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For Catholics - Who Is Saved?

alwayspondering

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To Athanasias:
Thanks for your question. The Catholic Church anathematized(which means to excommunicate when spoken of in Canon documents and councils) the original reformers.
I will be damned because I was a former Catholic. My breaking up from the Roman Church followed in two steps. First after my divorce 45 years ago , I did not went to church anymore and joined a Freemason lodge. To my great surprise, they were not antireligious but very open, and not worshiping Satan, like some are stating. They reconciled me with the spiritual. Remariing my divorced wife, I was on the verge to go again into church, when Cardinal Ratzinger confirmed the excommunication of Catholic Freemasons. I was scandalized about that and broke definitely with the Catholic Church. Eight years ago I went to a protestant church and became a committed Christian 6 years ago. Long time I was very angry at this cardinal, but to-day I am very grateful to him, giving me the opportunity to become protestant. Protestantism is much closer to the Holy Writ and has only, on the spiritual level, One Father, the Holy Father in Heaven and One Master or Teacher Jesus the Messiah. And nevertheless, I became convinced that Ecumenism including with the Roman Church is absolutely vital for the survival of Christianity, this in spite of my Catholic Past.
i hae studied history and the Roman Catholic Church is the Church Christ established. All the others came along in the 1500s and later. i have done much research on this.

If the catholic Church says that freemasons are not christians and should be excommunicated, then they should be.
and there are nonCatholic churches that condemn freemasonry as well
 
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alwayspondering

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That's not in the Bible...and even if some of the Jews actually did this, many of the things the Jews did under the OT are no longer applicable because of the New Testament that is based on better promises due to the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The way God deals with mankind has totally changed due to what Jesus has done...
God doesn't change. You cannot throw out the Old testament and only accept the New and call yourself a good Christian. Many of the saints and Jesus himself referred to the old testament writings. At one point in the NT there is talk of adhering to scripture - yet in those days the only scripture they had was the OLD testament

Also, New T writings weren't written down until 40 years to 100 years after Jesus ascended into Heaven. Then to make matters worse, the printing press wasn't invented by Guttenberg until 1440 so NO ONE had a Bible until then and even when this way was inventedto mass produce books, it was exorbitantly expensive to print even ONE book, so only priests and bishops had a copy

which is why they were chained to something in the Church (i think it was the pulpit?) so that they woudn't get stolen

So what were people relying on before 1440??
 
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janwoG

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To alwayspondering
If the catholic Church says that freemasons are not christians and should be excommunicated, then they should be.
and there are nonCatholic churches that condemn freemasonry as well


Freemasonry is an human institution offering to members of any belief or non believers to meditate about human ethics, similar to Ethos of Hans Küng. As an human institution, they arre not aiming to find the Absolute Truth, otherwise it would be a religion. Hence not being a religion, it has to be undogmatic. However, there is no limitation to any member to chose their own religious conviction. How could an atheist find a structure to search about ethics, if it is monopolised by religions. God has given us the freedom to sin or not to sin, to believe or not to believe with the consequences of one's own choice. And only God is judge.
The RC is once more afraid to loose her face, as it was the case with Galileo Galei, to admit that she was overshooting with regard to Freemasonry.
Let usp pray that our heavenly Father through Christ grant us His Peace and His love
 
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Rhamiel

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To alwayspondering
If the catholic Church says that freemasons are not christians and should be excommunicated, then they should be.
and there are nonCatholic churches that condemn freemasonry as well

Freemasonry is an human institution offering to members of any belief or non believers to meditate about human ethics, similar to Ethos of Hans Küng. As an human institution, they arre not aiming to find the Absolute Truth, otherwise it would be a religion. Hence not being a religion, it has to be undogmatic. However, there is no limitation to any member to chose their own religious conviction. How could an atheist find a structure to search about ethics, if it is monopolised by religions. God has given us the freedom to sin or not to sin, to believe or not to believe with the consequences of one's own choice. And only God is judge.
The RC is once more afraid to loose her face, as it was the case with Galileo Galei, to admit that she was overshooting with regard to Freemasonry.
Let usp pray that our heavenly Father through Christ grant us His Peace and His love

the Freemasons are based off of ideas and ideals of the Enlightenment, with a Universalist mindset, it puts human reason above divine revelation and it encourages a vague deism
it is not a christian group, plane and simple, if people think they can have two masters they are mistaken
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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No, God says I'm a new Creature in Christ Jesus...right now!
Because of the cleansing of the Blood of the Lamb, I'm righteous...right now!

