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Forcing the Chruch to accept homosexuality..

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drich0150

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Pretty much. A lot of fundamentalist/lieralist interpretation (and that's what it is, it's all interpretation of one variety or another) comes from, of course, going by what's on the page and nothing else. The first problem with that is what's on the page may be a mistranslation, or someone else's interpretation of a word's meaning posing as faithful translation. The second problem is, if context is not taken into account, then you're not reading Scripture, but just mere words on a page (without context, Scripture is just words).

If I may, let's look at just one verse. You shall not lie with man as with woman, that is detestable (or abomination, or unclean... depends on the translation). I'm sure we're all familiar with that one.

Now, on the surface, it looks like it may as well just say "no gay sex." The first part of the sentence has a sexual connotation to it (like Adam "knowing" Eve). So why the second part about "as with woman"?

If it's just about any gay sex at all, this part is unnecessary. If, however, it's about one man degrading another to the level of being a subservient, property-type woman (as women were back then), then it's not redundant. And it's not about committed, life-long relationships of either heterosexual or homosexual couples. It's about degradation, humiliating a fellow man (ever wonder why the law didn't also say women aren't allowed to lie with woman as with man?).

There are layers of meaning within Scripture, many of which are only realized with context (both context of the rest of Scripture, and historical context, it's not an either/or type thing, and one is not mutually exclusive to the other).

It was common in many cultures to engage in sexual orgies to please various gods. These orgies weren't just a bunch of men, each with a woman, going at it in public. Everyone was going at everyone, male and female, mother and daughter, father son, father daughter, cousins, strangers... everyone. That's why God prohibited all the things He did, in the specificity He did. Ever wonder why a whole people had to be commanded to not do their families? Because the pagans did it, and not only was it debauchery, it was also idolatry.

I have found when people can not site scripture to endorse what they believe, they mix personal philosophy in with what others have represented of scripture so as not to appear foolish when they are asked for book chapter and verse.

If this statement does not apply to you, then please by all means show us where God sanctifies the relationship or life style of unrepentant sin that you are claiming.

If you can not then understand that no matter how you wish to criticize others for interpreting scripture, Know that their interpretation is indeed of scripture. You and your interpretations are of Nothing. You stand before us proclaiming the Word, and Will of God using little more than an "I said so."

Can you not see that your emperor has no cloths?
 
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vl32

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Really?

Ezekiel 15:49-50 says "‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen."

Yes, the detestable and abomination are interchangeable depending on which version you read.

Don't wish to debate that though. It's easy to look up.
 
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drich0150

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And if you draw a line around your religion to keep those you consider unworthy out, we have Jesus's own words for it that it's Him you're shutting out along with them.

What do you suppose is happening when people learn to justify sin, or if they change God's definition of sin to fit their own desires? Did Jesus teach a doctrine of acceptance of sin? Did He "live and let live" with the money changers? Did He Not confront with those steeped in pride, of their sin? Woe to you preacher of your own law if you say he did not.

Your version of tolerance is not a biblical one. Tolerance of sin has never been taught by Jesus or any of His followers. We are expected to be tolerant of the repentant sinner, but this is not tolerance for the proud in their sins of choice..

We have Shown Homosexuality to indeed be a sin. A sin like any other. This sin needs to be repented of in order to find forgiveness. Otherwise know that the separation or "shutting out" you speak of is happening on it's own, in your version of tolerance. Although you welcome and accept unrepentant sin, God does not. Again if you do not "feel" this way then show me where The Father openly accepts the unrepentant sinner. Show me where Christ accepts the unrepentant sinner. You in your unbiblical doctrine are shutting out people from God. This doctrine of acceptance of sin is not the Gospel of the Bible. The Gospel is that there is FORGIVENESS of SIN. Not acceptance.

If you believe that your version of "tolerance" is indeed the biblical version then please show me book chapter and verse where we as members of the body are expected to incorporate unrepentant sinners into the fold. I can think of several verses that speak to the contrary.. (A little yeast works through our the whole batch of dough.)

