flood of anti-Mormon sentiment

[MormonFriend]

Good grief, you do try to make something out of nothing don't you? I simply stated that it is rediculous that just because someone does not subscribe to a certain belief, that they would lie about. I stick by that. It is rediculous. Just because one leaves and denies the teachings of a perticular belief does not mean they are going to turn around and lie and make up stories about it. That is stupid to say the least.

Are you saying that this never happens?

 

[MormonFriend]

TW, I am not skylark but from the passage you posted above, it appears that they saw a "vision" not that they recieved secret teaching.

Grace

"Tell the vision to no man" would be instructing them to keep it secret.

 

[Wrigley]

To the ever intrepid Wrigley, be sure not to click this link wouldn't want to learn anything new!

HappyinHisgrace,
The Secret Gospel of Mark has little to do with the CoJCoLDS. It is still being debated in academia. But here is the site I usually go to for updates (none have been posted recently). There are many evidences of esoteric things within the Early Church, this is just one (possible).
http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/Secret/secmark_home.html

Charity, TOm

Before I even click on that link I'm going to make the following speculation. I expect to see alll kinds of qualifiers on the proof. Much like is seen on the farms site.

 

[Wrigley]

I cannot comment due to the sacred secrecy of the vows, washings, annointings, handshakes, and temple garments.

No recipes?

 

[Der Alte]

Good grief, you do try to make something out of nothing don't you? I simply stated that it is rediculous that just because someone does not subscribe to a certain belief, that they would lie about. I stick by that. It is rediculous. Just because one leaves and denies the teachings of a perticular belief does not mean they are going to turn around and lie and make up stories about it. That is stupid to say the least.

Are you saying that this never happens?

There is a huge difference between it happening sometimes and as it has been expressed here over and over again. Virtually everybody who is an exMormon posting on this forum is accused of lying, twisting facts, not knowing or understanding what they are talking about when they mention their experiences in the LDS. Not once has any LDS on this forum ever admitted that something an exMormon said was the truth.

And I think I can safely say the same thing about the exmormons who operate, and those who post their stories on, counter LDS sites. Not once have I ever seen an admission that anything they said was factual.

 

[Kevin Graham]

[Edited by a moderator]

 

[Wrigley]

[Edited by a moderator]

Yet another "victim" of anti-mormon "bigotry"

Wear you badge proudly Kevin.

 

[baker]

It seems that the common denominator in the difference of viewpoint is that you pre assume that this is the work of man. Fair enough! We believe it is the work of God. Yet, can you enter into our belief system via discussion and truly understand (if that is what you really want) ... our position when you carry with you your pre-assumptions?
You knock down each individual precept, one at a time before you get a chance to see how they all fit together. Of course, you do not have to accept what you would see, but you never give yourself a chance to see it!

MF,

What I "pre assume" is that when those members of the lds church say that smething was "restored", "revealed" or "given by word of god", they could provide support.

As I have asked Tom and others, where is the scriptural support for the lds temple wedding/endowment ceremony, and where does Christ tell us to exclude unworthy freinds and family from a wedding ceremony, and why?

Pretty straightforward questions.

What raises concerns for me is the aviodance by lds posters to answer. If you would care to try and answer I would be all ears (or perhaps "eyes" in this venue). If my questions are inappropriate, tell me why.

 

[Kevin Graham]

== What I "pre assume" is that when those members of the lds church say that smething was "restored", "revealed" or "given by word of god", they could provide support.

But you're very particular on the "support" you'll accept. You already said you wanted no "religious" support, which is kinda funny given this is about religion. When it all boils down to it, the greatest "support" the LDS Church has is the witness of the spirit. How ludicrous a concept for a faith to be accepted by faith. Imagine that.

== As I have asked Tom and others, where is the scriptural support for the lds temple wedding/endowment ceremony

There is none. Not explicitly anyway. Is that clear enough?

== and where does Christ tell us to exclude unworthy freinds and family from a wedding ceremony, and why?

Well, the issue is location more than marriage. Now weddings are to be held in the temple, whereas this wasn't always the case. We know that in ancient Judaism, not just "anyone" could enter the temple.

== Pretty straightforward questions.

Pretty straightforward answers.

== What raises concerns for me is the aviodance by lds posters to answer.

Where have I heard this before?

 

[happyinhisgrace]

God won't stop (can't stop) man from exercising his free will, otherwise it is not free will. Yet He did forsee the time when man would corrupt His word, and prepared for it by preserving the witness of another nation. Because of the restoration of all things, man is not hopelessly lost.

I agree, man is not and never has been hopelessly lost, even during the flood 8 people were saved. There has never been a time when man was lost without hope.

However, I don't agree that God "can't" stop man from exersizing his free will. He is God and he can do whatever he pleases, he is not bound to the laws of man.

Grace

 

[Rescued One]

IMO, LDS do not worship their prophets. But, unfortunately, they are willing to twist the word of God to try to make it fit what their prophet teaches.

But here are some quotes by LDS that back up ByGrace's opinion.

Every spirit that confesses that Joseph Smith is a Prophet, that he lived and died a Prophet and that the Book of Mormon is true, is of God, and every spirit that does not is of anti-Christ. - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:287

No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith… every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:289

He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken… yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be. - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god - Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be a god to you in his stead, and the elders to be mouth for me; and if you don't like it you must lump it. - Joseph Smith, History of the Church p319-320

 

[happyinhisgrace]

IMO, LDS do not worship their prophets. But, unfortunately, they are willing to twist the word of God to try to make it fit what their prophet teaches.

