flood of anti-Mormon sentiment

[Rescued One]

I'd like someone who is LDS to tell me, just in case, the ex-LDS around here were never told. Or is it a big secret?

 

[Rescued One]

What do LDS teach in 2004? IDK when Grace left Mormonism.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

What do LDS teach in 2004? IDK when Grace left Mormonism.

GodsWord, I am not sure what IDK means but I left Mormonism for Jesus 2 years ago. Two years ago when I left, the LDs church taught that after a person died, if they had not accepted the LDS gospel (or heard of it) in this life, someone could do their baptism and temple work for them on this earth (by proxy) and that person who died would still have a chance "on the other side" to either accept the Mormon baptism and temple work or reject it and if they did accept it, they could still progress to the CK (which is the highest degree (level) of glory in the Mormon heavens.

God Bless,
Grace

 

[Breetai]

I am not sure what IDK means

IDK= I don't know

 

[happyinhisgrace]

IDK= I don't know

Thank you Breetai

God Bless,
Grace

 

[baker]

Doc: Could you please be more specific about the "consequence to "family events" if you do not attend these meetings"?

If you do not attend the TR meeting, you would not be issued your TR card. If you don't have a card, you would be prohibited from witnessing your child's, friend's, or relatives wedding vows within a mormon temple.

Where in any christian scripture do we find the teachings of Christ supporting such an outrageous practice. For all the "family togetherness" the lds purports to be, how do you rationalize in christain spirit, separting loved ones on what should be one of the most joyous days of ones life?

As the lds posters have explained, the "worthiness" requirement is for the one receiving the ordinance. If so, why exclude those, regardless of their faith, at a temple wedding. If I am not receiving the ordinance, how does my presence offend god or impact the ceremony?

Thats why it begs the question:

Is this whole TR interview process really about "worthiness" or is it about "control"?

 

[Rescued One]

GodsWord, I am not sure what IDK means but I left Mormonism for Jesus 2 years ago. Two years ago when I left, the LDs church taught that after a person died, if they had not accepted the LDS gospel (or heard of it) in this life, someone could do their baptism and temple work for them on this earth (by proxy) and that person who died would still have a chance "on the other side" to either accept the Mormon baptism and temple work or reject it and if they did accept it, they could still progress to the CK (which is the highest degree (level) of glory in the Mormon heavens.

God Bless,
Grace

Thanks. There are three degrees of glory within the CK. Those who do not have spouses are angels(servants to higher LDS) of their god foever and ever according to the D & C. So if there is eternal progression in the CK when do these angels advance to the highest degree within the CK? Maybe a LDS can explain.

 

[Rescued One]

If you do not attend the TR meeting, you would not be issued your TR card. If you don't have a card, you would be prohibited from witnessing your child's, friend's, or relatives wedding vows within a mormon temple.

Where in any christian scripture do we find the teachings of Christ supporting such an outrageous practice. For all the "family togetherness" the lds purports to be, how do you rationalize in christain spirit, separting loved ones on what should be one of the most joyous days of ones life?

As the lds posters have explained, the "worthiness" requirement is for the one receiving the ordinance. If so, why exclude those, regardless of their faith, at a temple wedding. If I am not receiving the ordinance, how does my presence offend god or impact the ceremony?

Thats why it begs the question:

Is this whole TR interview process really about "worthiness" or is it about "control"?

Does this mean that the temple wedding is more sacred than baptism into the LDS church?

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Thanks. There are three degrees of glory within the CK. Those who do not have spouses are angels(servants to higher LDS) of their god foever and ever according to the D & C. So if there is eternal progression in the CK when do these angels advance to the highest degree within the CK? Maybe a LDS can explain.

Godsword, I was taught as an lds person that if you had your temple work done, excepted it and the lds gospel and wanted to progress to the highest level in the highest kingdom that God would provide a spouse for you. This is a question that comes to my mind, LDS believe that we are "sent" to the earth to prove ourselves worthy before God of the highest degree of glory (or whatever heaven we end up going to)....now, what about those who die, then accept the lds gospel in the next life, do they just move up the ladder without having to prove themselves like those on earth did? I have been told by LDS, when I was still LDS that these particular people would be tried during the reign of satan being loosed on the earth after the millinium but I don't know for sure if that is what lds now days would call "official" docterine or not.

