Forcing the Chruch to accept homosexuality..

[Phinehas2]

Amen, the truth needs posting, anyone can see what the Bible says, whether they believe it or not is up to them.

 

[drich0150]

I know. I do the same.

The baggering and baggering from that side though, does take its toll. But of course that's the idea.

This is true, but know it is a double edge sword, it does cut both ways. If you have noticed alot of the heavy hitters on their side have left the conversation. Now what is left are the new guys and those who seem to want to will their beliefs on others. These efforts in of themselves are proof as to the true nature of how this topic far exceeds the bounds of simple homosexuality. It is about undermining the Gospel of Christ. In that sin does not need forgiveness as the bible teaches. Sin is to find acceptance. through unbiblical tolerance.

 

[Phinehas2]

Amen drich0150.

 

[onemorequestion]

This is true, but know it is a double edge sword, it does cut both ways. If you have noticed alot of the heavy hitters on their side have left the conversation. Now what is left are the new guys and those who seem to want to will their beliefs on others. These efforts in of themselves are proof as to the true nature of how this topic far exceeds the bounds of simple homosexuality. It is about undermining the Gospel of Christ. In that sin does not need forgiveness as the bible teaches. Sin is to find acceptance. through unbiblical tolerance.

Let us pray that these wayard brothers and sisters find their way through the field of sarcastic secualrism and then come back to a fellowship of believers.

 

[drich0150]

Amen drich0150.

Can you now see their is a way to represent the truth in the bible and God without arguing the way they want you to?

If they want to cut out large portions of scripture then allow them to do so, just make the distinction between Christianity and their particular efforts. If they wish to change or introduce a new, doctrine make them provide reference material to spell out their new doctrine letter by letter. If they can not, again make the division between their efforts and the whole of Christianity. If they want to call into question a particular translation or to make a grey area for themselves, then side step and find another way to reinforce the issue. If you are indeed speaking from the expressed will of God their is another way of explaining. You just have to be willing to let go of your personal pride in order to do so sometimes.

 

[drich0150]

Let us pray that these wayard brothers and sisters find their way through the field of sarcastic secualrism and then come back to a fellowship of believers.

already Done, but I do not suspect any change to be forth coming till they themselves make these prayers of their own accord.

 

[KCKID]

This is true, but know it is a double edge sword, it does cut both ways. If you have noticed alot of the heavy hitters on their side have left the conversation.

I would suggest that 'the hard-hitters on their side' that you speak of have left the conversation because they see the futility of conversing with some who seem to spend their day floating around on a cloud of piousness.

Now what is left are the new guys and those who seem to want to will their beliefs on others.

Say what ...?? Who is wanting to will their beliefs on others?

These efforts in of themselves are proof as to the true nature of how this topic far exceeds the bounds of simple homosexuality. It is about undermining the Gospel of Christ.

Or, perhaps upholding the written testimony of Jesus HIMSELF which involves loving one's neighbor! I have seen no 'homosexual sympathizer' here speak against anything that Jesus was recorded to have preached!

In that sin does not need forgiveness as the bible teaches.

Those of 'homosexual persuasion' do not regard this in and of itself as being 'a sin'. YOU do.

Sin is to find acceptance. through unbiblical tolerance.

Unless you are righteous I'm assuming that your own sins are, as with the sins of everyone else, likened to 'filthy rags' ...? Do people accept you? Are your sins tolerated?

Your lack of humility - and those of the other 'hard-hitters' who share your pious views - is most telling.

 

[KCKID]

Let us pray that these wayard brothers and sisters find their way through the field of sarcastic secualrism and then come back to a fellowship of believers.

Oh, my goodness. What I would SO like to say but can't.

 

[LightHorseman]

Yes



Changing or trying to force a doctrine of unbiblical tolerance upon the Church is not "just being gay."

If you do not believe this is happening at all then simply read some of these posts.

Yeah, about that... I hear a lot of claims from the anti-homosexual side of this discussion about how homosexuals are forcing this and demanding that, I haven't yet seen many actual examples of homosexuals doing any actual demanding or attempting to force.

Pretty much all I've ever seen here is homosexuals and their supporters saying "we want civil recognition, no one is trying to force churches to do anything against their will". Obviously, homosexual members of some congregations and their supporters are attempting to have the issue addressed by their own churches, which is only what one would expect, since, you know, thats what happens when congregants of a church disagree with some of the tennets or attitudes of that church. I'm yet to see anyone, anywhere, demand that there be a wholesale acceptance of homosexuality by all churches.