Either we have been set free...or God is a liar!
I choose to believe God is no liar.
:thumbsup: :amen: :liturgy:

Reve 9 And they are singing a song new saying "worthy are Thou to be receiving the scroll and to open up the seals of it that Thou was slain/slaughtered, and did purchase to the God of us in the blood of Thee out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation".

http://www.christianforums.com/t7245442-2/#post47285908
The "lambkin" in Revelation and John 21 question
 
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alwayspondering

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To alwayspondering
If the catholic Church says that freemasons are not christians and should be excommunicated, then they should be.
and there are nonCatholic churches that condemn freemasonry as well

Freemasonry is an human institution offering to members of any belief or non believers to meditate about human ethics, similar to Ethos of Hans Küng. As an human institution, they arre not aiming to find the Absolute Truth, otherwise it would be a religion. Hence not being a religion, it has to be undogmatic. However, there is no limitation to any member to chose their own religious conviction. How could an atheist find a structure to search about ethics, if it is monopolised by religions. God has given us the freedom to sin or not to sin, to believe or not to believe with the consequences of one's own choice. And only God is judge.
The RC is once more afraid to loose her face, as it was the case with Galileo Galei, to admit that she was overshooting with regard to Freemasonry.
Let usp pray that our heavenly Father through Christ grant us His Peace and His love


.
You and i come from a totally different "planet"

i believe (know) that the RCC was instituted on Earth by Jesus Christ Himself. Once a person knwos THAT all the puzzle pieces fall together and form the whole picture

Once you know that you don't have to look for other belief systems and you don't NEED a lot of things that unbelivers "need" (uh, think they need) Jesus was sent Here not only to die for us humans and pay t he price for our sins, which we could never do on our own... He also came to heal us and part of the healing means not NEEDING things that are not good for us.

Masonry is NOT good for a person. A devout Cathlic would never NEED masonry.

various individual lodges may not be antiCatholic but in the higher levels there is a lOT Of antiCatholicism. In fact higher up Masons are attempting to utterly destroy the Catholic Church. that should tell you something right there. Who else has always wanted to destroy the Church Christ established?

name starts with S... he was in the Garden of Eden

i had more but i have to get outa here..
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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janwoG

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To Rhamiel:
the Freemasons are based off of ideas and ideals of the Enlightenment, with a Universalist mindset, it puts human reason above divine revelation and it encourages a vague deism
Human reason is relative, Divine revelation is absolute and is beyond the scope of Freemasonry

it is not a christian group, plane and simple, if people think they can have two masters they are mistaken
Since Freemasonry is not a religion, as a consequence it is not Christian. Within the scope of Freemasonry, one is his own master. If your personal conviction leads you to submit to God, your Master is God, but this also is beyond the scope of Freemasonry. Freemasonry may be a philosophical circle but has no ambition to represent the Ultimate Truth. This you find in Religion. Don’t project your religious structure on Freemasonry. These are on two different levels.
Do not judge if I am a Christian or not. Because if you are wrong, you condemn you yourself. By the way I practice Christian meditation with a group of Catholics, most of them are charismatic.
To alwayspondering:
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']various individual lodges may not be anti-Catholic but in the higher levels there is a lOT Of antiCatholicism. In fact higher up Masons are attempting to utterly destroy the Catholic Church. that should tell you something right there. Who else has always wanted to destroy the Church Christ established?[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I am a high grade Mason, and neither thinks to destroy the Church of Rome, all the more I am convinced to need Her partnership in Ecumenism, which is an order of Jesus. Occasionally I question some aspects of the Roman Church, I don’t find consistent with the Gospels. I have published for what I stand for, and you can find it under my posts.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']By the way, the Freemasonry has lost many members and most of its influence, since the mid of last century. For my part, my commitment to Freemasonry has been superseded by my commitment to our Triune Lord, since I became a committed and confessing Christian. However, I have no reason to break from my Freemason brothers who were fair and did no wrong to me. My first reply was just to report from my experience and what Freemasonry did for me. If Freemasonry would have as bad as the reputation you report, to-day I would not be in this forum, as witness of God, but side with this English guy, I don’t remember his name who made a movie about the conflict in Palestine, stating that religions are essentially wicked, harmful, and a catastrophe to humanity. One should forbid them to poison the children’ mind or altogether erase them from our planet.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] Do not pay attention to the little freemason mouse in the corner of your house, but rather to the elephant tramping before your doorstep, I name the global paganism with its self worship and self idolatry, called in revelation the religion of the beast, which is threatening us altogether.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Dear brothers in Christ, since Freemasonry is not a landmark of Christianity, we better dialogue on what is our common ground. Let us acknowledge the mystical submission of this young Jewish women called Mary, to Her Lord and Savior more than 2000 years ago; who became the mother of Jesus our Messiah and through Jesus our spiritual mother. Let her example be a source of inspiration to us.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']In the name of the Only One God, by the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost Who grants us through the Father His Love and Peace. [/FONT]
 