God Bless,
Grace

 

[baker]

Does this mean that the temple wedding is more sacred than baptism into the LDS church?

Not if you're dead.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

I believe that spike's point would be that a person who have never set foot in an LDS Temple while on this earth still has the opportunity to achieve the highest degree of heaven, in LDS beliefs.

I believe that would have been a point of contention a few pages back.

 

[TOmNossor]

If you do not attend the TR meeting, you would not be issued your TR card. If you don't have a card, you would be prohibited from witnessing your child's, friend's, or relatives wedding vows within a mormon temple.

Where in any christian scripture do we find the teachings of Christ supporting such an outrageous practice. For all the "family togetherness" the lds purports to be, how do you rationalize in christain spirit, separting loved ones on what should be one of the most joyous days of ones life?

As the lds posters have explained, the "worthiness" requirement is for the one receiving the ordinance. If so, why exclude those, regardless of their faith, at a temple wedding. If I am not receiving the ordinance, how does my presence offend god or impact the ceremony?

Thats why it begs the question:

Is this whole TR interview process really about "worthiness" or is it about "control"?

Baker,

The witnesses to a sealing are participating as witnesses.

This is not dissimilar to secular weddings, but the witnesses are most definitely required and part of the ceremony.

Again, I have sympathy for those who feel left out during LDS weddings, but you should recognize that if you are not a member of the CoJCoLDS it most definitely is not a comment on your worth or worthiness.

Charity, TOm

 

[baker]

Again, I have sympathy for those who feel left out during LDS weddings, but you should recognize that if you are not a member of the CoJCoLDS it most definitely is not a comment on your worth or worthiness.

Charity, TOm

Tom,

Then what is it a comment to?

This is a very basic question. Why are non-worthy (as defined by lds standards) people excluded from the ceremony and who judges worthiness?

What would their presence impact. Why would a non lds parent not be allowed to witness their childs vows and commitments?

Is it simply a matter of the benefits of membership?

I am just not aware of any christian doctrines or scriptures that would justify this as being "sacred".

If it has no scriptural requirement, then it must be simply a matter of control.

 

[TOmNossor]

Tom,

Then what is it a comment to?



This is a very basic question. Why are non-worthy (as defined by LDS standards) people excluded from the ceremony and who judges worthiness?

If you are not a member of the CoJCoLDS, you cannot participate in a sealing ceremony.

Would you like for me to perform the marriage ceremony from you daughter and her new husband? I am not a Bishop or sealer and I am not recognized by the any church to be able to perform this ceremony.

I have asked you before which religion you support. I still wonder what the answer is to that. If you will tell me, we can know for sure if your religion recognizes me as one who can participate in a marriage ceremony.

What would their presence impact. Why would a non LDS parent not be allowed to witness their child’s vows and commitments?

Since it is a religious ceremony participants must embrace the religion in which it is a ceremony. No Catholic would allow me to act as the priest in their wedding. I couldn't be a Godparent either. The fact that I could sit at the back of the church just means that I have no religious mandate as this type of participant. A sealing ceremony is different. All the witnesses are required to embrace the faith and live the faith.



I recognize that I might not feel as upset about not being a Godparent for my Catholic relatives as you do about not being a witness for your LDS relatives, but the reasons are the same reasons.

Is it simply a matter of the benefits of membership?

TOm:

Active and faithful membership yes. For you as a non-member there are no qualifying questions so in no sense can you consider exclusion a comment on your worthiness. You may abstain from coffee and alcohol, attend all LDS church functions, read the BOM 1x per weak, ... but if you are not a member you cannot participate in LDS sacred ceremonies.

I am just not aware of any Christian doctrines or scriptures that would justify this as being "sacred".



If it has no scriptural requirement, then it must be simply a matter of control.

TOm:

It is in LDS Christian scriptures (again I notice atheistic wording as if you are outside the body of Christians, do your words betray you).

And since it is a LDS ceremony, it should be governed by LDS scriptures which include more than the Bible.

