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For me, it's either theistic evolution or nothing.

pat34lee

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OK, so much for biochemistry. You can do the same thing with the fossil record ("no rabbits will be found in cabrian strata"), etc, again giving thousands of easily falsifiable predictions for all of the millions of places where excavations are happening. The same for Genetics. The same for physiology. The same for pathology. and so on. The point is that UCA makes literally hundreds of millions of eminently testable predictions, thousands of which are tested every year.

Um, no. There are millions of scientists in fields affected by UCA/evolution. In science, the best ticket to fame, fortune and TENURE is to find evidence against an established theory. In fact, the more well established or more famous the theory, the more valuable it is to find evidence against it. The rules are that you can't fabricate evidence, and your evidence has to be publically verifiable. Seems simply, but those make it hard.

That's why Einstein was so prominent - because he found exceptions to Newton's theories. What about Newton? he was so prominent because he found evidence against Aristotle's ideas. And so on, for practically any famous scientist (Curie, Faraday, Darwin, Millikan, you name it).

Exceptions and so-called "Cambrian rabbits" are found all the time. They are
either ignored, labeled as fakes or 'lost'. The woman who found soft tissue in
dinosaur fossils was almost drummed out because her find was so far outside
the realm of possibilities. They couldn't even be bothered to make a realistic
sounding theory as to how it occurred. Nothing will make soft tissue last for
millions of years. Not iron, and not fairy dust.

Actually, the fastest way to lose your funding is to rock the boat. Even if a
scientist were independently wealthy and self-funded (Lara Croft), the deals
between museums, countries and private institutions would keep them from
being able to work in most places. Blackballing and ostracizing work.

Einstein's theory was far enough out to not require God in the explanation.
Anything that points to special creation is another matter entirely.
 
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pat34lee

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I think this might answer it..you said: a way to keep the Jews separate from the Gentiles.

That might suffice if only he hadn't called unclean meat "abomination".
That suggests something I wouldn't want near me, much less eat it.
 
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Papias

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You do know that the concept of slavery here is towards a person who was in debt and couldn't pay it off. It's not the slavery they taught you about in history class.

I didn't see this until now, but this is another unscriptural whitewashing of biblical slavery. The Bibles are clear again and again that slavery is fine - and that slavery is exactly the type practiced in the old South.

This whitewash claims that Biblical slavery is kind, loving servitude for fellow Hebrews, who enter it voluntarily, are not harmed, and are set free after six years. However, reading the Bibles show two (2) separate and non-equal sets of parallel laws based on race/culture for Hebrew vs. non-Hebrew slaves (somewhat like Jim Crow laws). People advocating this or that position will often simply focus on one set and ignore the other set, which is of course picking and choosing again. Hebrew slaves were indeed treated better, as stated above.

Unlike Hebrews, non-Hebrews could legally be involuntarily, permanently enslaved through war (Dt 20), or through the slave trade (Lev 25:44). Long-lived slaves could also be bequeathed to the master’s heirs like other property (Lev 25:46). Non-Hebrew slaves could be beaten, as long as they weren’t killed, and didn’t lose an eye or tooth. Ex 21:21 states: "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.” How severely must a man or woman be beaten to be unable to get up for many hours?

Slavery is the punishment meted out in Genesis 9, and that "curse of Ham" explicitly says that black people are to be enslaved. It is supported throughout the Bibles, an in addition to the verses above, the ten commandments approve of slavery twice (commandments 3/4 and 10), and Jesus himself talks about how some slaves are severely beaten, never saying anything is wrong with slavery. Paul too talks about slavery in many cases, never saying that slavery is wrong and should not be allowed. If they had any problem with it at all, they could have said "slavery is wrong - don't do it", in just 7 words or so. But of course, they didn't say that.

With the clear, repeated endorsement of slavery by both Protestant & Catholic Bibles, it’s no surprise that for centuries, slavery was supported by many Christians, including Augustine, Aquinas, Martin Luther, and of course, many Popes. Jefferson Davis, the President of the U. S. Confederacy, was just simply right when he said that: “Slavery was established by decree of Almighty God. It is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation.”

Luckily, we Christians can see that God calls us to move past a literal reading of scripture, and reject slavery on the simple basis of compassion.

In Christ-

Papias
 
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loveofourlord

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I've been saying it for a while, that if a creationist has convinced me the bible and evolution arn't compatible I drop Christianity, thats how strong I feel the evidence for evolution is, I also think it's stronger for the bible, but the point is, all the evidence I've ever seen points to evolution, at best we have with creationists is alot of lies, and misconceptions, it's hard to take them seriously when they arn't even arguing against evolution 90% of the time.
 
