Forgive

[Tellyontellyon]

Jesus said:
“This, then, is how you should pray:
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one."

He tells us simply to forgive.. no price has to be paid... we just let go.

But, for salvation, this view that in order to forgive, someone's blood must be spilt...
Why can't God simply let go and forgive... simply let go of the 'debt' as Jesus instructed.

 

[jacks]

Jesus is God. He spilt His own blood, so that all may all be forgiven, the debt has been paid.

 

[LaSorcia]

But, for salvation, this view that in order to forgive, someone's blood must be spilt...
Why can't God simply let go and forgive... simply let go of the 'debt' as Jesus instructed.

The life, death and resurrection of Christ was not an appeasement of an angry God. The Bible tells how the notion of killing something to appease God got started- the story of Cain and Abel. This custom was prevalent in many cultures around the world, not just in the Middle East. "Go and learn what this means- I desire mercy, not sacrifice."

 

[BeyondET]

Jesus said:
“This, then, is how you should pray:
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one."

He tells us simply to forgive.. no price has to be paid... we just let go.

But, for salvation, this view that in order to forgive, someone's blood must be spilt...
Why can't God simply let go and forgive... simply let go of the 'debt' as Jesus instructed.

God doesn't let go and forgive, that is why it's important to believe in the one who's blood was spilled.

 

[hedrick]

Jesus said:
“This, then, is how you should pray:
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one."

He tells us simply to forgive.. no price has to be paid... we just let go.

But, for salvation, this view that in order to forgive, someone's blood must be spilt...
Why can't God simply let go and forgive... simply let go of the 'debt' as Jesus instructed.

He can and does. You’re thinking of penal substitution. There are other ideas of what Jesus death accomplished.

 

[Sketcher]

He tells us simply to forgive.. no price has to be paid... we just let go.

But, for salvation, this view that in order to forgive, someone's blood must be spilt...
Why can't God simply let go and forgive... simply let go of the 'debt' as Jesus instructed.

• Since Christ did all the heavy lifting to pay the sin debts, I would consider the point moot.
• Since God has demonstrated more mercy than I am often willing to demonstrate, I'm not in a position to really challenge God on this.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

God doesn't let go and forgive, that is why it's important to believe in the one who's blood was spilled.

Is God immutable?

 

[BeyondET]

A good part of the phrase is this. if you can't do the bold below there is no point in repeating it. i'm not talking about some of the debtors but all the debtors. i know that can be challenging indeed but you got to try with all your heart even if you fail least your trying with your heart to do so.

And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

It's interesting to note however, that the first sacrifice was made by God when he offered up the lives of his animals both to cover us and later to feed us.

The life, death and resurrection of Christ was not an appeasement of an angry God. The Bible tells how the notion of killing something to appease God got started- the story of Cain and Abel. This custom was prevalent in many cultures around the world, not just in the Middle East. "Go and learn what this means- I desire mercy, not sacrifice."

 

[BeyondET]

Is God immutable?

Malachi 3:6

Psalm 102:27

 

[d taylor]

-​

Jesus said:
“This, then, is how you should pray:
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one."

He tells us simply to forgive.. no price has to be paid... we just let go.

But, for salvation, this view that in order to forgive, someone's blood must be spilt...
Why can't God simply let go and forgive... simply let go of the 'debt' as Jesus instructed.

In Genesis 2,3 God chose blood as the payment for sin.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

If he just let go, we would still be sinners. Something must occur with respect to our human nature, namely, we must die to sin. We couldn't do this initially on our own, so Christ did it for us. His blood was shed for all humanity, that's why even the wicked will be raised.

Jesus said:
“This, then, is how you should pray:
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one."

He tells us simply to forgive.. no price has to be paid... we just let go.

But, for salvation, this view that in order to forgive, someone's blood must be spilt...
Why can't God simply let go and forgive... simply let go of the 'debt' as Jesus instructed.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Malachi 3:6

Psalm 102:27

Right. So even if penal substitution is true (which, I think all atonement theories are), we ought not envision it as effecting a change in God, rather it is a change in respect to God (eg. his wrath or justice as they are expressed in nature or the conscience)

 

[hedrick]

If he just let go, we would still be sinners. Something must occur with respect to our human nature, namely, we must die to sin. We couldn't do this initially on our own, so Christ did it for us. His blood was shed for all humanity, that's why even the wicked will be raised.

He could combine forgiveness with something to change us. Like dying with Christ and rising to new life for some and more painful processes of change to the extent that hasn’t worked.

 

[hedrick]

Right. So even if penal substitution is true (which, I think all atonement theories are), we ought not envision it as effecting a change in God, rather it is a change in respect to God (eg. his wrath or justice as they are expressed in nature or the conscience)

No. Penal substitution is one of many theories.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Forgiveness is the change effected over time

He could combine forgiveness with something to change us. Like dying with Christ and rising to new life for some and more painful processes of change for others.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

No. Penal substitution is one of many theories.

Yes. And I believe that all are true more or less.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Jesus said:
“This, then, is how you should pray:
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one."

He tells us simply to forgive.. no price has to be paid... we just let go.

But, for salvation, this view that in order to forgive, someone's blood must be spilt...
Why can't God simply let go and forgive... simply let go of the 'debt' as Jesus instructed.

Yes, and that was Buddha's biggest complaint. Suffering.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Yes, and that was Buddha's biggest complaint. Suffering.

It's a shame he didn't meet Christ. Hopefully now he's changed his perspective.

 

[BeyondET]

Yes, and that was Buddha's biggest complaint. Suffering.

never heard that before what do you mean by suffering was the buddha's biggest complaint?