Forcing your beliefs on others

faster_jackrabbit · Oct 15, 2006

SecretBlessings said:
To me, "forcing your beliefs on others" means preaching your beliefs & values onto others when someone chooses not to want to listen to what you have to say.

That is one facet, but "forcing others to live according to your beliefs when they don't share them" is what most of the discussion has been about. Certainly the last couple of pages.

Preaching can be ignored. Legislation cannot.

spinto · Oct 16, 2006

KarateCowboy said:
A lot people complain that Christians "force their beliefs" on others. I think about what that means and I cannot come up with a clear definition. I do not see how you can force someone to believe what you believe outside of force of logic. If you show them something and they are forced to believe it then all you have done is highlighted reality for them. Maybe someone could clarify exactly what secret mind powers other Christians possess that they are using to force non-Christians to believe things?

Because of the strong Christian influence in our nation, I am denied many rights and equality. This is because a majority of conservative Christians feel they have a right to govern morality for me and everyone else.

I have always seen that many Christians are not only concerned with their morals and traditions, but everyone elses too.

quatona · Oct 16, 2006

JesusWalks78 said:
You are trying to stop me from living in my ideal world that is free of sin and as much temptation to sin and enabling sin as possible...you are forcing that upon me.

Let´s think of a person who wants to practice her religion freely in non-public spaces.
Further let´s assume there is a person whose idea is to live in a world free of persons who practice their religion.
Do you see any siginificant differences in these two desires, or would you say they are on the same level?
I personally would value the right of the first person to exert her religion higher than that of the second person to live in a world free of religious exercise. Although I am not exactly a great fan of religion, I would stand up and actively advocate the first person´s right. Whilst "just because it bothers me to know that someone out there is doing it" has never been accepted as the basis for legislation.
Applying the same standards, I would value the wish of a person to act upon their sexuality higher than the wish of someone who wants to live in a world free of this sexuality.

Heck, how I wish the world would be free of dishes cooked with garlic.

GregoryTurner · Oct 16, 2006

So this is heading in the direction of... since Christians force their religion on us, we will go to their website and attack them?

quatona · Oct 16, 2006

GregoryTurner said:
So this is heading in the direction of... since Christians force their religion on us, we will go to their website and attack them?

Is this in response to my post?
In this case I seem to have utterly failed to communicate my point. If you want me to clarify my position, please tell me which part of my post gave you the impression that this is my idea.

On a more general note, discussing positions is not - by any stretch - attacking persons. Attacking persons is clearly against the rules of this forum. I am in support of this rule, not so much for ethical reasons, but simply because personal attacks are not arguments.
The fact that these are forums dedicated to the discussion between christian and non-christians gave me the impression that I am invited here to engage in exactly this. If this is not what the forum owners had in mind when creating these forums, I would like them to clarify their intentions.

GregoryTurner · Oct 16, 2006

No that was not about your post, just a question in general. Maybe I need to go read some FAQ's about this site because I see sites being shut down for these reasons.

GregoryTurner · Oct 16, 2006

Everyone seems to be attacking and angering everyone else.

quatona · Oct 16, 2006

GregoryTurner said:
No that was not about your post, just a question in general.

So - if not my post - what was it that suggested you the idea that "this is heading in the direction of... since Christians force their religion on us, we will go to their website and attack them?"?

quatona · Oct 16, 2006

GregoryTurner said:
Everyone seems to be attacking and angering everyone else.

This description doesn´t match my experiences here.
It wouldn´t even match them had you not worded it in the broadest way possible ("everyone...everyone").

GregoryTurner · Oct 16, 2006

I was referring to the whole homosexual debates/arguements/discussions... point is that how can anyone gay, straight, non-believer, etc expect to come to a christian website and not expect to have the Bible preached to them? (I'm not talking only about this thread but all of the threads in this moral forum.)

quatona · Oct 16, 2006

GregoryTurner said:
I was referring to the whole homosexual debates/arguements/discussions... point is that how can anyone gay, straight, non-believer, etc expect to come to a christian website and not expect to have the Bible preached to them? (I'm not talking only about this thread but all of the threads in this moral forum.)

The same way a Christian can come to a board for discussion with non-Christians and not expect that the bible is refused as a valid argument.
I guess people expect there to be some common ground for a discussion, despite all the differences.
Since I do have met Christians here who were willing and capable of discussing without engaging in bible preaching, I don´t see how expecting such is as unrealistic as you make it sound.