If you can not then know you join the Ranks of the "I said so's." You speak for God with out any scriptural support, but yet have found enough pride in an I said so, to speak your mind even if it goes against what scripture says.. Truthfully, and respectfully, How can a person representing God as a member of the Body of Christ do this, and not change when he is confronted with the biblical truth?
 
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AngelusSax

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I have found when people can not site scripture to endorse what they believe, they mix personal philosophy in with what others have represented of scripture so as not to appear foolish when they are asked for book chapter and verse.

I have found that when people will only look for book chapter and verse without studying any further, they just don't want to have to use God's gift of a brain to think and arrive at an actual meaning, because it's too scary.

If that does not apply to you, please try to examine context so as to actually be reading Scripture and not just words on a page (they're important words, but context is king).

If you can not then understand that no matter how you wish to criticize others for interpreting scripture, Know that their interpretation is indeed of scripture. You and your interpretations are of Nothing. You stand before us proclaiming the Word, and Will of God using little more than an "I said so."

Interpretations are merely interpretations. Context is what decides if there's any merit to them. And that doesn't just mean the words on the page you pick and choose to obey over others (eating shellfish is the same level of abomination, yet that is never condemned as sending someone straight to hell... probably because a lot of people like to eat shrimp on occasion.)
 
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vl32

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Paul's target audience is not homosexuals. The people he's referring to were Christians who returned to Paganism to practice pagan idolism, and as punishment, God exchanged natural relations (heterosexual) for unnatural (homosexual). Same-sex behavior, especially in a ritual manner, was not natural for Paul's audience. Same-sex relations are natural for homosexuals, and there were not enough known homosexuals ( since the concept wasn't invented until the 19th Century) for Paul to justify an entire passage to a tiny tiny minority.

OllieFranz would be the best to clarify, but I also believe Paul's reference was a greek joke based on Plato, that his audience would understand, but we wouldn't.

I'd have to disagree that the "creature" in Romans had more to do with the Emperor Nero who did have both male and female wives as well as male lovers, and was more a jab at Nero.

However, it still points out that male/male marriage or sex acts were still not practiced by the Messianic Jews nor any of the early Christians.

True biblical marriage is with the virgin blood of a woman and one man which makes the blood marriage covenant. That is God's ideal and Jesus' ideal.

However, as modernism has plowed along, society with it's sky-rocketing divorce rate has gotten away from this ideal and fallen short. Yet, concessions are given for divorce from unbelievers for an example.

I believe the Christian church and Christianity should get back to it's root, and that we all must repent of sin.

However, I don't believe legal marriage has anything to do with God's ideal for marriage. Legal marriage of today is pretty much boiling down to property rights and sharing of those rights.
 
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drich0150

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Exactly. It frustrates me to no end that conservatives continue to use the Leviticus verses with no analysis to condemn all gays.

The word used as "to lie" with a man, is the word used every time it makes a sexual reference, to that of forced or deceitful sexual relations. Had the author intended to condemn consentual relations, it would have used a word like "yaba" which was what referred to Adam and Eve's sexual relations.

And second, if I were writing that verse and wanted to condemn all gays - I would have said "A man shall not "know" another man".

The fact that it adds the clause "in beds of a women", is direct evidence that it's referring to a specific type of male lying - that is - forcing another man to take on the sexual position of a woman. This was viewed as "taboo" or "ritually impure" (correct interpretations of abomination) in the patriarchal society of Leviticus. It was a common occurrence in Caananite pagan rituals, which is where the warning came from. The surrounding subject matter of Leviticus 18 and 20 prove this.

But conservatives continue to ignore the evidence so they can continue to condemn people they don't like. Which to me indicates, Christianity is no longer about truth, it's about being right by whatever means necessary.

Why can't you seem to answer the scripture i have put fourth identifying Homosexuality as a sin?

Why do you keep harping on your tired argument? (Over and Over and Over again) From what I have read there is only one who continually goes back to the well you have polluted. And yet you champion this defeated argument at the first sign of semi relevance. Can you not think ANY legitimate evidence to silence my particular identification of the homosexual sin? Or is it you have not been told how to think about it yet?

Let me refresh your memory as to the exact argument:
Homosexuality is a sin because Sex outside of Marriage is a sin. Now because there is Absolutely No Context in The Whole of the Bible to Sanctify a Homosexual relationship in marriage, that puts all Homosexual sex well with in the Realm of SIN..

