For Athesists

[Icystwolf]

Can athesists question Christians without verbally abusing them?
Can they make good arguments without using assumptions?
Can they hold themselves responsible for the things they say?
Can they humble?
Can they accept that their fault is their fault?
Can they finally prove God dosen't exist, even though he does exist?
Can they actually prove the Bible God dosen't exist?

If the Bible God dosen't exist, and yet there is really a God...would he not be present in one of the religions of the world today...and if so, which is it? and why?

If athesist believe that the Bible God is not the God that exists in the universe, does that mean theres an athesist god.....

Thus, Christians have God and Jesus as Lord, Jews have God or Yaweh, Muslims have allah, Hindui have billions of gods, taoism have their ancestors as gods....etc......and now we have a new religion of Athesists whom claim there is an unknown, unacting, fully conceptualised and existance of a true god that is not God of the Bible.

Hmmmm.........

 

[DoomMoose]

Can you prove he does exist?

 

[Arikay]

Im assumeing you mean atheist.

"Can athesists question Christians without verbally abusing them?"

Yes

"Can they make good arguments without using assumptions?"

Yes

"Can they hold themselves responsible for the things they say?"

Yes

"Can they humble?"

Yes

"Can they accept that their fault is their fault?"

Yes

"Can they finally prove God dosen't exist, even though he does exist?"

God is unprovable. Currently no one can prove, or disprove god.
However,
"Can they make good arguments without using assumptions?"
comes to mind.

"Can they actually prove the Bible God dosen't exist?"

Nope. But they can show that the bible god is unlikely, or at least, just as likly as other gods.

"If the Bible God dosen't exist, and yet there is really a God...would he not be present in one of the religions of the world today...and if so, which is it? and why?"

Dont know.

"If athesist believe that the Bible God is not the God that exists in the universe, does that mean theres an athesist god....."

Nope. Im assumeing you mean atheist, and an atheist is someone who lacks a belief (or does not believe) in god or gods.
However, the closest to an "atheist" god, would be the god of deism. The deist god started the universe, but does not take part or interact in it after that.

"Thus, Christians have God and Jesus as Lord, Jews have God or Yaweh, Muslims have allah, Hindui have billions of gods, taoism have their ancestors as gods....etc......"

Taoists can also be atheist.

"and now we have a new religion of Athesists whom claim there is an unknown, unacting, fully conceptualised and existance of a true god that is not God of the Bible."

Can you explain more about this religion?
As atheism is just the lack of beliefe in god.

[snip]

 

[Freodin]

Can athesists question Christians without verbally abusing them?

Yes, of course.

Can they make good arguments without using assumptions?

No - but you cannot either. Nobody can. Assumptions are the base for any argument.

Can they hold themselves responsible for the things they say?

Of course. Who else should be held responsible? Satan?

Can they humble?

Humility is not based on your beliefs. Atheists can be as humble as anyone else. Why, we can even be more humble! Atheists are the most humble people in the world! (Hey, what happened to the wink-smily? Let´s see if this works )

Can they accept that their fault is their fault?

Again, this does not depend on you beliefs. Some Atheists can, some can´t - same as with Christians.

Can they finally prove God dosen't exist, even though he does exist?

If he did exist, there could be no "final proof" for his non-existence, could there?
No, there God cannot be disproven, but he cannot be proven as well.

Can they actually prove the Bible God dosen't exist?

Not finally, but this is better "provable" than the non-existence of a non-specific God.

If the Bible God dosen't exist, and yet there is really a God...would he not be present in one of the religions of the world today...and if so, which is it? and why?

Why should any of the religions be true? Perhaps God created the universe, and did never mind humans. Maybe the true religion is only for cats - which are the peak of creation. Or God created the universe for the nice colours of the Crab Nebula - and was never interested in life at all.

If athesist believe that the Bible God is not the God that exists in the universe, does that mean theres an athesist god.....

If an Atheist would believe in any kind of God, he would not be an Atheist, now would he?

