Florida

[Albion]

what are you smoking?

I don't smoke, but thanks for caring.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Give it a few weeks and you'll see.

time will tell.

 

[Kentonio]

I did not say we were I said if we did we would not have those choices to make. Although I would also think that would take volunteers first BEFORE making those choices.

Covid is a horrible way to die, I don’t think you’ll find many people volunteering to drown to death in their own lungs, even if they were capable of making a decision by the time it’s necessary.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Covid is a horrible way to die, I don’t think you’ll find many people volunteering to drown to death in their own lungs, even if they were capable of making a decision by the time it’s necessary.

It would not just have to be covid could be anything

 

[loveofourlord]

I don't smoke, but thanks for caring.

So then you just blatantly lie, or too lazy to actually not use a 3 month old talking point that wasn't even real then, covid has outpaced flu deaths for multiple years combined now.

 

[Albion]

So then you just blatantly lie...

I beg your pardon! I do not smoke, and it's not a lie.

 

[loveofourlord]

I beg your pardon! I do not smoke, and it's not a lie.

show me the statitics that show more have died from flu then covid, I will wait, the last year we have data for 2018-2019 34k people died from the flu, covid has done 4X's that in half the time. Or don't spread lies.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Covid is a horrible way to die, I don’t think you’ll find many people volunteering to drown to death in their own lungs, even if they were capable of making a decision by the time it’s necessary.

And not just die. It is causing kidney failure, heart failure, liver failure, problems with peripheral circulation, neurological issues and of course, chronic lung problems.

 

[FreeinChrist]

What did the founding fathers think of epidemics:

Opinion | Here's what the Founders actually thought about masks and quarantines

Later, while president, Washington had to cope when the young nation’s then-capital, Philadelphia, was overtaken with yellow fever in 1793. Believing that the illness was contagious (it is actually spread by mosquitoes), residents of America’s then-largest city adopted many of the measures that have become our own new normal: covering their faces in public, avoiding crowds, closing schools and businesses, and staying home

During this time, Washington instructed Secretary of War Henry Knox to, essentially, work remotely.“I think it would not be prudent either for you or the clerks in your office, or the office itself, to be too much exposed to the malignant fever,” Washington wrote. The president had decided to work from home himself, at Mount Vernon, telling a friend that he “could not think of hazarding” his wife and children by staying in Philadelphia.

Leaders on the scene, meanwhile, had no qualms about imposing regulations on the public for their own safety. Philadelphia Mayor Matthew Clarkson tasked prominent physician — and a signer of the Declaration of Independence — Benjamin Rush with compiling a list of public safety measures. Many, including the quarantining of all visitors and goods for two to three weeks, were adopted as new ordinances. The mayor also ordered a sanitation campaign throughout the city and requisitioned an abandoned estate for a makeshift hospital.


​

 

[rjs330]

Yeah. I don’t see us magically resolving together to take on the challenge anymore. The president has pretty much given up on the effort and it’s now every state for themselves as to how they want to deal with it. Some states might do better than others but nationally our response has been a dumpster fire.

What's your evidence anyone has given up? What exactly do you demand he do? And how would that help?

 

[Albion]

Yeah. I don’t see us magically resolving together to take on the challenge anymore. The president has pretty much given up on the effort and it’s now every state for themselves as to how they want to deal with it.

However, most of the Democratic governors told the President that it was their business, not his, and that they were in charge (except that they would like federal money, of course).

 

[rjs330]

So only a 10% death rate? No big deal. Reopen everything!

Where do you get that number from? Did you just make it up? Is that happening anywhere?

 

[rjs330]

What did the founding fathers think of epidemics:

Opinion | Here's what the Founders actually thought about masks and quarantines

Later, while president, Washington had to cope when the young nation’s then-capital, Philadelphia, was overtaken with yellow fever in 1793. Believing that the illness was contagious (it is actually spread by mosquitoes), residents of America’s then-largest city adopted many of the measures that have become our own new normal: covering their faces in public, avoiding crowds, closing schools and businesses, and staying home

During this time, Washington instructed Secretary of War Henry Knox to, essentially, work remotely.“I think it would not be prudent either for you or the clerks in your office, or the office itself, to be too much exposed to the malignant fever,” Washington wrote. The president had decided to work from home himself, at Mount Vernon, telling a friend that he “could not think of hazarding” his wife and children by staying in Philadelphia.

Leaders on the scene, meanwhile, had no qualms about imposing regulations on the public for their own safety. Philadelphia Mayor Matthew Clarkson tasked prominent physician — and a signer of the Declaration of Independence — Benjamin Rush with compiling a list of public safety measures. Many, including the quarantining of all visitors and goods for two to three weeks, were adopted as new ordinances. The mayor also ordered a sanitation campaign throughout the city and requisitioned an abandoned estate for a makeshift hospital.​

Note it was done by the local government. Not a Federal mandate. Exactly like it is today.

