For the sake of argument, let's say God exists

[Nathan Poe]

Or his God could just make us robots if that what he really wanted.

That comes later -- after the "End Times," when God finally declares all of creation a failed experiment and pulls the plug.

 

[Norbert L]

I see a lot of people claiming something as complex as the life here on earth must have a creator. Now my question is for those who claim the God of the Bible is the one. How do you make the leap from there having to be a creator, to the creator being the God of the Bible?

Knowing the amount of thought and time given by large minds and small to the question, "Does God exist?" I believe it is fair to say that it also is complex as life itself. Did life create the concept of a supreme god or is there a supreme God that gives everything life? Much like the chicken and the egg.

On a side note I think an argument can be made that evolutionists are saying is the egg came first while creationists are saying the chicken, but this is going off-topic. Now more to the point.

How do you make the leap from there having to be a creator, to the creator being the God of the Bible

In two words, Dying Declaration. Which in itself brings along another challenging thought. Wouldn't any sound reasoning unbelieving person like to cross examine Jesus Christ and the thirteen men He commissioned for specifically declaring what He did and what they all died for?

Here's a news article that is relevant to the above:

Court says dying witness statement OK at trial - Yahoo! News

Within the Bible there are numerous grandiose declarations such as, "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them." (Isa 42:8-9)

Also when it comes to the individuals that have and do fill the world, the Bible makes another claim, "The earth is the LORD's, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein." (Ps 24:1)


And it's not as if this God shows preferential treatment in judging any nation of peoples or individuals, even an enemy of His people Israel are included, "And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more then six score thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?" (Jonah 4:11)

It's not at all about the God of the Bible being greater than any other god as some kind of injustice being done to another system of belief. It's completely about the declarations that have been witnessed to and are being made show there are no others Gods but THIS ONE, the God of the Bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't remember "returning" to atheism. I was raised a Christian, then left it for atheism. I didn't "return" to anything. The only thing I could "return" to is Christianity, so I felt it funny to make a jab where I twisted your words to make it look like you're calling Christianity dog vomit.

It takes the wind out of my sails to explain a joke.

Perhaps this passage applies then?

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[Inan3]

I don't remember "returning" to atheism. I was raised a Christian, then left it for atheism. I didn't "return" to anything. The only thing I could "return" to is Christianity, so I felt it funny to make a jab where I twisted your words to make it look like you're calling Christianity dog vomit.

It takes the wind out of my sails to explain a joke.

See ... there are YOUR words again. YOU said you were RAISED a Christian... you didn't say you WERE a Christian. That's where your understanding is ALL wrong. Just living in a Christian home, going to a Christian church, trying to do all Christian things does not make you a Christian. Many people make THAT mistake. Being a Christian means being BORN AGAIN. BORN in the SPIRIT. It's an EXPERIENCE in the heart not some "works" you do. Being a Christian is KNOWING Christ not knowing ABOUT Christ.

I'll give you this, at least you admitted, you were twisting the words to make a joke/jab.

 

[Inan3]

Perhaps this passage applies then?

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

I don't think so AV cause I don't think he ever WAS a Christian in the true sense of the word. I don't think he had the KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST. He knew about Him but didn't KNOW Him.

 

[Hespera]

I don't think so AV cause I don't think he ever WAS a Christian in the true sense of the word. I don't think he had the KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST. He knew about Him but didn't KNOW Him.

Very few true scotsmen to be found either.

I always wonder how people think themselves so lucky or smart as to be members of the one true faith.

Every religion is the one true faith.

 

[Inan3]

That comes later -- after the "End Times," when God finally declares all of creation a failed experiment and pulls the plug.

Not happening!

 

[CaliforniaSun]

That won't happen in this dispensation:

Matthew 26:11a For ye have the poor always with you;

It is impossible.

Let me reiterate:

That question was directed at California Sun -- an atheist.

That's it? You guys spout the importance of having a "personal relationship" with Jesus, and this is what you lead with? Feed a homeless person?

I believe the greater morality is to feed someone in need because it's the right thing to do, and within my power to do so, not as a means to an end. You can keep your religion.

Again, how do you have a "personal relationship" with someone you can't talk, walk, touch, smell or see?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Not happening!

Bible says otherwise -- If we are in the "End Times," who but God is ending it?

 

[Nathan Poe]

In two words, Dying Declaration. Which in itself brings along another challenging thought. Wouldn't any sound reasoning unbelieving person like to cross examine Jesus Christ and the thirteen men He commissioned for specifically declaring what He did and what they all died for?