Thus, Christians have God and Jesus as Lord, Jews have God or Yaweh, Muslims have allah, Hindui have billions of gods, taoism have their ancestors as gods....etc......and now we have a new religion of Athesists whom claim there is an unknown, unacting, fully conceptualised and existance of a true god that is not God of the Bible.

Hmmmm.........

Where did you get this notion? This would describe Deists, or Pantheists, perhaps even some forms of Agonsticism - but not Atheism. Atheists do not believe in divine beings. No Atheists would ever claim that an unkown, true god exists.

 

[AtheistWorld]

Well, considering that christians consider all atheists fools, christians have no business demmanding us atheists to be humble and certainly not before them. BUT, if they should decide to live what they preach, which would require riping out that page from the bible which does not jive with humility then we may have something to agree on.

 

[Icystwolf]

I must say that some of those posts are interesting.
Arikay:
Taoists cannot be athesists, my family in HK are taoists, they believe in hell and the spirit world.
Freodin: Interesting...atheists don't believe in anything then....
(I would like to debate you one day)
AtheistWorld: Pathetic, thought you stopped talking to me...

 

[Aceldama]

I must say that some of those posts are interesting.
Arikay:
Taoists cannot be athesists, my family in HK are taoists, they believe in hell and the spirit world.

Yarrrr, but if you are without belief in God you are atheist, so you can believe in Hell, the spirit world, Buddhism, Taoism...

 

[Aceldama]

BTW you haven't yet spelt atheist right.

 

[Icystwolf]

Yes I know I'm a bad speller...lol........

But do all atheists support your cause, that it is defined that if they believe in hell, spirit world, buddhism and taoism, they would be considered atheist?

Strange, the motivation for atheist is not that they want to truth, rather they just want to rid the world of God, and all religions because they believe religion is dangerous...

Also make a note, a particular sect of taoism have been involved with human sacrifices...in particular with small children.

 

[Job24]

Well, considering that christians consider all atheists fools, christians have no business demmanding us atheists to be humble and certainly not before them. BUT, if they should decide to live what they preach, which would require riping out that page from the bible which does not jive with humility then we may have something to agree on.

so you are doing exactly what you allege that we christians do and make a broad assumption that we think all athiests are fools... I dont think they are fools because I have spoken to very intellegent athiests... I do however believe that they are strayed from faith and that is the largest problem with them... they have no faith and always try to seek the truth of things if only they could see them.... The Bible is true and has never been proven otherwise... anything you say is pure assumption and until otherwise the fact that we are trying to all convert you is our job as christians .... the fact that I am saying Jesus Christ is our lord is my way of humbling myself before him...

 

[Icystwolf]

Great job , Job24...

there are a couple of intelligent atheists, atheistWorld isn't one of them. Thus his assumption....

 

[Judilyn]

Job 24 I was just about to say that. I am a Christian and I do not think that all atheist are fools. I too have had some very sincere, intellegent conversations with a few of them.
I believe that they are being deceived by the enemy.

Freodin...
Since you make reference to Satan I assume you believe that he exist? If I miss understood I apologize but since coming to this forum I have seen a few people make reference to him but deny God. I will never understand how anyone can say God does not exist but Satan does.

 

[Dyrwen]

Yes I know I'm a bad speller...lol........

But do all atheists support your cause, that it is defined that if they believe in hell, spirit world, buddhism and taoism, they would be considered atheist?

Strange, the motivation for atheist is not that they want to truth, rather they just want to rid the world of God, and all religions because they believe religion is dangerous...

Also make a note, a particular sect of taoism have been involved with human sacrifices...in particular with small children.

There is no "motivation" nor "cause" of an atheist. All atheists merely have a lack of belief in all gods. There are no gods there, but I suppose some atheists such as Buddhists feel that it's possible to live through some other medium of the supernatural, which may not follow a line of logic too well, but it's still rational to the concept of having a lack of belief in "gods". As that's all that enters into the definition.

Last time I checked, atheists aren't trying to rid the world of gods, but ridding the world of "God" might be a just cause considering all the wars and death it's caused. Just citing a little example of why some might want to do that. Suprisingly, most atheists seek out the "truth" more so than theists, as they never accept much without much evidence and proof of it's existence of validity. In some ways, an atheist has found more truth than anyone who just "believes" and does so that strongly that they can actually call it a "truth" rather than a fact.

As for your sacrifices point, look in the OT for references that people have always been doing that sort of thing. Atheists are not part of a religion, but some have a religion. Atheist or theist, those are the two choices there. Religions, dogmas, ideals, feelings are all added on by the individual themself.

 

[Arikay]

Yes Taoists can be atheist. Me being a Taoist and an atheist.
There are generally two types of Taoists, religious Taoists and Philosophical Taoists. Religious taoists often believe in gods and spirits, etc. Philosophical taoists stick more to the basic philosophy of the writtings, leaving out the spirits and gods.

And to slightly answer your comment to Freodin. Atheists lack a belief (or dont believe) in god or gods. No more, No less. Atheism is a blanket word. Just like theism.

I must say that some of those posts are interesting.
Arikay:
Taoists cannot be athesists, my family in HK are taoists, they believe in hell and the spirit world.
Freodin: Interesting...atheists don't believe in anything then....
(I would like to debate you one day)
AtheistWorld: Pathetic, thought you stopped talking to me...

 

[the_malevolent_milk_man]

"Wanting to rid the world of God"... that's kind of misleading. I'm sure somewhere there are some atheists plotting world domination in their parents basement. For the average atheist however it's more like wanting to rid the government of religious laws and dogmas that have nothing to do with justice.

 

[TooCurious]

For the purposes of this little “Spanish Inquisition” (Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!), I will assume that Icystwolf intends “atheist” by “athesists”, and in my reply, I will respond as the “typical atheist” (i.e. a hypothetical person defined solely by his/her atheism).

Can athesists question Christians without verbally abusing them?

Of course. Many atheists are nice, respectful people. Of course, that really depends on what the Christian considers “verbal abuse.” If they define it as questioning the veracity of their beliefs, then that leads to problems.


Can Christians do the reverse?

Can they make good arguments without using assumptions?

Many atheists are rationalists, meaning that they derive their understanding of the world through logic and objectivity. Formal logic derives conclusions from verifiable premises. You might refer to premises as “assumptions,” but generally premises must be mutually agreed upon before the debate can continue. So, yes.

Can they hold themselves responsible for the things they say?

Of course.

Can they humble?

I didn’t know “humble” could be used as an intransitive verb. But for all that many Christians claim that atheists see themselves as insignificant specks in a vast and meaningless universe, I didn’t realize that humility was a problem. But yes, atheists do indeed have the capacity for humility.

Can they accept that their fault is their fault?

As opposed to what? If you mean as opposed to blaming their failings on a mythical character like Satan, then yes, atheists can accept their own faults.

Can they finally prove God dosen't exist, even though he does exist?

(1) Atheists don’t have to prove that God doesn’t exist. They simply don’t believe it does.

(2) You assume that God exists. Can you “finally prove” that it does?

Can they actually prove the Bible God dosen't exist?

Again, the burden of proof does not fall upon the atheist, but about the theist, who makes a positive claim about the existence of the god of the bible.

If the Bible God dosen't exist, and yet there is really a God...would he not be present in one of the religions of the world today...and if so, which is it? and why?

Is this question being posed to atheists? Because atheists don’t believe in any gods, by definition. If, hypothetically, a god exists that was not the god of the bible, an atheist would not know which, if any, of the world’s religions was right about it.

If athesist believe that the Bible God is not the God that exists in the universe, does that mean theres an athesist god.....

Atheism, by definition, is the lack of belief in a god or gods. Thus, an “atheist god” is an oxymoron.

Thus, Christians have God and Jesus as Lord, Jews have God or Yaweh, Muslims have allah, Hindui have billions of gods, taoism have their ancestors as gods....etc......and now we have a new religion of Athesists whom claim there is an unknown, unacting, fully conceptualised and existance of a true god that is not God of the Bible.