Also, the Temple is an esoteric, sacred ordinance. There is a good amount of evidence that the EarlyChurch had esoteric rights too, but due to their nature they are not listed openly in the Bible. Would you expect them to be?

If you are familiar with the LDS temple rites, you might read the Secret Gospel of Mark.



Charity, TOm

 

[Rescued One]

Also, the Temple is an esoteric, sacred ordinance. There is a good amount of evidence that the EarlyChurch had esoteric rights too, but due to their nature they are not listed openly in the Bible. Would you expect them to be?

If you are familiar with the LDS temple rites, you might read the Secret Gospel of Mark.

Charity, TOm

Secret Gospel of Mark??? That isn't scripture. The Temple is an esoteric, sacred ordinance??? Why is a wedding more sacred and secret than a baptism? Why is a baptism for a dead person more sacred and secret than an ex-Methodist being baptized into the LDS church?

The church I read about in my Bible didn't have secret marriages performed in temples, nor did they baptize for dead people. Where does this stuff come from?

 

[Rescued One]

Active and faithful membership yes. For you as a non-member there are no qualifying questions so in no sense can you consider exclusion a comment on your worthiness. You may abstain from coffee and alcohol, attend all LDS church functions, read the BOM 1x per weak, ... but if you are not a member you cannot participate in LDS sacred ceremonies.

So watching your daughter's wedding ceremony is forbidden if you aren't a TR carrying Mormon. It must be an embarrassing ceremony if you have to keep it so secret.

 

[TOmNossor]

Secret Gospel of Mark??? That isn't scripture. The Temple is an esoteric, sacred ordinance??? Why is a wedding more sacred and secret than a baptism? Why is a baptism for a dead person more sacred and secret than an ex-Methodist being baptized into the LDS church?

The church I read about in my Bible didn't have secret marriages performed in temples, nor did they baptize for dead people. Where does this stuff come from?

GodsWordisTrue,
If you are not Catholic, your Bible was compiled by an organization that we both agree departed from the pure words of God. Why do you find it so suprising that when the Catholic Church was adding things to the Bible (things you believe are invalid), that they didn't drop some things that were originally part of the witness of Christ and the apostles?

It seems that Mark or someone removed some words from the Gospel of Mark. The truth was maintained for a period, but was ultimately lost (perhaps because it was about sacred esoteric rights).

Charity, TOm

 

[Rescued One]

SAINTS COMMANDED TO MARRY FOR ETERNITY. The Lord has commanded us, as it is recorded in the revelations, that marriage among members of the Church should be performed in his holy house, and not for time only, but for all time and all eternity. Therefore, those who are satisfied to receive a ceremony for time only, uniting them for this life, and are content with that, are ignorant of this fundamental principle of the gospel and its consequences, or they are in rebellion against the commandments of the Lord.

Doctrines of Salvation, Joseph Fielding Smith,

Why are people commanded to marry for eternity? Why are they commanded to marry at all? What difference does it make?

 

[TOmNossor]

So watching your daughter's wedding ceremony is forbidden if you aren't a TR carrying Mormon. It must be an embarrassing ceremony if you have to keep it so secret.

Just as you would not let me officiate in the church ceremony that marries your daughter to her new husband, the non-LDS does not PARTICIPATE in the marriage ceremony that unites two LDS in the Temple.



Charity, TOm

 

[Rescued One]

Just as you would not let me officiate in the church ceremony that marries your daughter to her new husband, the non-LDS does not PARTICIPATE in the marriage ceremony that unites two LDS in the Temple.



Charity, TOm

I'm not talking about officiating. Why can't a father attend his daughter's wedding? The Methodists allow fathers to attend their daughters' weddings. The Catholics and Jews do, too. What is the big scary secret?

It seems that Mark or someone removed some words from the Gospel of Mark. The truth was maintained for a period, but was ultimately lost (perhaps because it was about sacred esoteric rights).

Yea, right. You think Mark or the Catholics have more power than God? My God is all-powerful. He doesn't let atheists, Catholics, humanists, or anyone destroy His word.

If the Bible isn't reliable, it isn't God's word, and man is hopelessly lost.