Foreplay before Marriage!!

[Cerridwen]

Cerridwen
I was teasing Bellman. We've been going back and forth on the prostitution thread so I wasn't being seriously really. I shoulda put on of these in As far as sex, yeah it feels good but I've realized I gotta wait for what I didn't wait for before. Just because it feels good isn't a good enough reason to do it---I'd love to smoke a cigarette right now but I know better, or I'm trying to quit.

Ah, okay , I understand that you were teasing. That's the bad thing about cyber conversations-you can't read tone of voice or body language.

I agree that just because something feels good isn't a good reason to do it, but very few youngsters realize that, & I think a lot of people who claim that "my kid just isn't like that" forget about the nature of sexuality sometimes. Not to say that makes it excusable, but that still is the reality too often overlooked.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[Crispie]

Read the Song of Soloman (did I spell that right?). Tells exactly what a relationship should be before marriage. Foreplay before marriage is indeed a sin. In fact, Soloman fled from his girlfriend because he was beginning to become tempted to do immoral sexual acts with her.

 

[Crispie]

Hey~

A hedonist? And what rock have you been living under? I am 26 years old and I have never known a teenage boy(or young man) who didn't want to have sex. Ever. It's in their blood. That's what testosterone does to people. It makes them, well...you know(for the sake of getting moderated). From birth little boys(and little girls) explore their genitals. Why? Because it feels good. From puberty, little boys (a little moreso than little girls) have an almost obsessive quality about them when it comes to sex. It's new, it's fun, & it feels really good. We are animals, human animals, but animals nontheless. Acknowledging the normal fact of life that most young men want to have sex is not being hedonistic. It's being realistic.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

You're wrong, I dont want to have sex untill I'm married. Why? Because it would be sinning against my God and my body. Yes I admit that sexual pleasure is a temptation and would indeed feel good, but that doesnt mean I want to have it right now, dont make assumptions.

 

[The Bellman]

A hedonist? And what rock have you been living under? I am 26 years old and I have never known a teenage boy(or young man) who didn't want to have sex. Ever. It's in their blood. That's what testosterone does to people. It makes them, well...you know(for the sake of getting moderated). From birth little boys(and little girls) explore their genitals. Why? Because it feels good. From puberty, little boys (a little moreso than little girls) have an almost obsessive quality about them when it comes to sex. It's new, it's fun, & it feels really good. We are animals, human animals, but animals nontheless. Acknowledging the normal fact of life that most young men want to have sex is not being hedonistic. It's being realistic.

Sadly, one of the "duties" of christianity is to discourage people from a natural, healthy enjoyment of sex, and to attempt to deny their own sexualities. This, I feel, is the root of many of society's sexual problems today - pornography, prostitution, etc. Always reminds me of the old joke..."I was raised in a Christian house, where I learned that sex is something dirty and disgusting, and you should save it for the one you love."

 

[The Bellman]

I think you lean towards more of a hedonist than an athiest.

I am an atheist...and a realist. I take the human race for what it is, not for what some would like to pretend it is. It is natural for adolescent boys to want to have and experiment with sex. I believe to attempt to tell them that doing so is wrong or sinful is an immoral act, and one that leads to great harm to the individual and society.

 

[blackpurseninja]

I am an atheist...and a realist. I take the human race for what it is, not for what some would like to pretend it is. It is natural for adolescent boys to want to have and experiment with sex. I believe to attempt to tell them that doing so is wrong or sinful is an immoral act, and one that leads to great harm to the individual and society.

Hum, the Christian literature I have come across have all taught that sex was beautiful and created by God for you and your special mate. I think you are applying a narrow-minded view of Christian beliefs on sexuality based on a few bad experiences. Even non-Christian sexual education in school teaches that the best way to avoid stds and Aids in particular is to remain abstinent until you are married. Also, sexual relations create strong bonds in relationships, and that is not always a good thing.

I do not believe as a Christian I am pretending that men and women do not have sexual desires, but like all desires they can be managed. Adolescent boys have urges to experiment with sex, drugs, violence, and various other things. I do not think that society is damaged by encouraging young people to try and control these desires, but by the overload of extreme sexuality and violence portrayed in all forms of media. In fact, I believe society was doing just fine before the sexual revolution of the 60s.

I believe there is a difference between shaming people of their sexuality and teaching that it is a beautiful thing created for a greater purpose. Sure, there will be some unhealthy extreme views available for consumption, but that’s the way our society is – it’s not perfect, and there will always be various views all across the spectrum. That doesn’t change the fact that the Lord created sex for us and our happiness, but I believe responsibility should be used. Unfortuantely, that seems to be the way with all things that are fun: bad food, drinks, shopping, etc. ha ha

 

[The Bellman]

Hum, the Christian literature I have come across have all taught that sex was beautiful and created by God for you and your special mate. I think you are applying a narrow-minded view of Christian beliefs on sexuality based on a few bad experiences. Even non-Christian sexual education in school teaches that the best way to avoid stds and Aids in particular is to remain abstinent until you are married. Also, sexual relations create strong bonds in relationships, and that is not always a good thing.