Here's a news article that is relevant to the above:

Court says dying witness statement OK at trial - Yahoo! News

If you're going to resort to courtroom tactics, then you should be aware that the entire Bible would be rejected in court as hearsay, since not a single author was actually a witness to the things they wrote about.

 

[Inan3]

Very few true scotsmen to be found either.

I always wonder how people think themselves so lucky or smart as to be members of the one true faith.

Every religion is the one true faith.

Oh the great and mighty Hespera has spoken!!! Sorry, you're wrong again. It is not being lucky or smart it is a CHOICE. You choose your path, and I choose mine. Rather than fighting against God, I believe Him. I believe that there is a God and Creator of all. You believe in the creature rather than the Creator. It's a CHOICE not luck at all.

 

[Inan3]

If you're going to resort to courtroom tactics, then you should be aware that the entire Bible would be rejected in court as hearsay, since not a single author was actually a witness to the things they wrote about.

Firstly, are saying that every author has to be WITNESS to the actual things they write about? Guess we better throw out a lot of science books.

Secondly, MOST of the authors in the Bible WERE eyewitnesses to what they wrote about.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

If you're going to resort to courtroom tactics, then you should be aware that the entire Bible would be rejected in court as hearsay, since not a single author was actually a witness to the things they wrote about.

QFT.

What's sad is that most Christians don't know this. Their pastors deliberately keep them in the dark. I would wager that most wouldn't be able to list the six undisputed Pauline epistles.

 

[Tomatoman]

Oh the great and mighty Hespera has spoken!!! Sorry, you're wrong again. It is not being lucky or smart it is a CHOICE. You choose your path, and I choose mine. Rather than fighting against God, I believe Him. I believe that there is a God and Creator of all. You believe in the creature rather than the Creator. It's a CHOICE not luck at all.

So you think the world's 1.5 billion muslims have all just been too silly to make the right choice?

If you can't see that your beliefs are an accident of where you were born then you are being more than a little blinkered.

 

[Tomatoman]

Firstly, are saying that every author has to be WITNESS to the actual things they write about? Guess we better throw out a lot of science books.

Secondly, MOST of the authors in the Bible WERE eyewitnesses to what they wrote about.

None of the gospel authors were.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Firstly, are saying that every author has to be WITNESS to the actual things they write about? Guess we better throw out a lot of science books.

Nice strawman -- but Norbert already lowered the bar with a courtroom analogy. And in court, you can only testify to things you've actually witnessed.

Secondly, MOST of the authors in the Bible WERE eyewitnesses to what they wrote about.

For example?

 

[Inan3]

Bible says otherwise -- If we are in the "End Times," who but God is ending it?

Bible does NOT say otherwise. We are in the end times of this "world system" and those who support it, and much later (after the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth) there will be a "new heaven and a new earth" but God will never "finally declare ALL of creation a failed experiment and pull the plug" as you have stated. God and His Kingdom are going to continue on. Those who are His are going to be with Him. That's what the Bible says!! You better brush up on all those "gaps" the nay sayers never filled in for you and believe me there is so much you don't know about the Bible and your Creator.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Firstly, are saying that every author has to be WITNESS to the actual things they write about? Guess we better throw out a lot of science books.

Secondly, MOST of the authors in the Bible WERE eyewitnesses to what they wrote about.

Name one eyewitness.

As for science books, throw out whatever you want. Science makes no spiritual or supernatural claims. Science eventually converges on the most likely conclusion. The problem with religion, OTOH, is it's divergent nature. That's a problem.

As for your choice of Christianity, I'd posit that it has more to do with where you were born, than your actual consideration of it's claims. That is to say, if you had been been born in Iran, you would be wearing a burka right now.

 

[Hespera]

Oh the great and mighty Hespera has spoken!!! Sorry, you're wrong again. It is not being lucky or smart it is a CHOICE. You choose your path, and I choose mine. Rather than fighting against God, I believe Him. I believe that there is a God and Creator of all. You believe in the creature rather than the Creator. It's a CHOICE not luck at all.

For a person who claims to want to be friends you sure is snarky.


What besides luck or smarts led you to make the "right" choice, when all them untrue scotsmen also think they made the right choice?

You believe in the creature rather than the Creator

.

do you believe you can make up things about other people and have them be true?

 

[Hespera]

None of the gospel authors were.

Here are some more 'eyewitnesses"

The Testimony of Eight Witnesses

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.
Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith