LDS For Not Following Joseph Smith?

[Randy777]

.

We don’t find any additions to the NT from Matthias.

 

[Jane_Doe]

No I think their motives were pure. What I believe is they failed to wait on a answer to their prayers.

So.. still a failure and going against the Lord's wishes (aka rebellion).

 

[Jane_Doe]

We don’t find any additions to the NT from Matthias.

Irrelevant. How much of the NT did Bartholomew write?

 

[Randy777]

So.. still a failure and going against the Lord's wishes (aka rebellion).

This is how I believe my lord judged their action. Their motives were pure and they could not have known that Paul was set aside at birth. Why do you try to twist the judgment?

 

[Randy777]

Irrelevant. How much of the NT did Bartholomew write?

Certainty nothing different then what was written.

 

[Jane_Doe]

This is how I believe my lord judged their action. Their motives were pure and they could not have known that Paul was set aside at birth. Why do you try to twist the judgment?

I am simply trying to understand your beliefs. Thus far what I'm getting is that you believe all the Apostles in Act 1 failed, didn't listen to the Lord, and did what *they* wanted to do.

To me, that sounds like complete apostasy. It doesn't matter that they did so with "the best intentions" -- failing to listen the the Lord and putting yourself first is a big deal.

If this is NOT your beliefs, please please tell me where I'm misunderstanding so I can improve. Right now I feel like I'm not getting things correctly.

 

[BigDaddy4]

failing to listen the the Lord and putting yourself first is a big deal.

Is a sin, not an apostasy. Jospeh Smith failed to listen to the Lord, so is Mormonism in apostasy because of it?

 

[Randy777]

I am simply trying to understand your beliefs. Thus far what I'm getting is that you believe all the Apostles in Act 1 failed, didn't listen to the Lord, and did what *they* wanted to do.

To me, that sounds like complete apostasy. It doesn't matter that they did so with "the best intentions" -- failing to listen the the Lord and putting yourself first is a big deal.

If this is NOT your beliefs, please please tell me where I'm misunderstanding so I can improve. Right now I feel like I'm not getting things correctly.

I don’t know how you arrived at that. I never made such a statement. The Apostles didn’t wait for a answer to their prayer in regard to replacing Judas. Their motives were pure. That not all the Apostles failed.
They were not commanded to not replace Judas. They jumped the gun with pure motives.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I don’t know how you arrived at that. I never made such a statement. The Apostles didn’t wait for a answer to their prayer in regard to replacing Judas. Their motives were pure. That not all the Apostles failed.

They failed to follow God by not waiting and listening to Him.

 

[Randy777]

They failed to follow God by not waiting and listening to Him.

Not the same as you imply. Their motives were pure unlike your JS who made up his testmony

 

[Jane_Doe]

Not the same as you imply

How not?
They didn't listen to God, but instead went and did what they wanted to do.

(I hope I don't come across as offensive here, I'm really trying hard to understand what you believe and be respectful while at it).

 

[Randy777]

How not?
They didn't listen to God, but instead went and did what they wanted to do.

(I hope I don't come across as offensive here, I'm really trying hard to understand what you believe and be respectful while at it).

I have addresses this already despite your repeated attempts to twist their actions. This is in their favor their motives were pure and they couldn’t have known Paul was set aside at birth. I think you already know I am Christian and don’t hold to apostolic succesion

 

[Jane_Doe]

I have addresses this already despite your repeated attempts to twist their actions. This is in their favor their motives were pure and they couldn’t have known Paul was set aside at birth. I think you already know I am Christian and don’t hold to apostolic succesion

Here, stating simple logic from what I'm understanding about your beliefs. Please tell me the first number I where I'm misunderstanding:
1) There was need to have a new Apostle
2) The 11 prayed about it.
3) God, being God, would have told them about His choice (that is was Paul). There was a wait involved.
4) The 11 didn't wait and listen. Hence they are responsible for the fact they didn't know of God's choice.
5) The 11 still had not heard the voice of the Lord.
6) The 11, meaning well, went off and did their own thing.

 

[Randy777]

Here, stating simple logic from what I'm understanding about your beliefs. Please tell me the first number I where I'm misunderstanding:
1) There was need to have a new Apostle
2) The 11 prayed about it.
3) God, being God, would have told them about His choice (that is was Paul). There was a wait involved.
4) The 11 didn't wait and listen. Hence they are responsible for the fact they didn't know of God's choice.
5) The 11 went off and did their own thing.

They didn’t wait for a answer to “their” prayer. They did listen and follow the lords commands. They did not receive a command to replace Judas. They reasoned such replace from the scriptures they quoted. God already had set aside Paul from birth. So the choice wasn’t from the two the Apostles,not Jesus, selected as canadates. Casting lots was common in those days. Their motives were pure and they couldn’t have known about Paul at that point in time. They chose two canadates based off merits. God chose Paul by grace before Paul had done good or bad.

 

[Jane_Doe]

They didn’t wait for a answer to “their” prayer. They did listen and follow the lords commands. They did not receive a command to replace Judas. They reasoned such replace from the scriptures they quoted. God already had set aside Paul from birth. So the choice wasn’t from the two the Apostles,not Jesus, selected as canadates. Casting lots was common in those days. Their motives were pure and they couldn’t have known about Paul at that point in time. They chose two canadates based off merits. God chose Paul by grace before Paul had done good or bad.

How can you say "they followed the Lord's commands", and at the same time claim what they were doing wasn't following the Lord's commands?

 

[Randy777]

How can you say "they followed the Lord's commands", and at the same time claim what they were doing wasn't following the Lord's commands?

Whatever the lord commanded them to do they did. As Apostles they made decisions on their own as well.

 

[Randy777]

Paul often made judgments in regard to the churches. He considered the law in such judgments.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Whatever the lord commanded them to do they did. As Apostles they made decisions on their own as well.

So because God didn't send a lightning bolt down explicitly saying "don't do this" it's ok for them to do whatever?
Scripture wasn't good enough guide?
Furthermore, scripture explicitly says they prayed to the Lord on the matter.

I apologize if I'm coming off offensive here- really really do apologize. This just... I'm trying to make sense of it, but it's not following

 

[Randy777]

So because God didn't send a lightning bolt down explicitly saying "don't do this" it's ok for them to do whatever?
Scripture wasn't good enough guide?

I apologize if I'm coming off offensive here- really really do apologize. This just... I'm trying to make sense of it, but it's not following

In this case God had already set aside Paul as His choice. So what the lord would have found in their favor was their motive was pure and they couldn’t have known about Paul.

You really need to know these Apostles left everything to follow Jesus and put their lives on the line daily. Jesus loved them and he made judgments based off His righteousness.

 

[Jane_Doe]

In this case God had already set aside Paul as His choice. So what the lord would have found in their favor was their motive was pure and they couldn’t have known about Paul.

Why-- because the Lord was keeping it a secret?