Forgiveness: Why such an impossible command?

[Viren]

Alternately, forgiving is like telling the person you aren't important enough for it to matter.

How does drinking poison make you important? Your importance isn't determined by someone else.

 

[razzelflabben]

They didn't slaughter my parents, but what they did cost me dearly. For a couple of years afterward I was so bitter and filled with rage I entertained some VERY bad thoughts. I prayed for god to 'make them pay' and if He didn't then I would handle it myself. One of them in particular consumed my thinking. I gave serious thought to cashing in my own life in order to see to it he didn't get away with what he had done.

Fortunately, the right kind of people came into my life around that same time and I began to turn my attention elsewhere. That man never knew it, but people he didn't know saved his hide.

What they did to me has now been over 10 years ago. Although I'm not 'driven' like I was before, I can't even think about any of those people with out whispering the words, "I hope they burn in hell!" I've done it so much over the years its an automatic response anytime they even pass through my mind. I don't think there is any other way to describe how I feel other than 'hate'.

I have no desire to pray for these people or even hope they are ever saved.

Having said all that I know that Jesus had a very good reason for commanding his people to forgive and even go so far as to 'love thy enemy'. The problem for me is that the concept is so incredibly foreign to me I don't know how to proceed. What I'm looking for is more than just words or instruction, but something I can feel and understand. I can't see how I will ever be moved without something deeper.

I want to say some things to you, that in our modern society will sound harsh and "terrible" but they are said in Love and truth. Please rather than take offense, listen carefully and consider my words.

From experience, forgiveness can be difficult. I was abused as a child, molested as a teen, watched my kids be physically assaulted by the church for speaking about loving our enemies (biblical love) etc. Today, I can honestly say that I have forgiven, not just my abusers, but "God" as well. We have had our marriage almost fall apart because of sin, our son taken from our arms by death, etc. There has been much to forgive.

So, lesson one...if you don't forgive, it will kill you. I have seen many people die slow deaths because of bitterness and anger, in fact, much of my abuse as a kid was because my father was bitter and angry and refused to forgive what he thought was an offense. Learning to forgive isn't just about you and the other person, it is also about every person you come into contact with, including but not limited to your closest family. Lack of forgiveness will destroy you and those around you, so the first thing you need to do, is understand how harmful unforgiveness is, and in that understanding, desire to forgive. Notice, I didn't say forgive, the first step is to desire to forgive. Right now, your pride refuses to understand that forgiveness is something you should desire. You see your lack of desire to forgive as the good, the honorable, the noble, the justified, the "affects only me", but to see it that way, is to ignore the truth of forgiveness. Unforgiveness isn't just about you, it's about everyone in your life!

Secondly, once you decide that you want to forgive, you have to understand why this thing happened. The reality of why might hit home, which is one reason what I say may be taken offensively. Hurting others is an act of sin, but the ability to not hurt others is an act of God. Many people only have a head knowledge of who God is, and in that head knowledge they assent to the truth of God. But what they lack is a "circumcision" of the heart, that is a cutting away of the old man and his sinful ways and desires. By desiring to hold onto your anger and resentment, you have no more been circumcised in your heart than the people who hurt you. You are equally guilty, equally sinful, equally hurtful of someone else...without your heart being circumcised, you are no different than the ones who hurt you.

Thirdly, once you understand that you need God to cut off the sinful desires, and in that, learn to desire to forgive others, it's merely a matter of understanding what Christ told us on the cross..."Father, forgive them for they know not what they do"...you see, when you are the circumcised of heart, then the evil done to you, is really done to Christ and not you at all. IOW's the offense is Christ's, you as a child of the King are being attacked because you are a child of the King, not because of you as an individual. To attack a prince or a princess is a very serious crime in which your daddy the King will have His revenge in due time. You just have to trust Him to be your avenger.

Finally, when you let go of your evil desires, when you learn to trust God to be your avenger, when you learn to forgive, the feelings you desire will flood into your being and will consume you and you will wonder what took so long and why it was so hard in the first place.

May you learn to forgive, may you discover the peace that you have in Christ.

 

[oktornado]

One poster here accused me of being a bad person and not a Christian because I wasn't making it easy by saying, "Wow! Good advice! I've read that in the bible, but somehow when you repeated it it all made sense."

What I was looking for was a deeper insight gained through experience. Somebody that really saw the Lord's words put into action in their lives.

I've known for years that my bitter feelings were evil in nature. This is why I am here seeking the advice of Christians.

I wasn't offended in the slightest by what you had to say. You did a wonderful job of conveying your message. In fact I found it to be so well-worded that I'm going to print it out and keep it for a reminder. I don't know what you do, but I've seen pastor's that didn't handle the subject nearly so well.

Thank you!

 

[razzelflabben]

One poster here accused me of being a bad person and not a Christian because I wasn't making it easy by saying, "Wow! Good advice! I've read that in the bible, but somehow when you repeated it it all made sense."

What I was looking for was a deeper insight gained through experience. Somebody that really saw the Lord's words put into action in their lives.

I've known for years that my bitter feelings were evil in nature. This is why I am here seeking the advice of Christians.

I wasn't offended in the slightest by what you had to say. You did a wonderful job of conveying your message. In fact I found it to be so well-worded that I'm going to print it out and keep it for a reminder. I don't know what you do, but I've seen pastor's that didn't handle the subject nearly so well.

Thank you!

was gone for a while, answered your PM...God spoke through me to you, and that is a wonderful testimony to the grace and Love of a God whose more than we can put into words.

 

[orangeness365]

I won't be forgiven by God unless I ask for it.

They haven't and won't ever ask for it of me so I don't feel obligated to say, "Well folks, you are forgiven whether you wanted it or not!"

Once, years ago after they were sure they had gotten safely away with what they did one of them did call me up and say, "I called to ask for your forgiveness. I then said, "What do you want forgiveness for?"

Their immediate response.....

"I'm not admitting to anything!"


WORTHLESS PEOPLE!!!

My mom did that. She completely destroyed my brother's future and then she only said sorry three times, but if you ask what for, she denies everything. Did they break the law or something? There is a thing called justice too yaknow. People enter lawsuits all the time. Forgiveness is important, but so is justice, according to the law.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It's NOT impossible. It's a conscious WILLFUL decision that you Make to "Tear up the I.O.U." that you're holding against them - regardless of HOW you feel about it.

OR you can certainly hold on to it, and let it kill you. it's your decision, and it's not based on "Feeling" anything. JUST DO IT.

 

[razzelflabben]

Let's briefly talk about forgiveness as it applies to "being asked". Many people confuse forgiveness with reconciliation. Where they are closely connected, they are far from the same thing. On the cross, Christ asked God to forgive...they didn't ask to be forgiven, yet they were forgiven.

Reconciliation is the act of setting things right again, this requires asking for forgiveness. In fact, when we come to Christ, we are seeking reconciliation, which is forgiveness and more. Reconciliation could also be described as restoring and it is the goal of biblical Love, thus the reason Christ came in the first place. We can forgive someone who doesn't seek forgiveness, but it takes both parties to reconcile.

I myself have had to face this with my father on repeated instances. He will cry (Literally, which is a huge thing) then turn around and before the words are cold from his mouth, repeat the offense, been doing this with him for over 50 years now. Have another family member that can't stand me, her husband even approached me and told me to forget trying to reconcile because it's a spiritual matter in which even she doesn't know what she is upset about. Point is this, we can forgive whether anyone is sorry or not, but we can't reconcile/make things right, until both parties are willing to participate in the ministry of reconciliation. II Corinthians 5:11-21

 

[miamited]

Hi razzalflabben,

I just wanted to take a minute to encourage you in your response. I believe that what you have explained is exactly 'why' God tells us we need to learn to forgive every offense. It makes us more like Christ. Lack of forgiveness destroys us, not them.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[USCGrad90]

I struggle with figuring out whether I have really forgiven someone or not - especially when they do not admit wrongdoing or ask for forgiveness or reconciliation. I have had anger over issues with some people who never admit they did wrong or ask forgiveness. I eventually work this out and feel like I have forgiven them , but the relationship is not the same. I can greet these people, bear them no ill will, do not talk badly of them, but I am conciously wary of them and do not trust them. I am not certain if this means that I have not truly forgiven them or if I am simply being aware of and avoiding their nature.
My understanding of God's forgiveness is that it's like He treats our sin as if it never happened WHEN we ask Him - so - I understand and agree with oktornado when he says he is not compelled to seek them out and offer unconditional forgiveness - especially when they can not acknowledge any wrong doing to him. I feel that if I were to go to them and offer forgiveness to them - they would question why I am judging them when they can not conceive that they have done anything wrong.
I do differ on one main point in that I have prayed for the people that wronged me and asked that our issues be resolved and not affect our relationships with Christ.
I think praying for our enemies and our attitude is essential in being able to forgive and move on from the issues at hand.

