For Atheists

[razeontherock]

Check out Skeptics dictionary, they provide an accurate reasoning behind the Ouija board "events".

They have not seen what I have seen. Dodge attempt by all atheists duly noted.

 

[razeontherock]

Also I don't see the connection between ghosts and God. Surely if God existed then all the dead spirits would be in heaven/hell/limbo/purgatory. I am fairly sure that earth bound spirits do not feature in Christian theology (I don't know this it's just a guess and if I'm wrong let me know).

Ok you're wrong. What do you think we're dealing with here? It ain't casper.

 

[theomegajuice]

which bit of my logic was a red herring?
Or are you saying that I meant to say 'Ghosts are a red herring for arguing for God', because in that case you are right.

 

[theomegajuice]

What does the Bible say about ghosts? I seriously have no idea.
This still doesn't take away from my point which is, you don't need any sort of religious belief to believe in ghosts and why would you believe in ghosts anyway because the evidence for it/them is poor.

 

[razeontherock]

which bit of my logic was a red herring?

If you look at my post you're responding to, you'll see I wasn't responding to you. Now, on to what you've said:

Ghosts have nothing to do with this. Earth bound spirits DO have a bit-part in Christianity, but certainly are not a feature or leading role. In almost every case they're going to be either satan and his minions who followed him, or there may be a whole separate class that at one time had a (non-mankind) body and just never left when they died. There is Scriptural support for this, but like so many things it's not clearly spelled out, and this is an area I haven't even studied in depth, and He hasn't really shown me this in detail.

Now on to what's relevant that I know more about:

there are occasions in Scripture where people contacted the dead. It's not even included as anything out of the ordinary, except G-d forbids it. Now I ask you, what would Dear departed Aunt Melba really care if you spelled out JESUS on a Ouija board? And further, this still isn't likely to be any kind of controlled experiment because if all you atheists playing at home do this, demons don't know you, you don't know Jesus, and therefore His Name is not anything they'll respect. If anything they might attack you out of spite.

But get one of these things (that has been actively used of course) in the Presence of blood bought believers and do that and watch what happens.

The OP was positing that if there is a spiritual realm at all, it's a game changer for 99 out of 100 atheists.

 

[Delphiki]

Where is the line drawn, then, as far as artifacts and board games being 'evidence' of spirits and ghosts? Is the Magic 8 Ball really magic? Playing MASH? The horoscopes in the newspaper? Additionally, I thought much of these kinds of games and activities are 'vorboten' by a majority of serious Christians.

I've seen some strange unexplainable things as well, like an oven being turned off seemingly on it's own, preventing the cookies from being over done -- but I don't usually default to seriously believing in ghosts. Granted, we liked to joke that the ghost in my girlfriends house was named George. There is always a logical explanation for things, whether we know what the explanation is or not.

Simply stating "you haven't seen the stuff I've seen, man" is still not evidence for anything.

 

[razeontherock]

stating "you haven't seen the stuff I've seen" is still not evidence

Quite wrong. It was evidence. You weren't there. You missed it. That does nothing to make it any less evidentiary. And at this point, your usage of the word "ghosts" (other than good ol' George) has become a strawman.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Ideomotor effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[razeontherock]

Yeah, except spelling things out being human activity isn't what's contested.

 

[KIYX]

They have not seen what I have seen. Dodge attempt by all atheists duly noted.

Mewtwox represents all atheists?

Is it ok if we assume that Phelps represents you?

 

[Lord Emsworth]

They have not seen what I have seen. Dodge attempt by all atheists duly noted.

And you have not seen what Isabella Santiago has seen. Dodge attempt by everybody duly noted.


And don't forget that what she has seen is evidence. And that now, that you have been given evidence, you should reconsider.

 

[SithDoughnut]

Quite wrong. It was evidence. You weren't there. You missed it. That does nothing to make it any less evidentiary. And at this point, your usage of the word "ghosts" (other than good ol' George) has become a strawman.

The fact that you saw it, the rest of us didn't and you can't recreate it for us stops it being evidence. Until you can demonstrate it to others, it is not evidence for anything other than your personal views. I'm sorry, but that's just how logic and critical thinking works.