But also know that this sin is like any other. There is forgiveness for this sin if one can repent of it. Forgiveness only comes through Repentance, not through Acceptance or pride. The Bible teaches Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins. Teaching and or believing that their is acceptance in sin negates the Gospel of the Bible...
 
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drich0150

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I have found that when people will only look for book chapter and verse without studying any further, they just don't want to have to use God's gift of a brain to think and arrive at an actual meaning, because it's too scary.

So, no Book chapter and verse? Just more conjecture.. Do you fail to see this is not a philosophical argument? You are pretending to represent God and His will with your posts.. If this is your true intent, then going of the reservation (away from the written words found in the Bible) Are in essence undermining your very efforts. How are we to know God's will if not through Book Chapter and Verse? How is God's will found in the things you have deemed "Too Scary?"


If that does not apply to you, please try to examine context so as to actually be reading Scripture and not just words on a page (they're important words, but context is king).
AND AGIAN, THIS IS WHY I AM TRYING TO GET YOU TO ACTUALLY QUOTE SOMETHING FROM THE BIBLE!! You Have Not Quoted One Signal Thing That Makes Your Arguments Relevant. So Lets try and put Words and Context Together, So that you May Speak from something other that your personal beliefs.

Interpretations are merely interpretations. Context is what decides if there's any merit to them.
You have NEITHER SHOWN WORDS OR CONTEXT. How about practicing what you preach.. Lets see some context!!! The Burden of Proof is on you. You are the one teaching a new gospel so lets see where it comes from.

And that doesn't just mean the words on the page you pick and choose to obey over others (eating shellfish is the same level of abomination, yet that is never condemned as sending someone straight to hell... probably because a lot of people like to eat shrimp on occasion

More empty conjecture and foolish speculation without anything to back it up... Are you seeing the pattern that I see yet? You may have confused yourself with this foolishness, but can you not see I am holding you and your beliefs to a higher standard? Either at least strive to meet them or allow someone else to do so in your stead.
 
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vl32

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The Bible teaches Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins. Teaching and or believing that their is acceptance in sin negates the Gospel of the Bible...

That's what I was thinking. Jesus is our redeemer, and he forgives us of our sin and gives us a new clean state to work with, with the help of the Holy Spirit.

So, does society chose what is sin or not? Can a brother or sister help me with my question of does society chose what is sinful or not now?
 
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drich0150

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So, does society chose what is sin or not? Can a brother or sister help me with my question of does society chose what is sinful or not now?

Sin, is anything not in the expressed will of God.

So long as society stays in God's expressed will then yes. That said, society does not have the authority to determine what is or is not sinful apart from God's expressed will.

Society often mistakes it's own values or morals as righteousness, but apart from God's holy standards these values, and morals are little more then Self Inspired Righteousness.

Self Righteousness or more specifically one's blindness to their own brand of Self righteousness is the reason so many claim to be representing God even though their is no Scripture (Or God's expressed will) to back their own positions. They simply "feel" what they are doing and saying is right. Unfortunately their Pride will not allow them to consider any thing that may contradict their beliefs, or "feelings." Even God's own words.

So to summarize, No we can not determine our own definitions of sin apart from God's Expressed Will. Even though our pride through our own self righteous behavior, makes us "feel" as if we can.
 
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Polycarp1

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Personally I prefer the Gospel of Jesus Christ, in which there is forgiveness for sins. But you are welcome to put your faith in the Bible, just as some Catholics put theirs in St. Mary or St. Jude.

God's mercy and lovingkindness is a wonderful thing. You should acquaint yourself with it sometime.
 
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AngelusSax

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Sin, is anything not in the expressed will of God.

The use of computers is not in the expressed will of God. There is no prohibition per se, but there is nothing expressly written for it in God's Will (tm).

More empty conjecture and foolish speculation without anything to back it up... Are you seeing the pattern that I see yet? You may have confused yourself with this foolishness, but can you not see I am holding you and your beliefs to a higher standard? Either at least strive to meet them or allow someone else to do so in your stead.

