Forcing your beliefs on others

KarateCowboy · Oct 14, 2006

A lot people complain that Christians "force their beliefs" on others. I think about what that means and I cannot come up with a clear definition. I do not see how you can force someone to believe what you believe outside of force of logic. If you show them something and they are forced to believe it then all you have done is highlighted reality for them. Maybe someone could clarify exactly what secret mind powers other Christians possess that they are using to force non-Christians to believe things?

JesusWalks78 · Oct 14, 2006

KarateCowboy said:
A lot people complain that Christians "force their beliefs" on others. I think about what that means and I cannot come up with a clear definition. I do not see how you can force someone to believe what you believe outside of force of logic. If you show them something and they are forced to believe it then all you have done is highlighted reality for them. Maybe someone could clarify exactly what secret mind powers other Christians possess that they are using to force non-Christians to believe things?

I dont think it is possible to FORCE your beliefs on others....how do you control what is in a mans heart. Even at gun point you annot force your belief on someone else.

KarateCowboy · Oct 14, 2006

JesusWalks78 said:
I dont think it is possible to FORCE your beliefs on others....how do you control what is in a mans heart. Even at gun point you annot force your belief on someone else.

I agree, but apparently some people think otherwise.

JesusWalks78 · Oct 14, 2006

KarateCowboy said:
I agree, but apparently some people think otherwise.

Yeah I never got that.

quatona · Oct 14, 2006

KarateCowboy said:
A lot people complain that Christians "force their beliefs" on others. I think about what that means and I cannot come up with a clear definition. I do not see how you can force someone to believe what you believe outside of force of logic. If you show them something and they are forced to believe it then all you have done is highlighted reality for them. Maybe someone could clarify exactly what secret mind powers other Christians possess that they are using to force non-Christians to believe things?

I guess the problem is just sloppy wording. I agree: It´s impossible to force your belief on someone. When saying "forcing their belief on others" I think they actually mean that you are making (or trying to make) your religious convictions societal rules and therefore force restrictions on them that are founded in and make only sense within your religious dogma.

JesusWalks78 · Oct 14, 2006

quatona said:
I guess the problem is just sloppy wording. I agree: It´s impossible to force your belief on someone. When saying "forcing their belief on others" I think they actually mean that you are making (or trying to make) your religious convictions societal rules and therefore force restrictions on them that are founded in and make only sense within your religious dogma.

Isnt Majority rule the way of democracy?

Bananafish · Oct 14, 2006

KarateCowboy said:
A lot people complain that Christians "force their beliefs" on others. I think about what that means and I cannot come up with a clear definition. I do not see how you can force someone to believe what you believe outside of force of logic. If you show them something and they are forced to believe it then all you have done is highlighted reality for them. Maybe someone could clarify exactly what secret mind powers other Christians possess that they are using to force non-Christians to believe things?

You're missing the point. Forcing your beliefs on others generally means preaching at them when they don't want you to. Also, purposefully parading your religion around in the hope that others will "see the truth" or see how "great" you are because WOW YOU LOVE GOD THE BEST AND YOU WANT EVERYONE TO SEE THAT YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON! (Isn't there something in the Bible about this? That the humble believer serves God better than the boisterous one?) Some Christians also force their beliefs on other people by picketing funerals or bombing abortion clinics.

quatona · Oct 14, 2006

JesusWalks78 said:
Isnt Majority rule the way of democracy?

That would be too simplicistic. It is one of the core ideas, but there are other core ideas as well (like protection of minorities, just to name one), that do not allow majority rule to be the only criterium.
If majority rule would be the only postulation of democracy, it would be a system that indeed condones that which is being criticized as "forcing your beliefs on others".

JesusWalks78 · Oct 14, 2006

quatona said:
That would be too simplicistic. It is one of the core ideas, but there are other core ideas as well (like protection of minorities, just to name one), that do not allow majority rule to be the only criterium.
If majority rule would be the only postulation of democracy, it would be a system that indeed condones that which is being criticized as "forcing your beliefs on others".

In its very basic form isnt what I said correct, I mean the bare bones of it is that your President is chosen by who gets the most votes right?

JesusWalks78 · Oct 14, 2006

Bananafish said:
You're missing the point. Forcing your beliefs on others generally means preaching at them when they don't want you to. Also, purposefully parading your religion around in the hope that others will "see the truth" or see how "great" you are because WOW YOU LOVE GOD THE BEST AND YOU WANT EVERYONE TO SEE THAT YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON! (Isn't there something in the Bible about this? That the humble believer serves God better than the boisterous one?) Some Christians also force their beliefs on other people by picketing funerals or bombing abortion clinics.