 

[razzelflabben]

I struggle with figuring out whether I have really forgiven someone or not - especially when they do not admit wrongdoing or ask for forgiveness or reconciliation. I have had anger over issues with some people who never admit they did wrong or ask forgiveness. I eventually work this out and feel like I have forgiven them , but the relationship is not the same. I can greet these people, bear them no ill will, do not talk badly of them, but I am conciously wary of them and do not trust them. I am not certain if this means that I have not truly forgiven them or if I am simply being aware of and avoiding their nature.
My understanding of God's forgiveness is that it's like He treats our sin as if it never happened WHEN we ask Him - so - I understand and agree with oktornado when he says he is not compelled to seek them out and offer unconditional forgiveness - especially when they can not acknowledge any wrong doing to him. I feel that if I were to go to them and offer forgiveness to them - they would question why I am judging them when they can not conceive that they have done anything wrong.
I do differ on one main point in that I have prayed for the people that wronged me and asked that our issues be resolved and not affect our relationships with Christ.
I think praying for our enemies and our attitude is essential in being able to forgive and move on from the issues at hand.

Many people use the benchmark of Psalms 103:12 as the mark of true forgiveness. However, if you look at Psalms 103 it is referring to reconciliation.

One of the recurring problems I have (long story) is flashbacks. Because of these flashbacks, I think a lot about forgiveness and wonder if I have truly forgiven. But you have wisely acknowledged many of the things that marked Christ's forgiveness as He waited for reconciliation. For example, Christ loved...the goal or purpose of love, is (drum roll) reconciliation. In some of my situations, I don't want reconciliation of what the relationship should have been, that ship has sailed so to speak, however, I would love a relationship that was healthy and strong and peaceable, iow's with my father, I don't want him all of a sudden to become my father, but I would dearly love to have him become a friend. That is, to set things right between us. At 53, I don't need a dad, I need a man that can stop abusing, stop belittling, and start talking, start fellowshiping. It's about praying and desiring for them to come to the saving knowledge of Christ, that is reconciling with God and be willing to accept their reconciliation with me, if they so desire to work toward that.

Look at it this way, if someone has not reconciled, then you can't trust them to not repeat their behavior because there has been no change in them, only in you.

 

[louise sheinholtz]

Many people use the benchmark of Psalms 103:12 as the mark of true forgiveness. However, if you look at Psalms 103 it is referring to reconciliation.

One of the recurring problems I have (long story) is flashbacks. Because of these flashbacks, I think a lot about forgiveness and wonder if I have truly forgiven. But you have wisely acknowledged many of the things that marked Christ's forgiveness as He waited for reconciliation. For example, Christ loved...the goal or purpose of love, is (drum roll) reconciliation. In some of my situations, I don't want reconciliation of what the relationship should have been, that ship has sailed so to speak, however, I would love a relationship that was healthy and strong and peaceable, iow's with my father, I don't want him all of a sudden to become my father, but I would dearly love to have him become a friend. That is, to set things right between us. At 53, I don't need a dad, I need a man that can stop abusing, stop belittling, and start talking, start fellowshiping. It's about praying and desiring for them to come to the saving knowledge of Christ, that is reconciling with God and be willing to accept their reconciliation with me, if they so desire to work toward that.

Look at it this way, if someone has not reconciled, then you can't trust them to not repeat their behavior because there has been no change in them, only in you.

If you understood possession, you could see your father is possessed and needs an exorcism.
Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.

 

[98cwitr]

It's NOT impossible. It's a conscious WILLFUL decision that you Make to "Tear up the I.O.U." that you're holding against them - regardless of HOW you feel about it.

OR you can certainly hold on to it, and let it kill you. it's your decision, and it's not based on "Feeling" anything. JUST DO IT.

