, yes.

Salvation is not found in yourself, it is found outside of yourself.

The apostle Paul himself said:

"For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin." (Rom 7:18-25)

We look out of ourselves, and up, to Christ on the cross.

There we see the love of God displayed, and the justice of God satisfied. All of God's wrath against sin was poured out upon the Son, as Christ himself became "sin in the flesh."

Sin judged.

It was there that we who are in Christ died. And in His resurrection, we live and are alive.

You must cling to Him, and look away from yourself. He alone is powerful, and gracious, and most capable of saving you from all of your enemies and all of your sins.

 

[leveled]

Some reading that you might find edifying on these points:

Mr. Humble Heart: Good morning, Sir. May I beg the favor of an hour of your valuable time?"

Editor: "Come in, and welcome. What can I do for you?"

Mr. Humble Heart: "I am sore troubled in spirit: I long so much to be able to call God ‘my Father,’ but I fear I might be guilty of lying were I to do so. There are many times when I have a little hope that He has begun a good work within me, but alas, for the most part, I find such a mass of corruption working within, that I feel sure I have never been made a new creature in Christ. My heart is so cold and hard toward God, that it seems impossible the Holy Spirit could have shed abroad God’s love in me; unbelief and doubtings so often master me, that it would be presumptuous to think I possess the faith of God’s elect. Yet I want to love Him, trust Him, serve Him; but it seems I cannot."

Editor: "I am very glad you called. It is rare indeed to meet with an honest soul these days."

Mr. Humble Heart: "Excuse me, Sir, but I do not want you to form a wrong impression of me: an honest heart is the very blessing I crave, but I am painfully conscious, from much clear evidence, that I possess it not. My heart is deceitful above all things, and I am full of hypocrisy. I have often begged God to make me holy, and right after, my actions proved that I did not mean what I said. I have often thanked God for His mercies, and then have soon fretted and murmured when His providence crossed my will. I had quite a battle before I came here to see you tonight, as to whether I was really seeking help, or as to whether my secret desire was to win your esteem; and I am not sure now which was my real motive."

Mr. Humble Heart: "To come to the point, Sir, if I am not intruding. I have read and re-read your articles on ‘Assurance’ which appeared in last year’s magazines. Some things in those articles seemed to give me a little comfort, but other things almost drove me to despair. Sometimes your description of a born-again soul agreed with my own experience, but at other times I seemed as far from measuring up to it as the poles are asunder. So I do not know where I am. I have sought to heed 2 Corinthians 13:5 and ‘examine’ myself, and when I did so, I could see nothing but a mass of contradictions; or, it would be more accurate to say, for each one thing I found which seemed to show that I was regenerate, I found ten things to prove that I could not be so. And now, Sir, I’m mourning night and day, for I feel of all men the most miserable."

Editor: "Hypocrites are not exercised about their motives, nor troubled over the deceitfulness of their hearts! At any rate, I am thankful to see you so deeply concerned about your soul’s eternal interests."

Mr. Humble Heart: "alas, Sir, I am not half as much concerned about them as I ought to be. That is another thing which occasions me much anguish. When the Lord Jesus tells us that the human soul is worth more than the whole world put together (Mark 8:36), I feel that I must be thoroughly blinded by Satan and completely under the dominion of sin, seeing that I am so careless. It is true that at times I am alarmed about my state and fearful that I shall soon be in Hell; at times too, I seem to seek God more earnestly and read His Word more diligently; but alas, my goodness is ‘as a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away’ (Hosea 6:4). The cares of this life soon crowd out thoughts of the life to come. O Sir, I want reality, not pretense; I want to make sure, yet I cannot."

Editor: "That is not so simple a task as many would have us believe."

Mr. Humble Heart: "It certainly is not. I have consulted several Bible-teachers, only to find them ‘physicians of no value’ (Job 13:4); I have also conferred with some who boasted that they never have a doubt, and they quoted to me Acts 16:31, and on telling them I did believe, they cried ‘Peace, peace,’ and there was no peace in my heart."

Editor: "Ah, dear friend, it is not without reason that God has bidden us ‘give diligence to make your calling and election sure’ (2 Peter 1:10). And even after we have given diligence, we still need the Holy Spirit to bear ‘witness with our spirit that we are the children of God’ (Romans 8:16). Moreover, spiritual assurance may easily be lost, or at least be clouded, as is evident from the case of him who wrote the 23rd Psalm, for at a later date he had to cry unto God, ‘Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation.’"