Atheists claim no such thing. That is an absurd assertion. Furthermore, atheism is not a religion. Please get your facts straight.

Strange, the motivation for atheist is not that they want to truth, rather they just want to rid the world of God, and all religions because they believe religion is dangerous...

That’s an interesting generalization. Wouldn’t it be nice if it had some basis in reality?

(1) All the atheists that I know, myself included, are, in fact, interested in truth.

(2) Atheists don’t believe that any gods exist, so how could they desire to rid the world of them?

(3) It is absurd to claim that atheists want to rid the world of all religion. “Atheists” are not a monolithic body, like Microsoft. They are individuals with their own desires and goals, as well as being by and large reasonable people. Certainly some atheists believe that religion is dangerous, other atheists think that some religions are dangerous and detrimental, and many other atheists take a “live and let live” stance toward religion.

I do however believe that they are strayed from faith and that is the largest problem with them...

(a) “Strayed from the faith” implies that all atheists were once Christians (i.e. members of “the faith"). Clearly this is not so.

(b) Why is it a problem for you that some people don’t believe the same things you do?

they have no faith and always try to seek the truth of things if only they could see them....

You imply that atheists’ lack of faith renders them unable to “see things.” Explain how this is so and provide evidence.

The Bible is true and has never been proven otherwise...

Actually, the burden of proof falls on those who make the positive claim that the stories in the Bible are “true” and divinely inspired.

 

[Icystwolf]

Oh do I hear a contradiction?

The Big athesist that was banned specifically said:
"As soon as we rid the world of all religions, the sooner we can get on with life and technology"

Then he was backed up by another two atheists who agreed on that term.

So, what basis are you looking for? Is the atheist organisation a bit dis-organised in their thoughts, ideas and concepts...that contradict each other, and blame in on Christians again?

So let me get this straight....

Do you agree or disagree with the statement made by "PoliticsForum" that all atheist have the motivation to rid the world of all religions?

If you agree, then you're eating your own words, if you disagree, that would mean the proud atheist "PoliticsForum" is not really an atheist at all....


So whats your answer before you make another shallow move on Christians?

 

[Icystwolf]

Too curious, you don't understand anymore do you?

The hardcore atheists in this world agreed that there exists a God, but not the God from the Bible.

So what kind of an atheist are you?

Thats why I pulled these questions up, because the definition is so clear to me, that atheist do not believe in a God or any gods.....yet I continually hear that atheist pull out arguments that there is a God because else it's impossible for the universe to form, whilst the Biblical God is impossible.

If you can clear these confusions up, then I can finally understand the true structure of atheisim, because currently it's all over the place.

 

[Arikay]

1) There is no "atheist organization"
As I have mentioned, "atheist" is a huge umbrella encompassing many beliefs, ideas, good people, bad people, etc. There is no such thing as an "atheist opinion that holds true for All atheists" except the lack of belief in god.

2) As far as god starting the universe. I think you might be confused. Our current universe, there is a Possibility that god started. Many atheists dont deny this. However, an atheist does not believe god started the universe.
If they did, they would be closer to a deist than an atheist.

 

[Fovezer]

Too curious, you don't understand anymore do you?

The hardcore atheists in this world agreed that there exists a God, but not the God from the Bible.

No atheist has ever said that there was a god, because then they wouldn't be an atheist.

Thats why I pulled these questions up, because the definition is so clear to me, that atheist do not believe in a God or any gods.....yet I continually hear that atheist pull out arguments that there is a God because else it's impossible for the universe to form, whilst the Biblical God is impossible.

If you can clear these confusions up, then I can finally understand the true structure of atheisim, because currently it's all over the place.

I have NEVER heard an atheist use that arguement before, because, once again, no atheist will ever say that there is a god, because then they wouldn't be an atheist. An atheist may say that a god is a possibility to explain how we got here, but he is not saying that there is a god or that is how we got here.

There is no "structure of atheism" because it isn't anything more than a lack of belief in a god. Is that so hard to comprehend?