It is our Christian duty....you dont have to listen.

Not the bombing and stuff, but we are to spread the Good News.

Parading around our religion, how is that different from a Gay Pride Parade? We Parade the message of God, the Parade wanting to be accepted. Its about getting a message across.

We love god and want others to see it....you can state for a fact that every chrstian does this?

bammertheblue · Oct 14, 2006

JesusWalks78 said:
In its very basic form isnt what I said correct, I mean the bare bones of it is that your President is chosen by who gets the most votes right?

Well, sort of (although not always), but that isn't really the same thing. If 51% of the people voted that slavery should be legal, that wouldn't make it right because it would infringe upon the rights of the minority. Make sense?

quatona · Oct 14, 2006

JesusWalks78 said:
In its very basic form isnt what I said correct, I mean the bare bones of it is that your President is chosen by who gets the most votes right?

Listen, JW. The OP asked a question about what this statement is supposed to communicate, and I gave him my interpretation.
I am not going to defend a statement just because I think I understand what it is meant to say (understanding an idea and sharing it are two different things, after all), and neither am I going to discuss political systems with you. At least not in this thread, where it is off-topic.
If you think that democracy comes down to majority rule, then be it. Maybe it´s the Fiji version of democracy. Where I live democracy works differently.

JesusWalks78 · Oct 14, 2006

bammertheblue said:
Well, sort of (although not always), but that isn't really the same thing. If 51% of the people voted that slavery should be legal, that wouldn't make it right because it would infringe upon the rights of the minority. Make sense?

No I understand that, but isnt truth also subjective, isnt that also the case for morality.

I am going to take of my Christian Hat right now and attempt to discuss this with you in terms of relativity.

If thats allright with you.

JesusWalks78 · Oct 14, 2006

quatona said:
Listen, JW. The OP asked a question about what this statement is supposed to communicate, and I gave him my interpretation.
I am not going to defend a statement just because I think I understand what it is meant to say (understanding an idea and sharing it are two different things, after all), and neither am I going to discuss political systems with you. At least not in this thread, where it is off-topic.
If you think that democracy comes down to majority rule, then be it. Maybe it´s the Fiji version of democracy. Where I live democracy works differently.

Its the bare bones of democracy anywhere. Remeber I said Bare bones, its not all it is about I agree.

If you do not wish to discuss this any firther than so be it.

Garnet2727 · Oct 14, 2006

I agree that one cannot force one's beliefs on another. Like quatona said, it's sloppy wording.

However, I do get irritated when evangelists refuse to take a polite "No thank you, I'm not interested," for an answer. I had way too many experiences with pushy evangelists in Alabama including a street preacher who stalked me and a yelling evangelist who blocked access to my car in a parking lot. I simply wish that evangelists would leave me alone when I ask them too.

JesusWalks78 · Oct 14, 2006

Garnet2727 said:
I agree that one cannot force one's beliefs on another. Like quatona said, it's sloppy wording.

However, I do get irritated when evangelists refuse to take a polite "No thank you, I'm not interested," for an answer. I had way too many experiences with pushy evangelists in Alabama including a street preacher who stalked me and a yelling evangelist who blocked access to my car in a parking lot. I simply wish that evangelists would leave me alone when I ask them too.

That I dont agree with either, If you say no thank you, then they should move along to the people that are interested in being saved.

bammertheblue · Oct 14, 2006

JesusWalks78 said:
No I understand that, but isnt truth also subjective, isnt that also the case for morality.

I am going to take of my Christian Hat right now and attempt to discuss this with you in terms of relativity.

If thats allright with you.

I don't really know what you mean by that, but okay.
Slavery is wrong because it harms someone else. Even if 51% of the people thought it was okay, it would still be wrong. So no, it's not an absolute democracy.

JesusWalks78 · Oct 14, 2006

bammertheblue said:
I don't really know what you mean by that, but okay.
Slavery is wrong because it harms someone else. Even if 51% of the people thought it was okay, it would still be wrong. So no, it's not an absolute democracy.

Why is it wrong to hurt others?

bammertheblue · Oct 14, 2006

JesusWalks78 said:
Why is it wrong to hurt others?

Because it hurts them, and harming someone else isn't okay. It deprives them of their rights. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

JesusWalks78 · Oct 14, 2006

bammertheblue said:
Because it hurts them, and harming someone else isn't okay. It deprives them of their rights. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

Yes, but why isnt it okay?

I am trying to demonstrate that all morals are subjective, there is no such thing as an absolute moral. That right and wrong does not exist.

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