I always miss the start of anti-evolution threads, so I figured I'd turn the tables around. Why do you reject evolution?
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For creationists: give me your arguments against evolution.
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juvenissun
... and God saw that it was good.
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You give me a fact that support evolution, then I can tell you what is wrong with that support. EVERY support to evolution has many problems.
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lewiscalledhimmaster
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Split Rock
Conflation of Blathers
1. Life on earth falls into a nested hierarchy. Nested hierarchies are only created by genetic descent.
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juvenissun
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This is a classification problem. Life can be classified according to different criteria and they ALL make nested hierarchical structure.
So, what you said is not limited to evolutional classification.
Genetic descent is another issue. It HAS BIG problem.
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lewiscalledhimmaster
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It's not that I reject Evolution, its the fact that even accepting Evolution I am treated like nothing needs to motivate me to believe it (when the whole world knows that if Evolution doesn't rally to some sort of moral cause before humanity's end, it will be derided for all eternity (even by Darwin himself, if you can believe that (yes, that's right, even a dead man - a "fossil" - can reserve the right to laugh at his own folly, madly (should God will))
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Split Rock
Conflation of Blathers
No, it is limited to any form of genetic descent, as I already indicated. Therefore, it works for human and dog pedigrees as well.
Do tell.
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There are other views on this. I don't know enough about them, however, this gentleman seems to have all his cards in his deck.
Just another look at it..
Taxonomic nested hierarchies don’t support Darwinism — transformed cladism rocks | Uncommon Descent
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Right. This is the evidence for evolution, that life falls into a nested hierarchy.
On the flip side, stuff that humans design does not fall into a nested hierarchy. Cars don't. Buildings don't. Paintings don't.
There is no such thing as "evolutional classification".
What are those problems?
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I did. It is a failed argument from the very start:
"Taxonomic nested hierarchies don’t support Darwinism or common descent, actually the opposite. Michael Denton convincingly argued that nested hierarchies can be used to argue against macro evolution. If the fish are always fish, then they will never be birds, reptiles, apes, or humans. "
You can't speak of nested hierarchies and then use paraphyletic nomenclature. You need to use monophyletic nomenclature and synapomorphies.
"Fish" are a paraphyletic group. The correct nomenclature would be a "jawed vertebrate", or gnathostomata:
Gnathostomata
Humans are still jawed vertebrates, as were our aquatic ancestors.
Creationists teaching false science does not falsify science.
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Let me see. Since anything to do with God or the Bible is tossed out as fake, mythical or unprovable... I will go with these...
1/ Life itself. Evolution has no idea where it came from, where the complex proteins came from, where DNA suddenly came from. What this brand new life form ate, got it's energy from or figured out how to make two of itself...
Even if there was one solitary life form, it would have to eat, grow and change within itself in order to for it to make two life forms.
This would take intricate, dynamic, synergistic, complex, components , energy transfer, chemical reactions and relational synthesis.
This is all based on proteins, enzymes, DNA and RNA.... All this is so intricate and complex that it must indicate something had a blue print and designed it
2/ The complexity of the human body. Any body really. Plant, animal, human. The systems it contains. Absolutely brilliant. Brain, heart, lungs, kidney's, spleen, nerve cells. Oh ya, and the eyeball, fascinating. The excretory system, endocrine system, digestive system... the list goes on . Every organism has these complex systems, all made up of tiny cells with mitochondria, nucleoli, plasma, ribosomes.
All working together.
3/ The existence of sexual reproduction. All animals, male and female, specifically designed for their own type of sexual organs. Cow with cow, horse with horse, cat with cat, human with human...
Yet, how could a single cell, which, if it ever did figure out how to replicate, go from reproducing by making two from one all the time to needing two organisms, of the same type, of opposite sex, that somehow developed perfectly matching sex organs of male and female. What if they all morphed into female. OR, male? How did the male know to be formed the way it was and have the sperm while the female was a perfect match with the ovum?