Editor: "Before proceeding further, had we not better seek the help of the Lord? His holy Word says, ‘In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths’ (Proverbs 3:6). And now, dear Brother, for such I am assured you really are, What is it that most causes you to doubt that you have passed from death unto life?"

Mr. Humble Heart: "My inward experiences, the wickedness of my heart, the many defeats I encounter daily."

Editor: "Perhaps you are looking for perfection in the flesh."

Mr. Humble Heart: "No, hardly that, for I know the ‘flesh’ or old nature is still left in the Christian. But I have met with some who claim to be living ‘the victorious life,’ who say they never have a doubt, never a rising of anger, discontent, or any wicked feelings or desires; that Christ so controls them that unclouded peace and joy is theirs all the time.

Editor: "Bear with me if I speak plainly, but such people are either hypnotized by the Devil, or they are fearful liars. God’s Word says, ‘If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us’ (1 John 1:8). And again, ‘There is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not’ (Ecclesiastes 7:20). And again, ‘In many things we offend all’ (James 3:2). The beloved apostle Paul, when well advanced in the Christian life, declared, ‘I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members’" (Romans 7:21-23).

Mr. Humble Heart: "That relieves my mind somewhat, yet it scarcely reaches the root of my difficulty. What troubles me so much is this: when God regenerates a man, he becomes a new creature in Christ Jesus: the change wrought in him is so great that it is termed a ‘passing from death unto life.’ It is obvious that if God the Holy Spirit dwells in a person, there must be a radical difference produced, both inwardly and outwardly, from what he was before. Now it is this which I fail to find in myself. Instead of being any better than I was a year ago, I feel I am worse. Instead of humility filling my heart, so often pride rules it; instead of lying passive like clay in the Potter’s hand to be moulded by Him, I am like a wild ass’s colt; instead of rejoicing in the Lord alway, I am frequently filled with bitterness and repinings."

 

[leveled]