Paul said that it is better not to have sex, but that if you really couldn't handle not having it, to get married (great basis for marriage). For centuries since, Christianity has taught that sex is dirty, not to be spoken of, and something to be avoided, and engaged in only for reproductive purposes. Recently (in the last few decades), in keeping with society's increased tolerance of open discussion of sex and the church's lack of control over society in general, Christianity has adopted the stance that, after all, sex is a good thing...within marriage. The legacy, however, continues...I've seen many people on these boards saying that celibacy is a "good thing" and "honourable". Just how denying the single most important instinct we have is a good thing, I've never understood.

I do not believe as a Christian I am pretending that men and women do not have sexual desires, but like all desires they can be managed. Adolescent boys have urges to experiment with sex, drugs, violence, and various other things. I do not think that society is damaged by encouraging young people to try and control these desires, but by the overload of extreme sexuality and violence portrayed in all forms of media. In fact, I believe society was doing just fine before the sexual revolution of the 60s.

Christianity doesn't preach "management" of sexual desire outside marriage - it teaches negation of it. Again, most people on these boards who are Christians believe that any sexual activity outside marriage is wrong. Some extend this even to masturbation (again, masturbation has, over recent decades, become more tolerant to Christianity in general, again in response to increased societal acceptance).

I believe there is a difference between shaming people of their sexuality and teaching that it is a beautiful thing created for a greater purpose. Sure, there will be some unhealthy extreme views available for consumption, but that’s the way our society is – it’s not perfect, and there will always be various views all across the spectrum. That doesn’t change the fact that the Lord created sex for us and our happiness, but I believe responsibility should be used. Unfortuantely, that seems to be the way with all things that are fun: bad food, drinks, shopping, etc. ha ha[/color]

That sex was created by a deity for some noble purpose is your opinion - one that I disagree with, but that's fine. However, you should note that it is not a verifiable fact.

One can imagine two extremes of viewpoints about sex: one viewpoint would be that all sex is evil, and should be avoided where possible. The other viewpoint would be that sex is great, and should be engaged in wherever possible. Most people's (and Christianity's) view is somewhere in between. The most popular Christian viewpoint currently seems to be that sex is great and should be engaged in whenever you feel like it within marriage. However, this has shifted toward this more tolerant view over the last few decades. How it will shift in the future remains to be seen. I predict it will move toward a more lenient view, probably settling somewhere around "sex is great between people who love each other (ie., not for a one-nighter)." This would seem to be more in keeping with the predominant view in western society in general.

In any case, regardless of where the Christian or societal attitude toward sex goes in the future, we are still reaping what Christianity has sown for the last couple of thousand years. For most of that time, it held that sex was something dirty, not to be discussed. The upshot of this has been a great many people who feel guilt about their normal sexual desires. Because of their guilt, they attempt to repress these desires...often leading to them emerging in aberrant ways.

I believe that Christianity and its attitude toward sex over the last few hundred years is, in large part, responsible for many of the sexual problems in society today, such as pornography, the prevalence of rape, the predominance of prostitution, etc. I am not saying that without Christianity, we would not have these problems; I am saying that without Christianity, these problems would not be as bad as they are, and would be more easily managed/dealt with.

 

[rainbowprism]

I believe that Christianity and its attitude toward sex over the last few hundred years is, in large part, responsible for many of the sexual problems in society today, such as pornography, the prevalence of rape, the predominance of prostitution, etc. I am not saying that without Christianity, we would not have these problems; I am saying that without Christianity, these problems would not be as bad as they are, and would be more easily managed/dealt with.

Gee, I thought the 'sexual revolution' and the rise of STD's and AIDS was mainly the cause of society's problems with sexuality issues today.

 

[euphoric23]

Gee, I thought the 'sexual revolution' and the rise of STD's and AIDS was mainly the cause of society's problems with sexuality issues today.

What caused the sexual revolution? It was an uprising of liberated peoples who were tired of the constrictive ideals that Christians had about sex that permeated our nation. Europe has pretty much always been fairly liberal when it comes to sex. So far I haven't seen your god wipe Europe off of the face of the earth for tolerating homosexuality, open relationships, cohabitation, and teaching about safer sex. I refer to Europe to make a comparison for comparison sake since the sexual revolution was really focused on America and the American sexual awakening.

