Flood Geology

[Hans Blaster]

And water into wine

Vintners turn water into wine all the time. They just use grape vines, grape presses, and fermenting vats to do it.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Again, your writings appear evasive, so it is hard to understand what you are saying. It sure seemed to me that you were suggesting that light traveled faster than the current speed of light in order to make it to Earth in 6000 years.

If this is not what you were hinting at with your evasive answer, what were you hinting at?

Again, we know that light got to the earth from stars that are millions of lightyears away. If the Earth is 6000 years old how did that light manage to get to Earth?

I think the poster Dad did used to claim that light travelled faster before... was it the Flood? Something regarding Pelagios (I think) and a split? I'm not sure on th details but I think it was him who used to make that sort of claim.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think the poster Dad did used to claim that light travelled faster before... was it the Flood? Something regarding Pelagios (I think) and a split? I'm not sure on th details but I think it was him who used to make that sort of claim.

Correct.

It was dad who spoke of a "distant state past," where the laws of physics were different prior to "the split in Peleg's time."

Remember Split Rock?

He made this up concerning us:

Two creationists take a Commercial flight

AV1611VET: How do we know that the flight crew knows how to fly this plane?

Flight Attendant: They are trained experts and have been doing this for many years.

Dad: All because they are so-called experts doesnt mean they can ignore Gods Word.

Flight Attendant: What does Gods Word have to do with flying an airplane?

AV1611VET: I use my Boolean Standards to show that flying is against The Inerrant Word of God and The Documentation.

Flight Attendant: Are you talking about The Bible? Where does The Bible say that?

AV1611VET: Thinking themselves to be wise they became fools.

Flight Attendant: What does that have to do with flying?

AV1611VET: Homo sapiens means Wise Man, doesnt it? Since the flight crew are Wise Men they are really fools and God will show them they are fools by crashing the plane.

Flight Attendant: What???

Dad: How do these Ivory Tower so-called experts know they can fly this plane between here and the destination? What if the atmosphere between here and the destination is in a different state?

Flight Attendant: Different State?? What do you mean??

Dad: A different state. Like it was before The Split.

Flight Attendant: What Split?

Dad: During the time of Peleg. To think differently, is anti-Bible hogwash and a fantasy!

Flight Attendant: What are you talking about?

Dad: You cannot prove that the space-time state between here and there is not different can you?

Flight Attendant: No, but we have never had any problem flying this route before..

Dad: Ha! You just ASSUME there is no difference now, because you assume the past is the key to the present. That is an Anti-God Lie, and thinking only within the box.. I refuse to accept it!!!

Flight Attendant Please, both of you take your seats!

AV1611VET: You just cant wait to ridicule me, even though I accept 95% of your science!

Dad: I just discovered that human flight is impossible! Amazing!!

Flight Attendant: Please, take your seats so we can take off! I promise it is safe!

AV1611VET: Oh yeah.. just like Thalidomide was a Wonder Drug before it was Plutoed!

Flight Attendant: Thalidomide?

AV1611VET: Sure, Thaldomide proves that your science changes with the flavor of the week!

Dad: Prove with your so called science that the state between here and there is the same! You cant!!!! Human flight is an anti-Bible lie! Amazing!

Flight Attendant: Get off this plane!!!

 

[doubtingmerle]

And no raging storm?

Yes, of course, I can walk on a frozen lake in a blizzard. Can't you?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, of course, I can walk on a frozen lake in a blizzard. Can't you?

I'm sure you can do a lot of stuff.

Except understand.

 

[dlamberth]

Then test it yourself, if you're so scientifically-minded.

Just alert your next-of-kin you won't be home tonight, because you are going to employ the scientific method to a Bible verse.

Some people who talk big science get put in their place at times, don't they?

I don't see how any of that relates to God walking on water...during a storm? It would be no big deal to God.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Correct.

It was dad who spoke of a "distant state past," where the laws of physics were different prior to "the split in Peleg's time."

Remember Split Rock?

He made this up concerning us:

Two creationists take a Commercial flight

AV1611VET: How do we know that the flight crew knows how to fly this plane?

Flight Attendant: They are trained experts and have been doing this for many years.

Dad: All because they are so-called experts doesnt mean they can ignore Gods Word.

Flight Attendant: What does Gods Word have to do with flying an airplane?

AV1611VET: I use my Boolean Standards to show that flying is against The Inerrant Word of God and The Documentation.

Flight Attendant: Are you talking about The Bible? Where does The Bible say that?

AV1611VET: Thinking themselves to be wise they became fools.