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alwayspondering

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you don't seem to know history very well...

when the "reformation" was in full swing, priests were persecuted, not allowed to say the Mass and even murdered. People used to hide priests in England and those who did were also punished severely.

Ever read anything about Calvin? He had a man burned at the stake just cuz he disagreed with his theology.

no one group of humans is any better than the other.

But Catholicism, when devoutly practiced, is a beautiful religion that changes people and therby changes the world. I'll be the 1st to admit not all Catholics are real Catholics but the ones who ARE are more polite, more caring, volunteer more, pray for others more.. than any other religion i've known or heard of

This is because it is the religion Christ founded. Until 1521 when Luther got disgruntled and went on an ego trip, there was only ONE Christain Church
 
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alwayspondering

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To Rhamiel:
the Freemasons are based off of ideas and ideals of the Enlightenment, with a Universalist mindset, it puts human reason above divine revelation and it encourages a vague deism
Human reason is relative, Divine revelation is absolute and is beyond the scope of Freemasonry

it is not a christian group, plane and simple, if people think they can have two masters they are mistaken
Since Freemasonry is not a religion, as a consequence it is not Christian. Within the scope of Freemasonry, one is his own master. If your personal conviction leads you to submit to God, your Master is God, but this also is beyond the scope of Freemasonry. Freemasonry may be a philosophical circle but has no ambition to represent the Ultimate Truth. This you find in Religion. Don’t project your religious structure on Freemasonry. These are on two different levels.
Do not judge if I am a Christian or not. Because if you are wrong, you condemn you yourself. By the way I practice Christian meditation with a group of Catholics, most of them are charismatic.
To alwayspondering:
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']various individual lodges may not be anti-Catholic but in the higher levels there is a lOT Of antiCatholicism. In fact higher up Masons are attempting to utterly destroy the Catholic Church. that should tell you something right there. Who else has always wanted to destroy the Church Christ established?[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I am a high grade Mason, and neither thinks to destroy the Church of Rome, all the more I am convinced to need Her partnership in Ecumenism, which is an order of Jesus. Occasionally I question some aspects of the Roman Church, I don’t find consistent with the Gospels. I have published for what I stand for, and you can find it under my posts.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']By the way, the Freemasonry has lost many members and most of its influence, since the mid of last century. For my part, my commitment to Freemasonry has been superseded by my commitment to our Triune Lord, since I became a committed and confessing Christian. However, I have no reason to break from my Freemason brothers who were fair and did no wrong to me. My first reply was just to report from my experience and what Freemasonry did for me. If Freemasonry would have as bad as the reputation you report, to-day I would not be in this forum, as witness of God, but side with this English guy, I don’t remember his name who made a movie about the conflict in Palestine, stating that religions are essentially wicked, harmful, and a catastrophe to humanity. One should forbid them to poison the children’ mind or altogether erase them from our planet.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] Do not pay attention to the little freemason mouse in the corner of your house, but rather to the elephant tramping before your doorstep, I name the global paganism with its self worship and self idolatry, called in revelation the religion of the beast, which is threatening us altogether.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Dear brothers in Christ, since Freemasonry is not a landmark of Christianity, we better dialogue on what is our common ground. Let us acknowledge the mystical submission of this young Jewish women called Mary, to Her Lord and Savior more than 2000 years ago; who became the mother of Jesus our Messiah and through Jesus our spiritual mother. Let her example be a source of inspiration to us.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']In the name of the Only One God, by the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost Who grants us through the Father His Love and Peace. [/font]