3B/ Why go to sexual reproduction from asexual if it only made the possibility of extinction more of a problem.
4/ Love, sympathy, compassion, empathy, All these are feelings toward another being (I guess for oneself too) Where did they come from? A random, single cell, single blob of life, evolved into a being that is now self aware and aware of another and cares about it?
5/ Morals, Right, Wrong, Justice, All people have this tattooed on their inner being. Even from a young age, we know what fair is, kindness is, hurt is, what is right, wrong. We all strive for justice. All over this globe, every tribe, people, clan have a knowledge of good, evil, right and wrong and it is universal...Take what is not yours...wrong in any place. Take another life.. wrong in any place. Be cruel to something that cannot protect itself, is defenseless, cornered and make it suffer... wrong anywhere.
Where did this come from? Who or what ordained it to be the law of all civilizations?
6/ If evolution was true, some humans would be better than others some races more superior, some less. Just like the birds, fish, cats, apes, any animal line.
7/ The environment, planetary systems, physical laws, all are so delicately balanced. If the earth was (on the scale of the planets) slightly closer to the sun or slightly further... no life. The speed we spin, the strength of our gravity, the speed we orbit the sun the tilt of the earth....All perfect for the seasons, and life we know on this earth to exist.
The amount of oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, moisture in the air. The fact that plants breath CO2 and expire O2 and animals breath O2 and expire CO2. The water cycle, the tides, the energy cycle of all living things and how it is perfect perpetuation.
The sun and the moon, one for day, one for night and exactly the same size in our sky yet millions of miles away from each other and way different in actual size. The way the dust on the moon is reflective dust for one purpose, give us light at night.
These, of course, are all my reasons. You don't have to agree with them. They tell me that there is no way this all came to be by a big bang, and billions of years of chance mutation and morphing of some unexplainable blob or what ever you call "life"
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No, you're treated like seeing the enormous evidence should be enough to motivate you to believe it.
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If you think the bible is provable, then prove it.
This is an argument about the origins of life, not macroevolution. An atheist would say it originated with self-replicating molecules. A deist would say that god initiated the process of evolution but evolution still took place. So this is irrelevant.
No, it just has to exist in different environments.
Millions of years can accomplish amazing things.
I don't see how this remotely disproves evolution.
Please read up on these things first. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_sexual_reproduction
Empathy is the product of evolution. Unempathetic beings would have threatened the rest of the beings and would have been removed from "society", like we do today with sociopaths.
Right, because we evolved to be empathetic. And you're just proving my side of the argument that humanity doesn't need religion to be moral.
Well individual humans do vary in ability. Some are faster runners, better at math, etc.
Race is arbitrary, all humans originated in africa.
Perfect for life as we know it to exist. There is plenty of life right here on earth that thrives in extreme environments.
And again, this has nothing to do with evolution, but with the origin of life.
This is evidence for evolution.
This has nothing to do with evolution.
Who tells you that?
It's not "chance mutation", it's natural selection.
It's not morphing, it's evolving.
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Using your logic, we would also have to throw out DNA fingerprinting and DNA based paternity tests. If we can't know where the first life came from, how can we say who a baby's father is, right?
Where is your evidence for this claim?
Why is this evidence against evolution?
That's simple enough to falsify. Meet an animal species with no male or female sexes. The common earthworm. It has both sperm and eggs in a single individual.
In fact, there are simple chordates that are also hermaphroditic.
Are there female and male bacteria?
It's called "Muller's Ratchet". Shuffling alleles as part of sexual recombination can get rid of deleterious mutations. In asexual reproduction, deleterious mutations are irreversible.
Muller's ratchet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Evolution is not random. Evolution works through natural selection. Selection is the opposite of random.
It comes from our empathic big brains that evolved.
Some humans are better at certain tasks. Have you ever watched the Olympics?
Do you marvel at how the coffee cup is exactly the same shape as the coffee?