Editor: "Such experiences as you describe are very sad and humbling, and need to be mourned over and confessed to God. They must never be excused nor glossed over. Nevertheless, they are not incompatible with the Christian state. Rather are they so many proofs that he who is experimentally acquainted with the ‘plague of his own heart’ (1 Kings 8:38) is one in experience with the most eminent of God’s saints. Abraham acknowledged he was ‘dust and ashes’ (Genesis 18:27). Job said, ‘1 abhor myself’ (Job 42:6). David prayed ‘Have mercy upon me, O Lord; for I am weak: O Lord, heal me; for my bones are vexed’ (Psalm 6:2). Isaiah exclaimed ‘Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips’ (Isaiah 6:5). In the anguish of his heart, Jeremiah asked, ‘Wherefore came I forth out of the womb to see labor and sorrow, that my days should be consumed with shame?’ (Jeremiah 20:18). Daniel once owned, ‘There remained no strength in me, for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption’ (Daniel 10:8). Paul cried, ‘O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Romans 7:24). "One of the principal things which distinguishes a regenerate person from an unregenerate one may be likened unto two rooms which have been swept but not dusted. In one, the blinds are raised and the sunlight streams in, exposing the dust still lying on the furniture. In the other, the blinds are lowered, and one walking through the room would be unable to discern its real condition. Thus it is in the case of one who has been renewed by the Spirit: his eyes have been opened to see the awful filth which lurks in every corner of his heart. But in the case of the unregenerate, though they have occasional twinges of conscience when they act wrongly, they are very largely ignorant of the awful fact that they are a complete mass of corruption unto the pure eyes of the thrice holy God. It is true that an unregenerate person may be instructed in the truth of the total depravity of fallen man, and he may ‘believe’ the same, yet his belief does not humble his heart, fill him with anguish, make him loathe himself, and feel that Hell is the only place which is fit for him to dwell in. But it is far otherwise with one who sees light in God’s light (Psalm 36:9); he will not so much as lift up his eyes to Heaven, but smites upon his leprous breast, crying ‘God be merciful to me the sinner.’"
Mr. Humble Heart: "Would you kindly turn to the positive side, and give me a brief description of what characterizes a genuine Christian."
Editor: "Among other gifts, every real Christian has such a knowledge of God in Christ, as works by love, that he is stirred up to earnestly inquire after the will of God and studies His Word to learn that will, having a sincere desire and making an honest endeavor to live in the faith and practice of it."
Mr. Humble Heart: "I cannot boast of my knowledge of God in Christ, yet by Divine grace this I may say: that I desire no other Heaven on earth than to know and to do God’s will, and be assured that I have His approval."
Editor: "That is indeed a good sign that your soul has been actually renewed, and doubtless He who has begun a work of grace in your heart, will make the great change manifest in your life and actions. No matter what he thinks or says, no unregenerate man really desires to live a life which is pleasing to God."
Mr. Humble Heart: God forbid that I should flatter myself, yet I hope I have often found delight when reading God’s Word or hearing it preached, and I do sincerely meditate upon it, and long that I may ‘grow in grace.’ Yet, at times, I am tempted with vain and vile thoughts, and I strive to banish them, my heart rising up against them; yet sometimes I yield to them. I loathe lying and cursing, and cannot endure the company of those who hate practical godliness; yet my withdrawal from them seems nothing but pharisaical hypocrisy, for I am such a miserable failure myself. I pray to God for deliverance from temptation and for grace to resist the Devil, but I fear that I do not have His ear, for more often than not I am defeated by sin and Satan."
Editor: "When you thus fail in your duty, or fall into sin, what do you think of yourself and your ways? How are you affected therewith?"
Mr. Humble Heart: "When I am in this deplorable condition, my soul is grieved; my joy of heart and peace of conscience gone. But when I am a little recovered out of this sinful lethargy, my heart is melted with sorrow over my folly; and I address myself to God with great fear and shame, begging Him to forgive me, pleading 1 John 1:9, and humbly imploring Him to ‘renew a right spirit within me."’
Editor: "And why is it that you are so troubled when sin conquers you?"
Mr. Humble Heart: "Because I truly wish to please the Lord, and it is my greatest grief when I realize that I have dishonored and displeased Him. His mercy has kept me, thus far, from breaking out into open and public sins, yet there is very much within which I know He hates."
Editor: "Well, my dear brother and companion in the path of tribulation, God has ordained that the Lamb shall be eaten with ‘bitter herbs’ (Exodus 12:8). So it was with the apostle: ‘As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing’ (2 Corinthians 6:10) summed up his dual experience: ‘sorrowful’ over his sinful failures, both of omission and commission; yet ‘rejoicing’ over the provisions which Divine grace has made for us while we are in this dreary desert—the Mercy-seat ever open to us, whither we may draw near, unburden our heavy hearts, and pour out our tale of woe; the Fountain which has been opened ‘for sin and for uncleanness’ (Zechariah 13:1), whither we may repair for cleansing. I am indeed thankful to learn that your conscience confirms what your tongue has uttered. You have expressed enough to clearly evidence that the Holy Spirit has begun a good work in your soul. But I trust you also have faith in the Lord Jesus, the Mediator, by whom alone any sinner can draw near unto God."
Mr. Humble Heart: "By Divine grace I do desire to acknowledge and embrace the Lord Jesus upon the terms on which He is proclaimed in the Gospel: to believe all his doctrine as my Teacher, to trust in and depend upon the atoning sacrifice which He offered as the great High Priest, and to submit to His rule and government as King. But, alas, in connection with the last ‘to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not’" (Romans 7:18).
Editor: "No real Christian ever attains his ideal in this life; he never reaches that perfect standard which God has set before us in His Word, and which was so blessedly exemplified in the life of Christ. Even the apostle Paul, near the close of his life, had to say, ‘Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus’ (Philippians 3:12). But may I ask if you are sensible of how you arrived at the good desires you mentioned? Do you suppose that such a disposition is natural to you, or that it has resulted from your own improvement of your faculties?"
Mr. Humble Heart: "No, Sir, I dare not ascribe to nature that which is the effect and fruit of Divine grace. If I have any measure of sanctification (which is what I long to be assured of), then it can only be by the gift and operation of God. I am too well acquainted with my wretched self: I know too well that by nature I am alive to vanity and sin, but dead to God and all real goodness; that folly possesses my soul, darkness shrouds my understanding; that I am utterly unable to will or to do what is pleasing in God’s sight, and that my natural heart is set contrary to the way of salvation proposed in the Gospel, rising up against its flesh—condemning precepts and commandments. I see, I know, I feel that in me, that is in my flesh, there dwelleth no good thing."
Editor: "Then do you realize what must be the outcome if God were to leave you unto yourself?"
Mr. Humble Heart: "Yes, indeed. Without the assistance of His Holy Spirit, I should certainly make shipwreck of the faith. My daily prayer is ‘Hold Thou me up, and I shall be safe’ (Psalm 119:117). My earnest desire is that I may watch and pray against every temptation. There is nothing I dread more than apostatizing, relaxing in my duty, returning to wallow in the mire."
Editor: "These are all plain evidences of the saving grace of God at work within you, which I beseech Him to continue, so that you may be preserved with a tender conscience, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, and obtain a full assurance of His love for you."
Mr. Humble Heart: "I thank you kindly, Sir, for your patience and help. What you have said makes me feel lighter in heart, but I wish to go home and prayerfully ponder the same, for I dare take no man‘s word for it. I want God Himself to ‘say unto my soul, I am thy salvation’ (Psalm 35:3). Will you not pray that it may please Him to do so?"
Editor: "You shall certainly have a place in my feeble petitions. The Lord be very gracious unto you."