 

[razeontherock]

Sith, evidence of this nature is good for nothing other than personal views! Which is self-evident.

Elmsworth - I'm sure we're all more interested in Carmen SanDiego.

 

[Tim the Plumber]

If I say to you "I have a space rocket and can go into orbit whenever I like."

You I hope would not believe me.

That there are such things as space rockets I think you believe. I do. I have seen then on the TV and have evidence in the form of satilite comunications. All this could be faked but it would have to involve such a huge conspiricy that I think there are space rockets. There is the international space station in orbit now. But if I say I have one you would want some evidence.

If you say that you have seem a spirt or any other being "from an alternate plane" I will need to see evidence for this because it is perposterous in terms of it being different to all my previous experience of the universe. Telling me the your mother's cousin's friend once met a man who had had a sort of vision thing ish, you think, is not good enough.

I do not believe in spirits/gods/demons/pixies/Santa Clause/alternate planes of existance/crystal healing/good luck charms/djinnis or what ever because I have never seem one and because when ever these claims are investigated the claims are false.

It is important to stay in reality. The wrong beliefs of Christianity have resulted in oppositin to medical practices such as inoculation and blood transfusion which are killing children. This is evil.

 

[Grannen]

It is important to stay in reality. The wrong beliefs of Christianity have resulted in oppositin to medical practices such as inoculation and blood transfusion which are killing children. This is evil.

What? That is a false non-Christian doctrine, God never said you can't have blood transfusions, but atheists sure love to nitpick don't they? Those who say "no blood transfusions" are false prophets who substitute the Word of God with their own flawed human ideas. They are blind. They have more in common with Atheism than with God. (Stalin killed 50 million of his people let's not forget. How many people do you think died as a result of the false and non-Christian "no blood transfusion" policy.)

And even if He said "no blood transfusions", God is your Lord! You must follow him without question because ultimately there is a purpose to everything that happens and everything he commands. Who are you to question your Creator?

 

[awitch]

Who are you to question your Creator?

Hi, I'm AWitch and I question divinity all the time.

 

[Grannen]

Hi, I'm AWitch and I question divinity all the time.

Witchcraft is a sin and God makes it clear, turn or burn. There is no other way.

 

[SithDoughnut]

Witchcraft is a sin and God makes it clear, turn or burn. There is no other way.

Which is exactly why you should convert to Islam, or else you'll go to hell. That's how it works, right?

Also, yay for necro-threads!

 

[awitch]

Witchcraft is a sin and God makes it clear, turn or burn. There is no other way.

Time will tell, but if you're right, feel free to point and laugh at my suffering from heaven.

Incidentally, God kills around 25 million in the Bible and Stalin didn't like being questioned either)

 

[hikersong]

What? That is a false non-Christian doctrine, God never said you can't have blood transfusions

It's good that you don't believe that God said that and it is clearly not part of mainstream Christianity.

but atheists sure love to nitpick don't they?

Beg your pardon. You mean like Christianity automatically leads to the denial of medical advances. Sure some atheists nitpick...just like some christians do believe stuff that potentially prevents medical advances (eg to save you asking, stem cell research being wrong).

Those who say "no blood transfusions" are false prophets who substitute the Word of God with their own flawed human ideas. They are blind.

And no doubt they think you've got it wrong too.

They have more in common with Atheism than with God. (Stalin killed 50 million of his people let's not forget.

And Stalin represents all atheists of all time like the Spanish Inquisition represents all Christians of all time. Please.

How many people do you think died as a result of the false and non-Christian "no blood transfusion" policy.)

That's funny. You think they're false "atheist like" prophets...but you still feel the need to compare them favourably with a 20th century Russian leader. Where did that come from?

And even if He said "no blood transfusions", God is your Lord! You must follow him without question because ultimately there is a purpose to everything that happens and everything he commands. Who are you to question your Creator?

He wasn't questioning his creator. He was questioning Christian practise (or his own, possibly skewed, perception of it)

You, however, are now saying that it is everyone's duty to do whatever the voices in their head tell them to do. Unless he has appointed you as his messenger to tell us which voices are really from God and which one's aren't. I await personal confirmation of your authority. Until that time, beg pardon, I'm going to ignore your suggestion.