It is only empty conjecture and foolish speculation to those who do not want to have to think critically about an issue that is far more complex than they want it to be. I used to be one of those. God changed me. And frankly, I'm still dealing with that. (I would write more perhaps, but it's bed time, and since I'm fortunate enough to have chosen willfully to be straight... cuz that's how it happens and all... my wife and I are turning in early. See you all later.)
 
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drich0150

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Personally I prefer the Gospel of Jesus Christ, in which there is forgiveness for sins..

But in your Gospel you teach the permissibility of sin not forgiveness. The first step of forgiveness is repentance. The first step in repentance is admitting your sin. If one is taught what he is doing is not sin, or that if he is permitted to sin, then why would he ever repent, and in turn receive forgiveness?

So you see the doctrine of Jesus that you claim to champion, and the doctrine of unbiblical tolerance that you actually teach can not coincide with one another.
 
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drich0150

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The use of computers is not in the expressed will of God. There is no prohibition per se, but there is nothing expressly written for it in God's Will (tm).
This is a weak weak argument that seems to be brought up when people choose to be obstinate, rather than merely accepting the truth.. Computers are just a format in which things like data storage, communication, social networking, the exchange of Ideas and business transactions all take place. All of which are indeed covered in the Expressed Will of God.

..Sorry try again...


It is only empty conjecture and foolish speculation to those who do not want to have to think critically about an issue that is far more complex than they want it to be.
God's will is what is being discussed, now unless you are claiming to either be God or have a direct line to God, then the bible is the only means of deciphering what God's will is. AGAIN, We are not having a philosophical conversation as to the Validity of homosexuality in a modern society. We are have a discussion as to how Homosexuality, and sin relate to the expressed will of God. And seeing how the bible is the only way to know the expressed will of God, it has to be central to any conversation concerning His will. So to say you must broaden your mind past the bible, to know God's will is foolishness. Whether you can admit it or not, you have just emptied your argument of any possible Merritt, for anyone seeking God's will.

I used to be one of those. God changed me.
Are you sure it was God? If your "New" revelation does not coincide with scripture (The Expressed Will Of God) Then I can most likely say that it was not God who changed you.

And frankly, I'm still dealing with that. (I would write more perhaps, but it's bed time, and since I'm fortunate enough to have chosen willfully to be straight... cuz that's how it happens and all... my wife and I are turning in early. See you all later.)
There is no reason to reaffirm your heterosexuality here. this is not a gay bashing. What I am doing is correcting theology and personal misrepresentations of God, The Bible and or His will.

Outside of representing God to the best of my ability, I do not care what gender you are, or prefer. My responsibility here is to make sure that their is an accurate representation of God's will as provided by scripture.
 
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Jase

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But in your Gospel you teach the permissibility of sin not forgiveness. The first step of forgiveness is repentance. The first step in repentance is admitting your sin. If one is taught what he is doing is not sin, or that if he is permitted to sin, then why would he ever repent, and in turn receive forgiveness?

So you see the doctrine of Jesus that you claim to champion, and the doctrine of unbiblical tolerance that you actually teach can not coincide with one another.
You, however, continue to believe that your personal interpretation of the Bible is how we should all define sin. Sorry, I don't accept your views, and therefore can't agree with you on what constitutes sin and what doesn't.
 
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drich0150

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You, however, continue to believe that your personal interpretation of the Bible is how we should all define sin. Sorry, I don't accept your views, and therefore can't agree with you on what constitutes sin and what doesn't.

Then, As I have Challenged you Time and Time again, Show Me Book Chapter, And Verse To Any Thing You Have Represented As Being Apart Of The Will Of God... Show Me Book Chapter And Verse As To What Constitutes a Sin.. Something, anything..
IF You CAN NOT Then Know That Your Religious Views Are Your Own, And Do Not Represent God, The Bible, Christianity, Or The Expressed Will Of God In any way shape or form. You are merely saying This is what i think regardless of what God, the Bible or anyone else's says!!

If this is the case then know you do not speak from a position of Christianity or God's righteousness. If you did then you could back up what you have claimed, or even what "you believe to be a sin." With scripture. As it is these are simply your thoughts from your own personal brand of righteousness.