Could you maybe cite me a specific example?

 

[drich0150]

I would suggest that 'the hard-hitters on their side' that you speak of have left the conversation because they see the futility of conversing with some who seem to spend their day floating around on a cloud of piousness.

From the beginning I have said that this sin is like any other, which emphatically states that "we" are no better than any of you. We are not right and you are wrong. We are wrong as well. It's just because we can admit to this wrong and repent of it, that we are forgiven. This is the only difference between my position and yours.

Say what ...?? Who is wanting to will their beliefs on others?

Do you have book chapter and verse that supports the position that you have been representing as "Christian?" If not then it is not God's will that you wish to impose but your own. (on those in the church)

Or, perhaps upholding the written testimony of Jesus HIMSELF which involves loving one's neighbor! I have seen no 'homosexual sympathizer' here speak against anything that Jesus was recorded to have preached!

Love does not include a doctrine of permissibility. Especially when Christ himself call all sinners to Repentance. Not to a doctrine of acceptance. Love is a many splendored thing, but it does not turn a blind eye to sin. This is the antithesis of the Love as provided by the actions of Christ. If this were not the case He would not have had to Die for our sins.

Those of 'homosexual persuasion' do not regard this in and of itself as being 'a sin'. YOU do.

...And my example is taken from book chapter and verse.. Where or how exactly do you define sin if not through the bible? remember "Because I said so" will not hold up in a discussion about God's expressed will.

Unless you are righteous I'm assuming that your own sins are, as with the sins of everyone else, likened to 'filthy rags' ...? Do people accept you? Are your sins tolerated?

To whom do you seek approval? Man or God? My sins like yours only needs to find repentance, in order to find forgiveness. Remember this is not a discussion of secular acceptability. If it were I would say my efforts on this topic are looked at far more despairingly than yours at this point. This is a discussion about homosexuality, God's expressed will and the Gospel of forgiveness, and how that relates to the homosexual doctrine of permissibility of sin. Nothing more.

Your lack of humility - and those of the other 'hard-hitters' who share your pious views - is most telling.

Humility? To what end? Are you upset that I will not allow you, or those like you to misrepresent God? Do you see this as pride? Is holding you, and your beliefs to the bible what you consider as pride?
Perhaps you Are upset because I have used this thread not only to denounce homosexuality in a way that you all can't seem to combat, but have also taken the opportunity to show others how to effectively combat a doctrine that threatens to undermine Christianity as a whole. Maybe you see this as pride because it is at the expense of your broken pride that i have the opportunity to make these observations and recommendations.

In the end I believe that you have simply misidentified my efforts. Don't get me wrong i am glad to be able to contribute in the championing of God's expressed will over the false doctrine you have been pushing. But when it is all said and done, it is God's expressed will that is being championed, and not my own. Because of that fact any Pride I might be experiencing points to the greater glory of God. I am but a foolish man with little to nothing to offer of my own. All I have been doing is holding those who would claim a new gospel to the standards recorded in scripture, and teaching others to do the same.

If this is pride by your definition, then may I be the first to say I am proud to be identified this way.

 

[drich0150]

Yeah, about that... I hear a lot of claims from the anti-homosexual side of this discussion about how homosexuals are forcing this and demanding that, I haven't yet seen many actual examples of homosexuals doing any actual demanding or attempting to force.

Pretty much all I've ever seen here is homosexuals and their supporters saying "we want civil recognition, no one is trying to force churches to do anything against their will". Obviously, homosexual members of some congregations and their supporters are attempting to have the issue addressed by their own churches, which is only what one would expect, since, you know, thats what happens when congregants of a church disagree with some of the tennets or attitudes of that church. I'm yet to see anyone, anywhere, demand that there be a wholesale acceptance of homosexuality by all churches.

Could you maybe cite me a specific example?

In turn can you cite a specific example of where i have said that "Their is indeed a demand for the wholesale acceptance of Homosexuality by all churches." I know you want ot need this argument to be about society as a whole turning on the Church as a whole to force the homosexual doctrine on the church, because you have tried to turn the argument in that direction twice now.