 

[MQTA]

Good point. The 'revolution' was the backlash of the pendulum swinging the other way, from one extreme to another. The last 20-30 years are of trying to find middle ground, but everyone has their own pendulum in motion also. We still have a LONG way to go though.

 

[blackpurseninja]

Paul said that it is better not to have sex, but that if you really couldn't handle not having it, to get married (great basis for marriage). For centuries since, Christianity has taught that sex is dirty, not to be spoken of, and something to be avoided, and engaged in only for reproductive purposes. Recently (in the last few decades), in keeping with society's increased tolerance of open discussion of sex and the church's lack of control over society in general, Christianity has adopted the stance that, after all, sex is a good thing...within marriage. The legacy, however, continues...I've seen many people on these boards saying that celibacy is a "good thing" and "honourable". Just how denying the single most important instinct we have is a good thing, I've never understood. .

Like I said, you are making a huge overgeneralization about Christian principles based upon some bad experiences. I have never, ever, ever, run across any literature personally or teachings in any of the various types of churches I went to that believed and taught that sex was only met for reproductive purposes. If that were the case why would we have been created in such a way that we receive obvious pleasure from the act? Also, that is not exactly what Paul said, and if you believe that I feel you are mistaken on the meaning of the scripture. The main reason that churches remain silent about sex is because many do not know the best way to deal with addressing it to an entire congregation of various ages. Our pastor has no problem discussing it, but many do. It is a difficult topic that obviously people feel so differently about. Many spiritual institutions need to do a better job at sexual education.

Why would celibacy not be honorable? Why would quitting alcohol, or making a pledge not to do drugs not be honorable? If anyone wants to quit something they feel is not for them at that time, I believe it is honorable. I'm not sure I would agree that sexual inclinations are the single most important instinct that we have, because it is obvious that we can live without it if needed.

Christianity doesn't preach "management" of sexual desire outside marriage - it teaches negation of it. Again, most people on these boards who are Christians believe that any sexual activity outside marriage is wrong. Some extend this even to masturbation (again, masturbation has, over recent decades, become more tolerant to Christianity in general, again in response to increased societal acceptance).

Like I said, seeing as humanity is full of people that are so different, there will be views all through either sides of the spectrum. And yes, if the religious beliefs are based on the Bible, then the Bible clearly spells out sex before marriage is not what is intended; however, ‘marriage’ meant different things in history in the past. Often sex was the completion of your union, not a planned white ceremony.

What you’re missing is that most of those that have decided to remain abstinent decided FOR THEMSELVES. Life is about choices, and the majority of Christians find FREEDOM through their choices, while you view them as a prison. It may be hard, but when someone chooses to restrict their sexual desires until a specified time, they are not some tortured soul in the bedroom restricted by fear and guilt. Not having sex means never having to worry you are pregnant, never worrying about contracting a std, child support, hurt feelings, etc. and many think the sacrifice is worth that freedom. Just because you don’t think it is viable, doesn’t mean that these people are harming themselves by deciding to do so.

That sex was created by a deity for some noble purpose is your opinion - one that I disagree with, but that's fine. However, you should note that it is not a verifiable fact.

ha ha, last time I checked this is a Christian forum, so although I know these forums are open to all, you can’t expect me to add a disclaimer to basic belief principles of Christianity.

I predict it will move toward a more lenient view, probably settling somewhere around "sex is great between people who love each other (ie., not for a one-nighter)." This would seem to be more in keeping with the predominant view in western society in general.

Well history has shown that religion adapts to society, so you are probably right on that prediction. The religious texts will remain the same.

In any case, regardless of where the Christian or societal attitude toward sex goes in the future, we are still reaping what Christianity has sown for the last couple of thousand years. For most of that time, it held that sex was something dirty, not to be discussed. The upshot of this has been a great many people who feel guilt about their normal sexual desires. Because of their guilt, they attempt to repress these desires...often leading to them emerging in aberrant ways.

I can see some evidence of this, yes. Unfortunately for religion, it is a man made institution, and like any institution headed by man – there will be flaws. People will make mistakes, make assumptions, become legalistic, abuse power, and all the other wonderful things we are all capable of. I believe the religious literature takes a more rounded, healthy approach at this point. Society and cultures go through moral trends of their own, and these are not strictly dictated by the dominant religion of the region.

I believe that Christianity and its attitude toward sex over the last few hundred years is, in large part, responsible for many of the sexual problems in society today, such as pornography, the prevalence of rape, the predominance of prostitution, etc. I am not saying that without Christianity, we would not have these problems; I am saying that without Christianity, these problems would not be as bad as they are, and would be more easily managed/dealt with.

I definitely do not agree with this. If you look back in history, rape, prostitution, and pornography did not just appear within the last few hundred years. Rape and prostitution have been a prevalent part of this world’s culture for a very, very, very long time. Good points, I enjoyed your post.