Please let that foolishness Go. Their is so much on the line here for you personally. Especially since you have taken the position of a teacher of God's word. God wants and loves you, the only stipulation is that you have to do it His way. You have to be forgiven of sin, you can not expect Him to simply accept you sin because you want Him to. If He Could Christ would not have had to die on that cross. As it is, all who want to force a doctrine of acceptance, spit in the eye of all of what was done to provide Forgiveness. You me, nor anyone else can expect God to accept sin when so much was done in order that He may forgive it.
 
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nChrist

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How many threads with this same subject matter are started every week? The real answers are always the same if the Holy Bible is the Authority.

My little church doesn't have any new doctrine, nor will it be forced to accept any doctrine. Homosexual acts are most definitely a sin, and there is no compromise with sin. The Holy Bible is our Authority - and it will remain our authority. We will not call evil good - nor good evil. It's all very simple - we will not be conformed to this world. This is not a self-righteous or hypocritical position - just a Bible Position. If one sins, they need to repent and seek forgiveness from God.

If one wallows in sin as a lifestyle, Jesus Christ is the only answer. There won't be any compromise from God, and there shouldn't be any compromise with so-called churches. A compromise from a so-called church means nothing to God except that church is NOT faithfully fulfilling their duties to God. There are many so-called churches like that today.

====================

Genesis 18:19-23 KJV For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. 20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. 22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. 23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

Genesis 18:19-23 AMP For I have known (chosen, acknowledged) him [as My own], so that he may teach and command his children and the sons of his house after him to keep the way of the Lord and to do what is just and righteous, so that the Lord may bring Abraham what He has promised him. 20 And the Lord said, Because the shriek [of the sins] of Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is exceedingly grievous, 21 I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether [as vilely and wickedly] as is the cry of it which has come to Me; and if not, I will know. 22 Now the [two] men turned from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the Lord. 23 And Abraham came close and said, Will You destroy the righteous (those upright and in right standing with God) together with the wicked?

====================

Genesis 19:4-7 KJV But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, 7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

Genesis 19:4-7 AMP But before they lay down, the men of the city of Sodom, both young and old, all the men from every quarter, surrounded the house. 5 And they called to Lot and said, Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know (be intimate with) them. 6 And Lot went out of the door to the men and shut the door after him 7 And said, I beg of you, my brothers, do not behave so wickedly.

====================

Leviticus 18:22-25 KJV Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. 24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: 25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

Leviticus 18:22-25 AMP You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination. [I Cor. 6:9, 10.] 23 Neither shall you lie with any beast and defile yourself with it; neither shall any woman yield herself to a beast to lie with it; it is confusion, perversion, and degradedly carnal. 24 Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, for in all these things the nations are defiled which I am casting out before you. 25 And the land is defiled; therefore I visit the iniquity of it upon it, and the land itself vomits out her inhabitants.

====================

Leviticus 20:13 KJV If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 AMP If a man lies with a male as if he were a woman, both men have committed an offense (something perverse, unnatural, abhorrent, and detestable); they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

====================

Romans 1:22-28 KJV Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Romans 1:22-28 AMP Claiming to be wise, they became fools [professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves]. 23 And by them the glory and majesty and excellence of the immortal God were exchanged for and represented by images, resembling mortal man and birds and beasts and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their [own] hearts to sexual impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves [abandoning them to the degrading power of sin], 25 Because they exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed forever! Amen (so be it). [Jer. 2:11.] 26 For this reason God gave them over and abandoned them to vile affections and degrading passions. For their women exchanged their natural function for an unnatural and abnormal one, 27 And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another--men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was [their] fitting retribution. 28 And so, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God or approve of Him or consider Him worth the knowing, God gave them over to a base and condemned mind to do things not proper or decent but loathsome,

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1 Corinthians 6:9 KJV Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Corinthians 6:9 AMP Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,

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Ephesians 4:18-19 KJV Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

Ephesians 4:18-19 AMP Their moral understanding is darkened and their reasoning is beclouded. [They are] alienated (estranged, self-banished) from the life of God [with no share in it; this is] because of the ignorance (the want of knowledge and perception, the willful blindness) that is deep-seated in them, due to their hardness of heart [to the insensitiveness of their moral nature]. 19 In their spiritual apathy they have become callous and past feeling and reckless and have abandoned themselves [a prey] to unbridled sensuality, eager and greedy to indulge in every form of impurity [that their depraved desires may suggest and demand].