On another not, I don´t see how having unrealistic expectations would equal "everyone attacking and angering everyone else".

GregoryTurner · Oct 16, 2006

Point taken...

GregoryTurner · Oct 16, 2006

THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!!!

KarateCowboy · Oct 16, 2006

TheBellman said:
Because by banning topless bars and the like, you are doing precisely what the OP is about - forcing your religious beliefs on us.

You know modesty does not rely on religion to exist. I had a moral objection to topless bars and strip houses before I ever became a Christian(I was a Deist and a Naturalist at the time). Degredation of women, even if it is self-degredation, is still wrong.

quatona · Oct 16, 2006

I allow everyone the right to degrade themselves as they feel fit. Heck, for me, they can even consider themselves filthy rags, totally depraved, sinful by nature and whatnot.

KarateCowboy · Oct 16, 2006

GregoryTurner said:
I was referring to the whole homosexual debates/arguements/discussions... point is that how can anyone gay, straight, non-believer, etc expect to come to a christian website and not expect to have the Bible preached to them? (I'm not talking only about this thread but all of the threads in this moral forum.)

Time and time again this is what happens:

1) I am a Christian
2) Christianforums is a Christian forum (amazing!) with non-beleviers welcome to participate(see? we are tolerant).
3) I come to this website
4) Non-believers come to this website
5) Non-believers post threads like "Hey guyz homosex is teh pwnage LOL m i rite?"
6) I say "No its not teh pwnage u n00b"
7) Said non-believer says that I am "Forcing my beliefs on them"

Time and time again it happens. Here's the bottom line:
Don't go to a Christian website and post a bunch of latent flame material about how Christians are horrible and bigots/forcing their beliefs on others/believe in a fairy in the sky/should drink whole milk/etc. without expecting to either A) Offend someone B) Have someone argue back

I have no objection to a simple debate about something, so long as its kept respectful. But when you go to a Christian board and say someone is a bigot, or a hatemonger, or an oppressor simply for following their beliefs, that is unacceptable. I see threads like "National Coming Out Day -- the more they come out, the more you love 'em!". Now, if I went to a NAACP message board and posted "Jim Crow --my best friend", or let us say I went to a Jewish message board and posted a thread "101 Awesome Pork Recipes", do you think there would be any way I could convince them that I am not either A) A troll B) Stupid, much less pull off the stunt of condemning THEM?

GregoryTurner · Oct 16, 2006

I know. It seems like they are all putting a stumbling block in front of me. That is ok. Jesus will pick me right back up and dust me off.

quatona · Oct 16, 2006

KarateCowboy said:
Time and time again this is what happens:

1) I am a Christian
2) Christianforums is a Christian forum (amazing!) with non-beleviers welcome to participate(consider that 'tolerance').
3) I come to this website
4) Non-believers come to this website
5) Non-believers post threads like "Hey guyz homosex is teh pwnage LOL m i rite?"
6) I say "No its not teh pwnage u n00b"
7) Said non-believer cries that I am "Forcing my beliefs on them"

Time and time again it happens. Here's the bottom line:
Don't go to a Christian website and post a bunch of latent flame material about how Christians are horrible and bigots/forcing their beliefs on others/believe in a fairy in the sky/should drink whole milk/etc. without expecting to either A) Offend someone B) Have someone argue back

Just in case that which has been explained multiple times escaped you nonetheless:
When people talk about "forcing beliefs on others" they are not talking about the situation on CF, but about the overall situation in our societies.

Lynden1000 · Oct 16, 2006

KarateCowboy said:
Time
5) Non-believers post threads like "Hey guyz homosex is teh pwnage LOL m i rite?"
6) I say "No its not teh pwnage u n00b"

Am I showing my age in that I can't read these two lines? What the hay is a pwnage? and a n00b?

Forgive me, I'm totally square.

GregoryTurner · Oct 16, 2006

quatona said:
Just in case that which has been explained multiple times escaped you nonetheless:
When people talk about "forcing beliefs on others" they are not talking about the situation on CF, but about the overall situation in our societies.

Someone started this thread on this forum. So to label all as forcing something, you are going to get responses. If the situation on cf was not intended then why start this thread at all?

Forcing your beliefs on others

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