 

[RobertZ]

Thanks leveled, that was a very good read and it seemed as though it was written just for me!

Seems like I am looking to myself and trusting in feelings far to much. So many people claim to have felt something great after they were saved but I actually didnt feel any different at all which was one of the reasons that I was worried if it really happened or not.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
RE: But as I stated I do currently attend a Baptist Church and its a conervative one at that.

I have not been talking about church attendance; and I've absolutely no clue where you and your friends bsd31 and leveled got the idea I was. I have been urging you to make an appointment with a Conservative Baptist pastor and talk to him one-on-one about your fear of going to Hell. You don't want to? Fine. But either way, I'm out of here as I'm beginning to suspect you have not been sincere, but rather, have been covertly phishing for chat.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

 

[RobertZ]

.
RE: But as I stated I do currently attend a Baptist Church and its a conervative one at that.

I have not been talking about church attendance; and I've absolutely no clue where you and your friends bsd31 and leveled got the idea I was. I have been urging you to make an appointment with a Conservative Baptist pastor and talk to him one-on-one about your fear of going to Hell. You don't want to? Fine. But either way, I'm out of here as I'm beginning to suspect you have not been sincere, but rather, have been covertly phishing for chat.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

Wow, do me a favor and never ever post another thing to me ever again. I am being sincere and I am very worried so how dare you judge me like that!

And if you would take the time to read instead of jumping to conclusions and being completely rude and judgmental you would see that I stated I had been to counselor after counselor concerning this issue and have gotten no where in the process of doing so. I can see that im certainly talking to the wrong person by asking you for advice so I will cease to do so.

 

[leveled]

Well, rather than worry if "it really happened" - focus on what you believe "right now".

We are saved by faith in something that happened, yes - but it is not something that happened to us.

It is something that happened to Jesus, something that He did 2,000 years ago in Israel. That is what really happened.

If you believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, that He is the Christ - if you trust His words that... if you believe in Him, He will save you...

He will save you.

Do you believe this? I think you do. So believe it.

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
(Joh 6:37-40)

 

[leveled]

Webers, I do believe your heart is certainly in the right place. I had no intention of impugning any of your motives.

I simply felt that what the man needed was not an appointment "somewhere, later" but rather The Gospel, right here, right now.

Because "it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."

There is no time like the present.

I just like to cut to the chase.

 

[RobertZ]

Webers, I do believe your heart is certainly in the right place.

I thought it was too at first until he took everything that you and I said completely out of context and then accused me of just looking for conversation and not being sincere.

He doesnt know the first thing about my heart or the hell that I have been going through for nearly a year now and not many people seem to understand it which is probably due to the fact that most people are not stupid enough to harden their heart to God up to the point that he gives up on the person.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

God has not given up on you Robert - but you seem to have given up on yourself. Have Faith Brother! It was only when I had given up that the Lord saved me in a powerful way! You cannot save yourself - but through Grace the Lord gives us Faith and through Faith we believe and through belief we are saved.

 

[RobertZ]

God has not given up on you Robert

But how do you know that? plenty of places in scripture show how God will eventually give up on a hard hearted stubborn sinner who will not heed his call.

 

[alexanderjc]

But how do you know that? plenty of places in scripture show how God will eventually give up on a hard hearted stubborn sinner who will not heed his call.