But here are some quotes by LDS that back up ByGrace's opinion.

Every spirit that confesses that Joseph Smith is a Prophet, that he lived and died a Prophet and that the Book of Mormon is true, is of God, and every spirit that does not is of anti-Christ. - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:287

No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith… every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:289

He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken… yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be. - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god - Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be a god to you in his stead, and the elders to be mouth for me; and if you don't like it you must lump it. - Joseph Smith, History of the Church p319-320

I think that the LDS put their faith and trust in words of their prophets (at least when it is convient or serves a PR purpose) and sinse so many of the words and teachings of their past prophets are so against what the Bible teaches, in a sense, I do think they worship their prophets rather than the God of the Bible, (even if they don't realize they are doing so).

An example of this would be how when the missionaries tell potential converts to pray to see if the BofM is true and if JS was a true prophet called by God. Even the hymns "Praise to the Man" (speaking about JS) and "We Thank thee oh God for a prophet" seem to show this. I recently read an Ensign article about the birth of Jesus (a Christmas article) and the first part of the Article focused on Joseph Smith and his birthday and all the good he has done for the world in restoring "the true gospel" and then as an after thought, the birth of Christ was mentioned and briefly discussed. I truly don't think LDS believe that they worship their prophets but I think that even though they don't think they do such a thing, in reality, that is exactly what they are doing without even seeing it.

God Bless,
Grace

 

[Rescued One]

Grace, they have definitely downplayed the role of Christ in our salvation. And, if they do not worship their prophets, they come mighty close to it.

 

[SiSSYGAL]

No there is not a Mormon Gestapo that runs around to make sure everyone is doing what they are supposed to.

Hi Theway:
I would like to warn you about the Mormon Gestapo that runs around to make sure everyone is doing what they are supposed to do: Be careful of what you post here on this forum. If you doubt me, then go over to Scripture L and read the posts from the last week there. Some professor was fired from BYU for his post on that private forum. He called Boyd K Packer. Boyd KKK Packer. A problem with a sticky key no doubt.-() Anyway, he's collecting unemployment. While they're in the mood to confess, someone else said he WAS the GA instructor but studied for his lessons from NIV vs KJV simply because the arcane language was difficult for him. When he accidentally brought the NIV to class and read from it as a point of clarification, he was removed from his post. God gives a calling and God takes it away--oh wait--the guy with a German accent takes it away. You may accuse me of lying if you chose--or you can go read for yourself and accuse the original posters of lying--Scripture L is a pro-Mormon site. For you souls who are forced to read about my son at Marine boot camp, here's an update: He's fine. He wasn't able to write for a couple of weeks because of rifle training and lack of stationary. (he got the highest score in his platoon ranking in as expert-he gets some button on his shirt for that) Peace Out.

 

[Wrigley]

No there is not a Mormon Gestapo that runs around to make sure everyone is doing what they are supposed to.

Hi Theway:
I would like to warn you about the Mormon Gestapo that runs around to make sure everyone is doing what they are supposed to do: Be careful of what you post here on this forum. If you doubt me, then go over to Scripture L and read the posts from the last week there. Some professor was fired from BYU for his post on that private forum. He called Boyd K Packer. Boyd KKK Packer. A problem with a sticky key no doubt.-() Anyway, he's collecting unemployment. While they're in the mood to confess, someone else said he WAS the GA instructor but studied for his lessons from NIV vs KJV simply because the arcane language was difficult for him. When he accidentally brought the NIV to class and read from it as a point of clarification, he was removed from his post. God gives a calling and God takes it away--oh wait--the guy with a German accent takes it away. You may accuse me of lying if you chose--or you can go read for yourself and accuse the original posters of lying--Scripture L is a pro-Mormon site. For you souls who are forced to read about my son at Marine boot camp, here's an update: He's fine. He wasn't able to write for a couple of weeks because of rifle training and lack of stationary. (he got the highest score in his platoon ranking in as expert-he gets some button on his shirt for that) Peace Out.

What's the web address for scripture l?

 

[twhite982]

Boyd KKK Packer. .

May I ask what is the point of this?

Are you saying Boyd K. Packer is affiliated with the KKK?

TW

 

[twhite982]

I recently read an Ensign article about the birth of Jesus (a Christmas article) and the first part of the Article focused on Joseph Smith and his birthday and all the good he has done for the world in restoring "the true gospel" and then as an after thought, the birth of Christ was mentioned and briefly discussed.
God Bless,
Grace

What were you doing reading the Ensign?

Would you post that article for all of us to see?

TW

 

[Wrigley]

May I ask what is the point of this?

Are you saying Boyd K. Packer is affiliated with the KKK?

TW

Now be fair.

sissy was quoting what someone else said about boyd. It wouldn't be fair to atribute those to her.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

What were you doing reading the Ensign?

Would you post that article for all of us to see?

TW

What was I doing reading the Ensign? Well, let me explain it with a well known phrase "keep your friends close and your enemies closer".....now, I don't consider the LDS people themselves to be enemies but I do consider the LDS church to be an enemy to the one true God and his truth in the Bible....I know, I know, you want to scream at me for saying that but try to refrain, I am just being honest and you did ask, right? lol

I don't have a scanner so I can't scan it for you but I will see if it is on lds.org so I can cut and paste it.

God Bless,
Grace

 

[happyinhisgrace]

What were you doing reading the Ensign?

Would you post that article for all of us to see?

TW

OK, for some reason I can't get the reply to let me post the article but here is the link so you can read it. The article is called "Joseph Smith restorer of truth".

http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates$fn=default.htm
Grace