Some folks just dont have the heart for it

 

[razzelflabben]

If you understood possession, you could see your father is possessed and needs an exorcism.
Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.

I do understand possession and whether or not my father needs exorcised is not the topic of this thread. In fact, forgiveness is the topic and what I have had to forgive is only relavent as it applies to examples of how to forgive...let's keep this about how to forgive, okay? This is one of many reason I don't go into all the people I have had to learn to forgive, and for what....

 

[razzelflabben]

Some folks just dont have the heart for it

but God does, and God wants to do it through us....iow's in His power we can all learn to forgive

 

[louise sheinholtz]

I do understand possession and whether or not my father needs exorcised is not the topic of this thread. In fact, forgiveness is the topic and what I have had to forgive is only relavent as it applies to examples of how to forgive...let's keep this about how to forgive, okay? This is one of many reason I don't go into all the people I have had to learn to forgive, and for what....

I am on topic whether you see it or not. When a person is possessed it is not them treating someone wrong, but, the dark spirit in them, so understanding forgiveness comes naturally, not hard to forgive because you cannot forgive, only God can forgive.
One does not learn to forgive, it is an understanding that the person possessed can't help themselves. The only reason you don't want to go into all the people you had to forgive is because you judged them in the first place.
That is what happens when we play God.
You have no idea what your father has been suffering, if you did, you would not have judged him in the first place.


The only way one understands possession is to have experienced themselves, or have witnessed it themselves. You only know it intellectually.

 

[louise sheinholtz]

"I struggle with figuring out whether I have really forgiven someone or not "

If the memories are not gone, you have not forgiven. God cleans the slate of all past memories.

 

[razzelflabben]

I am on topic whether you see it or not. When a person is possessed it is not them treating someone wrong, but, the dark spirit in them, so understanding forgiveness comes naturally, not hard to forgive because you cannot forgive, only God can forgive.
One does not learn to forgive, it is an understanding that the person possessed can't help themselves. The only reason you don't want to go into all the people you had to forgive is because you judged them in the first place.
That is what happens when we play God.
You have no idea what your father has been suffering, if you did, you would not have judged him in the first place.


The only way one understands possession is to have experienced themselves, or have witnessed it themselves. You only know it intellectually.

I will not continue this discussion with you...if you read my previous posts, you would know that 1. I have forgiven, 2. I did so without judgment, 3. understanding why someone hurts another is part of what I said, 4. as to possession, PM me if you want to know my experiences and how I know much more than you judge me to know. Just because I don't see a demon under every rock, doesn't mean I don't know something about it. Now, can we get back to the topic at hand...how do we learn to forgive...1. we learn to forgive by allowing God to do it through us by the HS He places within us...that at least is the short version. If you read my previous post, your find a longer, more detailed version.

btw, you might want to refrain from judging what you do not know...

 

[razzelflabben]

"I struggle with figuring out whether I have really forgiven someone or not "

If the memories are not gone, you have not forgiven. God cleans the slate of all past memories.

scripture please....thanks...anxious to see it, personally I haven't found that scripture yet...

 

[louise sheinholtz]

I will not continue this discussion with you...if you read my previous posts, you would know that 1. I have forgiven, 2. I did so without judgment, 3. understanding why someone hurts another is part of what I said, 4. as to possession, PM me if you want to know my experiences and how I know much more than you judge me to know. Just because I don't see a demon under every rock, doesn't mean I don't know something about it. Now, can we get back to the topic at hand...how do we learn to forgive...1. we learn to forgive by allowing God to do it through us by the HS He places within us...that at least is the short version. If you read my previous post, your find a longer, more detailed version.

btw, you might want to refrain from judging what you do not know...

Okay, let's get back to forgiveness. The only reason we need to forgive is because we judged first. We cannot forgive, only God can forgive. All we can do it cry out to help our unforgiving natures., then he wipes away our sin and wipes away all memory from the past..
Only it was my mother, who I can only remember with deep compassion and sadness.
Other than that I have no past memories, it has been completely erased. I only judge righteously, so I do know more than you think.

 

[98cwitr]

but God does, and God wants to do it through us....iow's in His power we can all learn to forgive

Then we must receive a new heart in that case

Ezekiel 11:19
I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 18:31
Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?

Ezekiel 36:26
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.