Flight Attendant: What does that have to do with flying?

AV1611VET: Homo sapiens means Wise Man, doesnt it? Since the flight crew are Wise Men they are really fools and God will show them they are fools by crashing the plane.

Flight Attendant: What???

Dad: How do these Ivory Tower so-called experts know they can fly this plane between here and the destination? What if the atmosphere between here and the destination is in a different state?

Flight Attendant: Different State?? What do you mean??

Dad: A different state. Like it was before The Split.

Flight Attendant: What Split?

Dad: During the time of Peleg. To think differently, is anti-Bible hogwash and a fantasy!

Flight Attendant: What are you talking about?

Dad: You cannot prove that the space-time state between here and there is not different can you?

Flight Attendant: No, but we have never had any problem flying this route before..

Dad: Ha! You just ASSUME there is no difference now, because you assume the past is the key to the present. That is an Anti-God Lie, and thinking only within the box.. I refuse to accept it!!!

Flight Attendant Please, both of you take your seats!

AV1611VET: You just cant wait to ridicule me, even though I accept 95% of your science!

Dad: I just discovered that human flight is impossible! Amazing!!

Flight Attendant: Please, take your seats so we can take off! I promise it is safe!

AV1611VET: Oh yeah.. just like Thalidomide was a Wonder Drug before it was Plutoed!

Flight Attendant: Thalidomide?

AV1611VET: Sure, Thaldomide proves that your science changes with the flavor of the week!

Dad: Prove with your so called science that the state between here and there is the same! You cant!!!! Human flight is an anti-Bible lie! Amazing!

Flight Attendant: Get off this plane!!!

I was off by four letters!

 

[Psalm 27]

Vintners turn water into wine all the time. They just use grape vines, grape presses, and fermenting vats to do it.

science tells us that it can take anything up to ten months to do.
How long did Jesus take? (John 2: 6-9)

 

[Hans Blaster]

science tells us that it can take anything up to ten months to do.
How long did Jesus take? (John 2: 6-9)

Four verses in a book about a guy who is claimed to be god doesn't really seem like much in the way of evidence.

Aside: Is this thread still about floods, geology, and the nexus between?

 

[Astrid]

Four verses in a book about a guy who is claimed to be god doesn't really seem like much in the way of evidence.

Aside: Is this thread still about floods, geology, and the nexus between?

It would be if irrelevance and derail attempts were ignored

 

[Astrophile]

It would be if irrelevance and derail attempts were ignored

So far nobody has tried to refute Doubting Merle's opening post, the one that demonstrates that flood geology cannot explain the observed successions of rocks and fossils. This fact appears to confirm Merle's assertion that creationists have effectively abandoned flood geology.

 

[AV1611VET]

So far nobody has tried to refute Doubting Merle's opening post, the one that demonstrates that flood geology cannot explain the observed successions of rocks and fossils. This fact appears to confirm Merle's assertion that creationists have effectively abandoned flood geology.

God cleaned up the mess.

And He does things:

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

So if He put trilobites at the bottom and then sprinkled dinosaur bones over them, that's His prerogative.

In short, He didn't make a garden salad, He made an atomic cake.

 

[dlamberth]

God cleaned up the mess.

And He does things:

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

So if He put trilobites at the bottom and then sprinkled dinosaur bones over them, that's His prerogative.

In short, He didn't make a garden salad, He made an atomic cake.

If you don't mind, I have a follow up question related to our dinosaur discussion from last night.

I'm wondering the time line for when God cleaned up the mess after the Flood and the die out of the dinosaurs. Here it's sounding like God did the clean up after the demise of the dinosaurs, which was guessed as about 100 years after the Flood. And than after that God spread some dinosaur bones about in nice layers? Do I have that right?

 

[AV1611VET]

If you don't mind, I have a follow up question related to our dinosaur discussion from last night.

I'm wondering the time line for when God cleaned up the mess after the Flood and the die out of the dinosaurs. Here it's sounding like God did the clean up after the demise of the dinosaurs, which was guessed as about 100 years after the Flood. And than after that God spread some dinosaur bones about in nice layers? Do I have that right?

Let's use T Rex as an example.

It's time for the Flood.

Mr & Mrs T Rex board the Ark.

The Flood comes and goes.

God cleans up the mess, line upon line.

The door to the Ark is opened and Mr & Mrs Rex disembark.

They go their way, have kids, flourish for awhile, then go extinct after a period of time.

 

[dlamberth]

Let's use T Rex as an example.

It's time for the Flood.