Life evolved to fit the Earth, not the other way around.
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Wow, I didn't expect to be proven right first shot.... I said I wouldn't use anything biblical as it would be refuted and, still, even that statement..... kapow....
Anyway, moving on.
In my opinion, if you cannot say what started it, how can you state where it went from there?
Just at what point do you guys take the reigns anyway? When it has DNA and Enzymes? When it is a blob of infantile life? or when it has all the components of a cell and can replicate?
Hmm, so this new form of life didn't have to obtain outside energy, replicate, grow..?? Then how in the world did it get to be more little life forms? IF it just existed, no change, then it would still be there, poor little lonely fella.
Yep, all ya need is a big bang and lots and lots of years. Anything can happen.
If an replicating little fella keeps doing his thing and his clones their thing when does one, sorry, two little fellas decide to grow perfectly mating male and female sex organs. One in their own little morphication and the other in their little morphication. Yet, voila they fit.
That's like the Russians saying we will build a gun, you Americans build the bullet and, with no communication between the two, have a bullet that can be fired from that gun.... Ya right. And without explaining how that happens, you can throw out the whole two sexes showing up without someone saying "Hey Russia, the bullet is going to be this shape and carry this much charge and have this diameter of a projectile and need this many twist per inch in the barrel" Then Russia can build the gun to handle that charge and pressure and a chamber to fit the profile of the cartridge and the bore to fit the bullet.
Nice, however there are eggheads explaining what they think for both camps.
I'll produce a society of psychopaths and you create one with empathy and we'll see who survives...
I'm betting on the one that could give a rip about what tactics it uses, what it kills, innocent or not, women, children, sleeping, awake. And what method, whether gas, poison, fire, mutilation, torture.
Don't you see? This is why we will never win a war against the soul-less terroists. You walk into a village of women and children. They treat you like your are god's with chocolate and everything. Then when you turn around, they throw a grenade at ya. They train their children to wear bombs and walk into bus stations...
Yep, Psyscopath victory.
Again, empathy will lose in a free operating world, to the organisms that don't give a rip about morals, don't love anything, have no compassion, no concept of right and wrong. Pure evil, without a God of pure righteousness to support you, will win.
This will be the case when Christ removes the church from the earth and the tribulation is upon the earth. God will have to intervene or: "Unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved"
Yep, empathy, sympathy, compassionate people would lose, by their nature, they cannot compete.
Right you are. Some chetah's are faster than others too. However I'm talking about different races of people. Evolution would provide a hierarchy within races. My creator made all men equal. Black, white, brown... no human is "better" than another. Even if they are Carl Lewis or Wayne Gretzky.
Ya, tell that to a skin head or Hitler. Evolution is the foundation for that mindset. A true God founded mentality makes all mankind equal.
Yes it does.
Again, evolutionists don't touch that with a ten foot pole.
Of course it is....
The water cycle and all the other synergystic systems speak of a designer
Type "O" or I was tired. Meant to say there is no way you can tell me this all came from....
Not by chance... then by design?
Sorry, replace the word morphing with evolving.
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Because we have extensive evidence of where it went from there.
It's not about reigns, it's about how the first self-replicating molecule, or even first self-replicating cell, formed.
When did I say that?
Darwin's finches.
That's correct.
Read the wikipedia article first, please.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_sexual_reproduction
You wanted to know how sexual organs evolved, and that contains sufficient scientific explanations.
That's not how we evolved. There was no "psychopath society". There were individual sociopaths who threatened the rest of the group and so were removed from society.
Empathy is not pacifism.
We evolved to the species of homo sapiens. Like I said before, race is arbitrary.
Just because someone uses evolution to promote social darwinism doesn't mean evolution isn't true
god has nothing to do with discussions of evolution. The majority of the world's christians understand that evolution is true.
Richard Dawkins does. And again, it's irrelevant.
So what? Whether or not the universe was created by an intelligent being has nothing to do with evolution.
By natural selection.
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