.
depending on your definition, masonry could be considered a religion. Some masons admit that it is.

the popes were against it because, for one, the masons soght to destroy the Catholic Church and this is still their goal in the higher levels.

then i also heard that there is a masonry behind actual freemasonry, which is satanic. So most people involved in masonry do not know what is going on in the h igher (uh... so called) levels and would not agree to it if they knew. From what i can gather, the lower members are just pawns used by the ones at the higher levels. Even those in the 32nd degree don't know what is going on in that masonry behind masonry. Probably, no one does but the members... which is another reason the Catholic Church condemnss it - it is ultra secretive

I'm certainly glad the Catholic Church isn't secretive and exclusive - meaning only allowing certain people in. Women cannot become Masons (one good thing about being a woman :)) and until recently Blacks were not allowed.

I don't have time to read your whole post but hope to later.

whatever masonry is, it is certainly not Christian and Jesus said that if you are not for Him, you are againt Him
 
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M

MamaZ

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you don't seem to know history very well...

when the "reformation" was in full swing, priests were persecuted, not allowed to say the Mass and even murdered. People used to hide priests in England and those who did were also punished severely.

Ever read anything about Calvin? He had a man burned at the stake just cuz he disagreed with his theology.

no one group of humans is any better than the other.

But Catholicism, when devoutly practiced, is a beautiful religion that changes people and therby changes the world. I'll be the 1st to admit not all Catholics are real Catholics but the ones who ARE are more polite, more caring, volunteer more, pray for others more.. than any other religion i've known or heard of

This is because it is the religion Christ founded. Until 1521 when Luther got disgruntled and went on an ego trip, there was only ONE Christain Church
Digruntled? I believe it had more to do with it that Luther being disgruntled.
 
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janwoG

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Dear alwayspondering,
I would be glad to open a post about Christianity and Freemasonry not in this forum but in outreach, since some may be interested in that topic. Although, I would do it not before January 2011, because of my priorities. I will send you message, that it will happen priorities are to publish posts on:
The four pillars of our faith: the gospels
Buddhism and God creator of the three Abrahamic religions.
Peace for Israel
Can ecumenism be linked to the religion of the beast in revelation?
How can the Roman church become spiritual leader in the Christianity?
Blessings and peace from our Lord
 
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alwayspondering

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Digruntled? I believe it had more to do with it that Luther being disgruntled.
.

.
maybe if you read the book The Facts About Luther you wouldn't be so into thinking he was a hero

he was a sinful human being

but the One who established the Roman Catholic Church... different story
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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.

maybe if you read the book The Facts About Luther you wouldn't be so into thinking he was a hero

he was a sinful human being

but the One who established the Roman Catholic Church... different story
According to this site, some of the RCC's Popes weren't exactly Mother Theresa types :)

One-Evil.Org | The unified understanding, revelation and truth of Evil

nav_home_people.jpg


Pope Pius XII
Wlodimir Ledochowski SJ
Fr Joseph Stalin SJ
Heinrich Himmler SJ



St. Vlad Dracula

Francis of Assisi
Pope Sergius III
Pope Innocent III
Pope Boniface VIII
Adolf Hitler
Pope Adrian IV
Christopher Columbus
Dwight D, Eisenhower
Pope Pius IX
Ivan IV of Russia
Oliver Cromwell
Pope Urban II
St. David (Dawi)
St. Lucius of Cyrene
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Mao Zedong
 
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M

MamaZ

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.

.
maybe if you read the book The Facts About Luther you wouldn't be so into thinking he was a hero

he was a sinful human being

but the One who established the Roman Catholic Church... different story
What makes you believe I think Luther is a hero? Most of your popes were sinful human beings so whats your point?
 
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