Mr & Mrs T Rex board the Ark.

The Flood comes and goes.

God cleans up the mess, line upon line.

The door to the Ark is opened and Mr & Mrs Rex disembark.

They go their way, have kids, flourish for awhile, then go extinct after a period of time.

Something there doesn't look right to me. Are you suggesting that God spread the Rex bones about 100 years of so "after" He cleaned up His mess?

 

[Diamond72]

But with all due respect sir, you are no Carl Sagan.

My wife is a Sagan. But when I tested my son he was only 3% middle Eastern blood. Still, he is pretty smart. Neil Degrasse Tyson has taken over for Sagan and he is doing very well in educating people.

 

[doubtingmerle]

And even if they [wormholes] were mathematically impossible, they would still exist if God so willed them to.
...

Can scientists spot an angel, if one showed up at one of their parties?

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Wormholes. Billions of wormholes. Billions and billion of wormholes. That's it?

God needed to get the light from a supernova to travel 186,000 light years to earth in 6000 years. How did he do it?

"No problem! Big wormhole. "

"And that galaxy over there?"

"More wormholes."

"And the billion galaxies over there?"

"Billions of wormholes"

"If there are billions of wormholes everywhere, why does space look so, uh, non-wormholey?

"Simple. Angels arranged all the wormholes so it looks like space is continuous"

"Ridiculous. Anyway, let's get back to geology. What about that 12,000 foot high supergroup of Precambrian rock at the bottom of the Grand Canyon, that shows obvious signs of a long geologic history that tilted those layers, and then eroded the top flat before any of the "flood layers" got deposited on top. Wormholes?"

"Nah, a billion angels can easily lift, tilt and sand all that rock."

"And the Tapeats Sandstone layer that sits above that supergroup, which sure looks like the remains of a long abandoned beach."

"Angels. Angels can move sand around. Next question"

"What about the the Bright Angel Shale layer above that, which sure looks like compacted clay deposited in a different environment over millions of years. "

"Angels. Very smart angels. Why do you think they call it the Bright Angel Shale?"

"Oh, uh, okay then. And further up there are many other distinct layers, each with distinct fossils."

"Angels. Angels. Angels. Its angels all the way up."

"None of this makes any sense. What can possibly be the reason for arranging all these things to look so much like the Earth is millions of years old? Surely a God behind this would know it was deceptive. Surely a loving God would know that all this evidence would make many of us abandon a belief in young Earth creation, and eventually abandon belief in the Christian God. If the angels could have arranged things in any order God directed, why did they not arrange things so that Doubtingmerle would still believe in creation? If they had done it right, I would still be on their team. If whoever was behind this can deliberately make a young Earth look old, why would I trust anything I see, or anything he says?"

"God wrote a book that says you can trust him"

"Well, I see no evidence that he wrote that book (Is the Bible Inspired? - ) but suppose he did? How do you know that there are not a billion angels intercepting the light coming from the words on that page, and scrambling the image so completely different words fall on your retina?"

"Angels are trustworthy"

"But maybe the angels simply scrambled the Bible so it says they are trustworthy. Maybe the Bible says don't believe anything those lying angels say. Maybe the same deceptive angels that arranged all the fossils in layers to match the expectations of evolution (completely fooling Doubtingmerle) rearranged all the letters in the Bible to tell you something completely different from what God originally wrote. Deceptive hosts that arranged all those fossils could have rearranged all those letters in your book."

"That would take billions of deceptive angels"

"That is the world you just described to me--a deceptive system with deceptive tools elaborately fooling me. Such a system could have deceptively rearranged everything you read in the Bible. Such a system could be fooling you. Such a system could invalidate every scientific experiment that was ever done. Such a system would make it completely impossible to tell when the angels and wormholes were fooling us. We would know nothing. But sorry, the evidence all fits together too perfectly. The Earth is knowable. Science works. And it tells me the Earth is old. "

 

[AV1611VET]

Something there doesn't look right to me.

?

Are you suggesting that God spread the Rex bones about 100 years of so "after" He cleaned up His mess?

Not at all.

 

[AV1611VET]

"Angels. Very smart angels. Why do you think they call it the Bright Angel Shale?"

QV please: POST 191

 

[dlamberth]

?

Not at all.

OK. So God layered the dinosaur bones upon cleanup right after the Flood. He seems to have layered them to make it appear that is was way older than 65million years ago that they died. Is that correct? And during the clean up I can't help but wonder about the other animals who were layered in strata above the dinosaur to make them appear far younger in time. Do you have any insight on that timeline?