For Catholics only: Is this a mortal sin?

[Dream]

I'm just saying everybody does it.

...Which does not diminish the sinfullness.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Just because a priest doesn't think it's serious, or assign a heavy penance, doesn't mean it isn't.

You know, on this you and I agree: The pastors of our flock should be ignored when we don't agree with them.

 

[Paul S]

Where are you getting that its a grave matter from ?

From the Catechism's use of "gravely disordered", as well as the tradition of the Church in so teaching.

But, if you don't want to believe it's grave matter, go right on ahead, but don't be surprised if God tells you it is one day.

 

[Paul S]

Wouldn't you say that trying not to have premarital sex is a social factor??

Possibly - but which is worse, offending man or offending God?

"Everybody does it" isn't really an excuse. We all sin - why are we all here wondering whether these sins are mortal or venial? If we commit them, we need to be sorry for them, confess them, and make a firm resolution to never do them again.

It really sounds like some posts here are trying to justify sin.

 

[bostonlass]

Just because a priest doesn't think it's serious, or assign a heavy penance, doesn't mean it isn't.

And, while both are disordered, premarital sex can be much more dangerous, because there's the potential for creating a new life. Masturbation, and the use of pornography that often accompanies it, are serious, and can lead to problems, but not in the same way pregnancy can.

ew to the pornography. I think that's where men are different from women but I won't go there.

 

[Dream]

ok....I've done both. And I've confessed both. When I confessed premarital sex I got a looooong lecture including questions of whether I intend to marry the guy I was having sex with and then I got like 5 our fathers, 5 hail mary's and had to promise to live my life in a chaste manner while unmarried and refrain from the sex.

When I confessed masturbation I got one our father and no speech no questions just a request to do a good act of contrition.

A penance is never meant to be a punishment.

 

[colleen]

God giving room for His mercy shouldn't leave his followers to find loopholes in his law. Even if a sin is not mortal it shouldn't be an action we don't mind doing. And, I think the church has been pretty clear on its idea that ends do not justify the means.
Colleen

 

[Paul S]

You know, on this you and I agree: The pastors of our flock should be ignored when we don't agree with them.

No, they should be ignored when they disagree with the teaching of the Church.

And, I never said anything about not agreeing with that priest. In any case, the giving of penance and advice is not infallible - it's part of the pastoral judgment of the priest, who can get it wrong sometimes (they're human, too).

 

[Paul S]

I think that's where men are different from women but I won't go there.

Let's not.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

From the Catechism's use of "gravely disordered", as well as the tradition of the Church in so teaching.

But, if you don't want to believe it's grave matter, go right on ahead, but don't be surprised if God tells you it is one day.

Gravely disordered is not equivilent to grave matter.

It's not, really, Its not even close.

The only thing that would surpirse me is if God told me he was holding a spot on St. Anthony's crew for me.

 

[Paul S]

God giving room for His mercy shouldn't leave his followers to find loopholes in his law. Even if a sin is not mortal it shouldn't be an action we don't mind doing. And, I think the church has been pretty clear on its idea that ends do not justify the means.
Colleen

Amen.

 

[bostonlass]

Possibly - but which is worse, offending man or offending God?

"Everybody does it" isn't really an excuse. We all sin - why are we all here wondering whether these sins are mortal or venial? If we commit them, we need to be sorry for them, confess them, and make a firm resolution to never do them again.

It really sounds like some posts here are trying to justify sin.

I'm not. I've just had a couple of beers and am bored and figured if I ever date anyone again I'd like to know if I can use the ole "touch before going out" rule to keep me from premarital sex. I think I know my answer and to be quite honest I would always feel the need to confess it and I HATE confessing that one because I just *know* my priest knows my voice and I'm absolutely crimson when I go to get communion the next time after I confess it so I'll just stay out of this from hereonend.

 

[Dream]

God giving room for His mercy shouldn't leave his followers to find loopholes in his law. Even if a sin is not mortal it shouldn't be an action we don't mind doing. And, I think the church has been pretty clear on its idea that ends do not justify the means.
Colleen

Exactly.

 

[Paul S]

Gravely disordered is not equivilent to grave matter.

It's not, really, Its not even close.

Where are you getting that from? Your opinion?

How can "gravely disordered" possibly mean "it's perfectly fine to do"?

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Possibly - but which is worse, offending man or offending God?

An interesting Theological question, ask me on another thread some day.



We could all 13 rounds.

 

[Paul S]

I'm not.

I didn't say you.

I think I know my answer and to be quite honest I would always feel the need to confess it and I HATE confessing that one because I just *know* my priest knows my voice and I'm absolutely crimson when I go to get communion the next time after I confess it so I'll just stay out of this from hereonend.

If you know the answer, but you're hoping there's a loophole, that sounds like it might be full knowledge.

Perhaps the shame of confessing it will help to keep from committing the sin in the first place. There's sins I don't like having to confess, but that doesn't make them any less mortal.

It would be a lot more fun if all the sexual sins weren't sins at all. I'd much prefer that they weren't. But, they're not my rules - they're God's. And, if the penalty is hell, forever, we better follow them. Even better, if we truly love Him, we'll do what He wants.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Where are you getting that from? Your opinion?

How can "gravely disordered" possibly mean "it's perfectly fine to do"?

How about an English dictionary ? disorder is not the same as matter.

Just becaue the word gravely is in front of a word does not mean the word after it automatically mean matter,

see ? They didn't say grave matter they said gravely disordered.

difference.


And, smartie, it doesn't mean perfectly fine to do either.

It means, gravely disordered.

It does not not mortal sin either.

It means screwed up, missed the mark, it does not mean going to hell

see ?

 

[Dream]

When looking at any sexual sin, it's good to put things in perspective:

The pleasure: momentary, the means: degrading, the punishment: eternal.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

When looking at any sexual sin, it's good to put things in perspective:

The pleasure: momentary, the means: degrading, the punishment: eternal.

He we are again condeming people to hell on imperfect knowledge.

 

[Dream]

He we are again condeming people to hell on imperfect knowledge.

I am not condeming anybody. I too have been guilty of many sins in this area that I am not proud of. But the punishment may very well be eternal; there is no reason to take such a risk.