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Ephesians 5:11-12 KJV And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

Ephesians 5:11-12 AMP Take no part in and have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds and enterprises of darkness, but instead [let your lives be so in contrast as to] expose and reprove and convict them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of or mention the things that [such people] practice in secret.

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1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

1 Timothy 1:9-10 AMP Knowing and understanding this: that the Law is not enacted for the righteous (the upright and just, who are in right standing with God), but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinful, for the irreverent and profane, for those who strike and beat and [even] murder fathers and strike and beat and [even] murder mothers, for manslayers, 10 [For] impure and immoral persons, those who abuse themselves with men, kidnapers, liars, perjurers--and whatever else is opposed to wholesome teaching and sound doctrine

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Jude 1:6-10 KJV And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Jude 1:6-10 AMP And angels who did not keep (care for, guard, and hold to) their own first place of power but abandoned their proper dwelling place--these He has reserved in custody in eternal chains (bonds) under the thick gloom of utter darkness until the judgment and doom of the great day. 7 [The wicked are sentenced to suffer] just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the adjacent towns--which likewise gave themselves over to impurity and indulged in unnatural vice and sensual perversity--are laid out [in plain sight] as an exhibit of perpetual punishment [to warn] of everlasting fire. [ Gen. 19.] 8 Nevertheless in like manner, these dreamers also corrupt the body, scorn and reject authority and government, and revile and libel and scoff at [heavenly] glories (the glorious ones). 9 But when [even] the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, judicially argued (disputed) about the body of Moses, he dared not [presume to] bring an abusive condemnation against him, but [simply] said, The Lord rebuke you! [Zech. 3:2.] 10 But these men revile (scoff and sneer at) anything they do not happen to be acquainted with and do not understand; and whatever they do understand physically [that which they know by mere instinct], like irrational beasts--by these they corrupt themselves and are destroyed (perish).

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KCKID

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But in your Gospel you teach the permissibility of sin not forgiveness. The first step of forgiveness is repentance. The first step in repentance is admitting your sin. If one is taught what he is doing is not sin, or that if he is permitted to sin, then why would he ever repent, and in turn receive forgiveness?

So you see the doctrine of Jesus that you claim to champion, and the doctrine of unbiblical tolerance that you actually teach can not coincide with one another.

I have to confess, drich0150, that you lost me at the apes.*

Time and time again the so-called 'clobber' scriptures (Book, Chapter and Verse, both OT and NT) have been identified and explained in rather great detail by a number of people on this forum. These explanations differ greatly from what you and others believe them to mean. This does not mean that these explanations are wrong. So, what, precisely, do you want other than what has already been given?

* Will explain the meaning of that expression if asked.
 
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Phinehas2

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Polyacarp1,
I agree with drich0150
But in your Gospel you teach the permissibility of sin not forgiveness.
and
So you see the doctrine of Jesus that you claim to champion, and the doctrine of unbiblical tolerance that you actually teach can not coincide with one another.
Whatever gospel you are referring to is not the same. The gospel of Jesus Christ, whose testimony in the Bible, includes the sin of same sex relationships. See 357Magnum's excellent post #237.
 
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Phinehas2

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KCKID,
Let me be frank. The Bible passages quoted as in post #237, are quoted. They are quoted to show what the Bible says. If they dont mean what they say who could tell anything about what the Bible says!!!
Not accepting they mean what they say in context is disbelief. In context there is no question that these passages condemn same sex relations, there are dozens which countenance man/woman marriage only.
I dont see the point in continuing your argument when all the majority of Christians will do is rightly reject it as continued and determined disbelief.
 
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LightHorseman

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Why is there a need for liberally minded people to have God or The Whole of Christianity to accept Homosexuality?
There is?
Why not just be Gay, and shrug off what the bible or church says?
Thats what most homosexuals do, don't they?
 
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