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loveofourlord

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Personally I reject evolution without regard to the bible.
Consider, for instance, the muscles for the fingers.
To give us good grip strength the muscles are very big.
They will not fit in the fingers, so, somehow they mutated themselves into the arms.
Then, there are strings attached to the fingertips and go back to the arm muscles.
I just cannot accept somehow we mutated in such a way (10x, once for each finger)
That a string mutated somehow for each finger, snaked its way up the finger, across the hand, through the wrist, and attached itself to a muscle in the arm.
It just seems too fantastic for me to believe.
And there are many more examples.

you do know that muscles and things evolved long before paws, and fingers? the same general musclles in your fingers were already in the paws of animals before our monkey and such ancestors, it's not like we have that many things unique to only humans or monkeys and such that arn't in our ancestory.
 
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-57

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Those of you with a young earth view of 6,000 - 10,000 years, how do you explain ice core chronology?

I've been saying it for a while, that if a creationist has convinced me the bible and evolution arn't compatible I drop Christianity, thats how strong I feel the evidence for evolution is, I also think it's stronger for the bible, but the point is, all the evidence I've ever seen points to evolution, at best we have with creationists is alot of lies, and misconceptions, it's hard to take them seriously when they arn't even arguing against evolution 90% of the time.

Doesn't the bible say through one man sin and death came about? One man?

This contradicts the evolutionary concept that populations evolved and created man...who fell by means the Theo-evos can't explain
 
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loveofourlord

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Doesn't the bible say through one man sin and death came about? One man?

This contradicts the evolutionary concept that populations evolved and created man...who fell by means the Theo-evos can't explain

well evolution happened, and god's real, so they are compatible some how, those are the facts, I'm not willing to ignore reality.
 
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RickG

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Doesn't the bible say through one man sin and death came about? One man?
The bible has nothing to do with this topic.

This contradicts the evolutionary concept that populations evolved and created man...who fell by means the Theo-evos can't explain
Evolution has nothing to do with this topic.
 
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mark kennedy

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Evolutionism is heretical as it contradicts the bible.
I couldn't disagree more but not for the reasons you might think. Evolution is living things changing over time, we all know this happens and should thank God for adaptive evolution. What is commonly called evolution is actually Darwinism, sometimes called the 'theory of evolution'. Evolution isn't just a phenomenon in nature, it's also a theory of natural history and to equivocate the two is a serious mistake. They want you to do this but we have to be smarter then that.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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-57

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I couldn't disagree more but not for the reasons you might think. Evolution is living things changing over time, we all know this happens and should thank God for adaptive evolution. What is commonly called evolution is actually Darwinism, sometimes called the 'theory of evolution'. Evolution isn't just a phenomenon in nature, it's also a theory of natural history and to equivocate the two is a serious mistake. They want you to do this but we have to be smarter then that.

Grace and peace,
Mark

I believe evolutionism...Man didn't fall in the garden theology...also contradicts Calvinism.
 
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mark kennedy

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I believe evolutionism...Man didn't fall in the garden theology...also contradicts Calvinism.
Of course it does, but a better word for it is Darwinism. We are reasonable people, we know that there is a natural phenomenon known as adaptive evolution. That's not the problem, the problem is the naturalistic assumptions of Darwinism. I would ask you to consider the distinction.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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Speedwell

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I've been saying it for a while, that if a creationist has convinced me the bible and evolution aren't compatible I drop Christianity...
Don't do it. That's their scheme, to "purify" the faith by driving from salvation in Christ all who will not submit to their interpretation of scripture. Don't fall for it; keep true to your faith in Christ whatever they say.
 
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-57

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Of course it does, but a better word for it is Darwinism. We are reasonable people, we know that there is a natural phenomenon known as adaptive evolution. That's not the problem, the problem is the naturalistic assumptions of Darwinism. I would ask you to consider the distinction.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Are you saying you agree with Micro-evolution and disagree with Macro-evolutionism?
 
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mark kennedy

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Don't do it. That's their scheme, to "purify" the faith by driving from salvation in Christ all who will not submit to their interpretation of scripture. Don't fall for it; keep true to your faith in Christ whatever they say.
It's not an interpretation, it's what the Scriptures teach. Creation is essential doctrine and that is the whole point of creationism's opposition to Darwinism.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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mark kennedy

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Are you saying you agree with Micro-evolution and disagree with Macro-evolutionism?
I don't use those terms, they are meaningless. My thing is genetics, see my signature. There are limits beyond which things cannot evolve, genetics has taught us this.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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Speedwell

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It's not an interpretation, it's what the Scriptures teach. Creation is essential doctrine and that is the whole point of creationism's opposition to Darwinism.

Grace and peace,
Mark
A Christian has to believe "in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, And of all things visible and invisible." The amount of hostility shown by Creationists towards Christians who don't believe it happened during six days in October, 4004 BC is nothing but an effort to drive them from Christ.
 
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-57

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I don't use those terms, they are meaningless. My thing is genetics, see my signature. There are limits beyond which things cannot evolve, genetics has taught us this.

Grace and peace,
Mark
Thanks for clearing that up.

I have no problem with speciation. After all look what happened to the pairs of animals once they departed the ark.
I agree, there is a limit as mutations can't create/increase information in the DNA code to the point that a species has changed where it now has to be classified as a new Genus or Family.
 
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