Hello Robert,

After reading your post I am in admiration of you. Listen son, and since I am 50 years old I don't think you would mind me calling you that, the mere fact that you are able to realize your faults mean that the Holy Spirit is working with you. If your heart was seared you wouldn't even care about your soul or your salvation.

God never gives up on us until we are no longer present in this world. Yes those who harden their hearts to the Lord He will give them over to Satan in hopes that through whatever he, meaning Satan, will do to them will cause them to see the error of their ways and come back to Him.

You are not without hope.

Understand that salvation is not a feeling and most of us don't get warm fuzzies after we have prayed the sinner's prayer and accepted Jesus into our lives. Christianity is a lifestyle for all of us who profess to be Children of God and in this lifestyle we face many ups and downs that God allows to happen to strengthen us and make us mature Christians so that He can use us.

If you have asked Jesus Christ to be Lord in your life and have repented of your sins He will do exactly what He said in His word. Trust Him and believe that He has saved you. If there aren't people in your life that have not had the ability to show compassion for what you are going through then it's time to have a change of your surroundings.

True christians are not defeated by anyone who has shown that they want to have a changed life with Christ. We don't give up on our own and we certainly will not give up on those who want to become part of the Body of Christ.

God loves you and He never left you, He's always been in the same place where you left Him waiting for you to return. He's just a prayer of repentance away my son. Just kneel down or raise your hands to Him now and tell Him that you are sorry for the sins that you have committed and ask Him to wash you with the Blood of Jesus and cleanse you from all unrighteousness.

He Will Answer You and Welcome You Home Again.

Forget about Hell is wasn't created for you but for the devil and his angels. Heaven is where you need to be and through Jesus Christ you and I will get there.

Love you

James

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Hello Robert,

After reading your post I am in admiration of you. Listen son, and since I am 50 years old I don't think you would mind me calling you that, the mere fact that you are able to realize your faults mean that the Holy Spirit is working with you. If your heart was seared you wouldn't even care about your soul or your salvation.

God never gives up on us until we are no longer present in this world. Yes those who harden their hearts to the Lord He will give them over to Satan in hopes that through whatever he, meaning Satan, will do to them will cause them to see the error of their ways and come back to Him.

You are not without hope.

Understand that salvation is not a feeling and most of us don't get warm fuzzies after we have prayed the sinner's prayer and accepted Jesus into our lives. Christianity is a lifestyle for all of us who profess to be Children of God and in this lifestyle we face many ups and downs that God allows to happen to strengthen us and make us mature Christians so that He can use us.

If you have asked Jesus Christ to be Lord in your life and have repented of your sins He will do exactly what He said in His word. Trust Him and believe that He has saved you. If there aren't people in your life that have not had the ability to show compassion for what you are going through then it's time to have a change of your surroundings.

True christians are not defeated by anyone who has shown that they want to have a changed life with Christ. We don't give up on our own and we certainly will not give up on those who want to become part of the Body of Christ.

God loves you and He never left you, He's always been in the same place where you left Him waiting for you to return. He's just a prayer of repentance away my son. Just kneel down or raise your hands to Him now and tell Him that you are sorry for the sins that you have committed and ask Him to wash you with the Blood of Jesus and cleanse you from all unrighteousness.

He Will Answer You and Welcome You Home Again.

Forget about Hell is wasn't created for you but for the devil and his angels. Heaven is where you need to be and through Jesus Christ you and I will get there.

Love you

James

AMEN!

 

[bsd31]

.
RE: But as I stated I do currently attend a Baptist Church and its a conervative one at that.

I have not been talking about church attendance; and I've absolutely no clue where you and your friends bsd31 and leveled got the idea I was. I have been urging you to make an appointment with a Conservative Baptist pastor and talk to him one-on-one about your fear of going to Hell. You don't want to? Fine. But either way, I'm out of here as I'm beginning to suspect you have not been sincere, but rather, have been covertly phishing for chat.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

I was/am calling you out on the fact that you are pushing the idea of him needing to speak with a conservative baptist pastor. As if no other pastor is capable of answering the questions about hell and salvation. I have no idea, nor do I care what denomination you attend church at. I have an issue when someone tries to put denomination and man's theology ahead of what scripture says and nowhere in scripture does it mention baptists being the source we should turn to for information.