Understand this is an argument about God's expressed will, Homosexuality, Sin, and how that relates to the Homosexual doctrine of permissibility of sin. Nothing More. It is in this doctrine of the permissibility of sin do you find a change that undermines the whole of Christianity. This is what is being address here.

 

[Phinehas2]

The pro-gay factions like to claim innocence and ignoance of what is going on. Pro-gay influnce is everywhere, in goverment pressure groups, for example Stonewall, its in the workplace and in government. An example is the Equalities Commission, the Stonewall memeber objected to a Christian member joining. So much for equality.

 

[mandyangel]

another example is how gay people all the time 'out' other people who THEY think are gay. just look at prez hilton and his site.

on 2nd thought, don't! LOL

 

[LightHorseman]

In turn can you cite a specific example of where i have said that "Their is indeed a demand for the wholesale acceptance of Homosexuality by all churches." I know you want ot need this argument to be about society as a whole turning on the Church as a whole to force the homosexual doctrine on the church, because you have tried to turn the argument in that direction twice now.

Understand this is an argument about God's expressed will, Homosexuality, Sin, and how that relates to the Homosexual doctrine of permissibility of sin. Nothing More. It is in this doctrine of the permissibility of sin do you find a change that undermines the whole of Christianity. This is what is being address here.

So wait, I'm confused... are you claiming that homosexuals are trying to force acceptance onto the church (by which, I assume, you mean all of Christianity) or not?

 

[LightHorseman]

another example is how gay people all the time 'out' other people who THEY think are gay. just look at prez hilton and his site.

on 2nd thought, don't! LOL

Indeed, because Perez Hilton is a good representative of what the majority of homosexuals are like in real life.

 

[LightHorseman]

The pro-gay factions like to claim innocence and ignoance of what is going on. Pro-gay influnce is everywhere, in goverment pressure groups, for example Stonewall, its in the workplace and in government. An example is the Equalities Commission, the Stonewall memeber objected to a Christian member joining. So much for equality.

Even if the "cited" example is factual, and not wildly misrepresented, if at all based on any real event, I absotively posilutely guarantee you that for any such example I can find you a hundred, no, a THOUSAND where heterosexuals have acted in worse fashion towards homosexuals. Now, no, two wrongs don't make a right, of course, but I can understand that if you and people like you spent your entire lives being discriminated against, it must be AWFULLY tempting to turn the tables when the opportunity comes along.

FYI, I'm a Christian, and have belonged to several groups with homosexuals as members, and I've never been discriminated against by any of them.

 

[AngelusSax]

Indeed, because Perez Hilton is a good representative of what the majority of homosexuals are like in real life.

And you know, Paris Hilton is a shining example of all heterosexuality!

 

[seekthelord]

Why is there a need for liberally minded people to have God or The Whole of Christianity to accept Homosexuality?

Why not just be Gay, and shrug off what the bible or church says?

Why do we have to believe what you believe?

.

hi drich,

It is done to keep us in line as civilised human beings.
For they fear if christian man had an easy ride politically they would kill all homosexual offenders as happened during the Old Testament days and Yahweh's nEW tESTAMENT DAYS.
And so as not to offend any homosexual, christian man might put to death every adulter and adultress also.
Does that answer your question as to why homosexuals are infiltrating a christian man's domain?

seekthelord

 

[AngelusSax]

It is done to keep us in line as civilised human beings.
For they fear if christian man had an easy ride politically they would kill all homosexual offenders as happened during the Old Testament days and Yahweh's nEW tESTAMENT DAYS.
And so as not to offend any homosexual, christian man might put to death every adulter and adultress also.
Does that answer your question as to why homosexuals are infiltrating a christian man's domain?

I don't think that's the reason... Many try to just live their lives, but are berated constantly by conservatives (the majority of whom mean well), and after so long of this happening, I think a lot of them just start fighting back. It's probably far less important that someone agree with them either theologically or politically than it is they don't get berated for being who they are. Unfortunately, many people will stop berating only when they agree. Hence, the arguments.

That's my thoughts, anyway. It's pretty much conjecture, but it's how I think I would feel in the same situation.

 

[drich0150]

So wait, I'm confused... are you claiming that homosexuals are trying to force acceptance onto the church (by which, I assume, you mean all of Christianity) or not?

Perhaps if you attempted to stay on topic confusion would not come to you so quickly.