 

[Kentonio]

What did the founding fathers think of epidemics:

Opinion | Here's what the Founders actually thought about masks and quarantines

Later, while president, Washington had to cope when the young nation’s then-capital, Philadelphia, was overtaken with yellow fever in 1793. Believing that the illness was contagious (it is actually spread by mosquitoes), residents of America’s then-largest city adopted many of the measures that have become our own new normal: covering their faces in public, avoiding crowds, closing schools and businesses, and staying home

During this time, Washington instructed Secretary of War Henry Knox to, essentially, work remotely.“I think it would not be prudent either for you or the clerks in your office, or the office itself, to be too much exposed to the malignant fever,” Washington wrote. The president had decided to work from home himself, at Mount Vernon, telling a friend that he “could not think of hazarding” his wife and children by staying in Philadelphia.

Leaders on the scene, meanwhile, had no qualms about imposing regulations on the public for their own safety. Philadelphia Mayor Matthew Clarkson tasked prominent physician — and a signer of the Declaration of Independence — Benjamin Rush with compiling a list of public safety measures. Many, including the quarantining of all visitors and goods for two to three weeks, were adopted as new ordinances. The mayor also ordered a sanitation campaign throughout the city and requisitioned an abandoned estate for a makeshift hospital.
​

No surprise really. I’ve long believed the founders would be absolutely flabbergasted by many of the extremes to which people take ‘rights’ these days. There is zero chance in my opinion that they ever intended people to put the exact wording of the constitution ahead of the public health and good. They thought they were laying down the groundwork for a system that would constantly evolve, not carving stone tables to be worshipped.

 

[hedrick]

Where do you get that number from? Did you just make it up? Is that happening anywhere?

Of course not. The best estimate currently seems to be about 0.5%, but that is a percent of an invisible set of infected people. When assessing severity, it’s better to use visible things like sickness, people in hospitals, ICU use, etc. Saying that there are more people invisibly sick than we thought so the death rate is lower doesn’t change anything real.

It is true that at the moment fewer people are dying than in the past. That’s good news if it continues. But dying is only part of the picture. Hospital capacity is still a problem.

Incidentally, deaths are going up in AZ and FL, just not as fast as infections. That’s good, and is probably due to younger average age, not errors in the mortality rate. There will likely be some following infection due to contact between them and older people, but if we’re lucky it won’t be as bad as in the first peak.

if hospital rates were lower maybe we could have different policies for younger people. But with the real situation, that doesn’t seem so attractive.

 

[Albion]

It is true that at the moment fewer people are dying than in the past. That’s good news if it continues. But dying is only part of the picture. Hospital capacity is still a problem.

If so, it would be refreshing if anybody on that side of the issue other than yourself would say what you did.

What we hear instead are horror stories about how so many people are dying terrible deaths from the virus--all because of an uncaring President, you know.

 

[hedrick]

If so, it would be refreshing if anybody on that side of the issue other than yourself would say what you did.

What we hear instead are horror stories about how so many people are dying terrible deaths from the virus--all because of an uncaring President, you know.

Id love to let young adults have their parties and just us old fogies have to be restricted to grocery stores and work. I work for a university. It’s a big economic problem for us to close the dorms and have classes online. Starting in January I’m going to have to do two peoples work, because we can’t replace people. I’d love to let the kids come back, though teaching them could be a challenge. You could imagine that happening. But it doesn’t seem to make sense now.

 

[hedrick]

I've actually wondered if we wouldn't be better off having all college students under 30 come back to the dorms, but not let them out into the community. The problem is that it would pretty much guarantee a large fraction getting sick, and it could overflow health centers and cause permanent damage other than death. And a lot of faculty and support staff are older. (One of the problems in K-12 this fall is going to be whether teachers are willing to come in. If I were a K-12 teacher I'm not sure what I'd do. Fortunately I'm in IT at a university. I normally don't see very many people during the day.)

 

[FreeinChrist]

Note it was done by the local government. Not a Federal mandate. Exactly like it is today.

However the federal government (and the president) led the way. Instead, we have a president who is engaging in fantastical thinking (it will just disappear), making it a political issue so that red state governors are emboldened to ignore science. The failure of the president and FEMA to set a single source PPE supply for states is an example. States were paying much higher prices for everything

It is a disgrace.


This is an interesting article on it:
Can the government legally force you to wear a mask? - Poynter


Yes, the states enforce, but with a lack of federal leadership on the pandemic, states are left to act like individual countries and ignore what is best.

But hey, Florida hit 11,000 new infections today. Lots of elderly Trump supporters there are at risk.

 

[hedrick]

Now the problem is going to be how to have an election in this environment. Lots of room for controversy over the results. My nightmare is that Biden will be elected but Trump will use an excuse to call the election invalid. I hope this is just conspiracy theory.