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The answer to the dilemma is understanding why there is a dilemma. Every belief of every person makes perfect sense if we can fully occupy their frame of reference. In doing this, I hope we can learn something about each other that helps us better understand what our beliefs seek to describe. And expand our perspective in the process.So what's the answer to the dilemma?
The answer to the dilemma is understanding why there is a dilemma. Every belief of every person makes perfect sense if we can fully occupy their frame of reference. In doing this, I hope we can learn something about each other that helps us better understand what our beliefs seek to describe. And expand our perspective in the process.
This is always true - to widely varying degrees.I guess that sounds a lot like how to eat an elephant!Patience is indeed a virtue!
Avonia is there a point at which the frame of reference is distorted and skewed that the view of it is fuzzy?
I like the analogy because it supports both our views. You are correct that many of the Bible authors had a unique perspective, and one that provided a view that is unique. We also see this in many indigenous traditions. Newer is not necessarily better - but newer is different.I agree with this.
But doesn't it sorta invalidate you point about having so much better data about God than those who knew Christ face to face?
JM
This is always true - to widely varying degrees.
A good analogy for this is a hologram. Every piece of the holographic film, no matter how small, contains information about the whole image - from its own viewing angle. But the smaller the piece, the more limited the projection.
There is only one frame of reference with no distortion - God's.
Col 2:14-16 - 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Even the Bible makes a distinction:2 Chron 33:8 Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.
So basically we just need to determine which sabbaths were ordinances, of the handwriting of Moses. Those have already been given here. The seventh-day Sabbath has been here since creation (before Israel) and then given in the Ten Commandments.Luke 1:6 - 6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
1) No precedence.
2) Ezekiel 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts [chag], and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities [mow'ed] of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
I want someone to give me a good reason why it cannot be both.
The seventh-day Sabbath has been here since creation (before Israel).
The sacredness of the seventh day was sanctifed and blessed before sin.
This assumption seems to negate Deuteronomy 5:1-5 and Galatians 3:15-20. Please clarify.
BFA
No problem. There's no rush around here. We're pretty laid back.Sorry I took so long to get back to you. I work at a group home where I live for four days with no access to internet.
If it was added, was in previously in place?The law was added because of transgression.
So it was not previously there?In other words, the law on stone was given because they were committing these acts so God had to spell it out for them.
Would it be safe to say that the passover had always existed?These were not new laws, they always existed.
We agree that sin exists even in the absence of law. That was true before it was added and it is also true since the Seed has come.When Cain was thinking about killing his brother Abel God said sin was at his door. What sin? The sin of murder.
How was "sin" defined for Joseph? By the law or by the Spirit? Again, we agree that sin exists even in the absence of law.Joseph would not commit adultery with Pharaoh’s wife.
Is it safe to conclude that every law written down represented distinct instructions that had always been in existence?When the leaders of Israel were picked one of the standards was that they were not to be covetous. Idolatry, profaning God’s name and keeping the Sabbath holy were all laws that were in affect but they were breaking them. This is why God wrote them down.
Is that not also the reason why the covenant in which the law was included became obsolete -- i.e. because of the fault of the people (see Hebrews 8).They were written down because of transgression.
Indeed it does not. For the letters engraved on stones were the ministry that brings death and were fading even during the life of Paul (see 2 Corinthians 3).In other words, they were already breaking them before God wrote them down. But the law on stone does not nullify the promise; the promise was still to come.
Byfaithalone; No problem. There's no rush around here. We're pretty laid back.
If it was added, was in previously in place?
So it was not previously there?
Would it be safe to say that the passover had always existed?
Would it be safe to say that animal sacrifices had always been offered?
We agree that sin exists even in the absence of law. That was true before it was added and it is also true since the Seed has come.
How was "sin" defined for Cain? By the law or by the Spirit?
How was "sin" defined for Joseph? By the law or by the Spirit? Again, we agree that sin exists even in the absence of law.
Is it safe to conclude that every law written down represented distinct instructions that had always been in existence?
Is that not also the reason why the covenant in which the law was included became obsolete -- i.e. because of the fault of the people (see Hebrews 8).
Indeed it does not. For the letters engraved on stones were the ministry that brings death and were fading even during the life of Paul (see 2 Corinthians 3).
According to Galatians 3, what happened when the Seed came?
Is there any Biblical evidence that men were commanded to set aside a sabbath prior to sin?
BFA
Were people held accountable and found guilty of any violation of any moral principle prior to God writing the Law on stone? The answer is yes.
Sacrifice came as a result of violating God's standard.
Holy: Set apart to the service or worship of God; hallowed; sacred; reserved from profane or common use; holy vessels; a holy priesthood. ``Holy rites and solemn feasts.
Sanctified: 1. To make, or declare to be, sacred; to appropriate to sacred uses; to set apart, dedicate, or devote, to the service or worship of God; as, to consecrate a church; to give (one's self) unreservedly, as to the service of God.
2. The act of consecrating, or of setting apart for a sacred purpose; consecration.
When God sanctifies something and calls it holy it means something to those who love God.
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