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Fleeing to Mars not of God

Larniavc

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Telling the truth, and then explaining why it is true is actually a good thing. For example in pointing out that the prophesy only fits Jesus and could never fit anyone else. If you claim it could, then show us! Name a few men that were God that got here coming being born to a virgin?
  • Perseus: Born to Danae, who was visited by Zeus in the form of a shower of gold.

  • Hercules: While not a virgin birth, his mother was impregnated by Zeus in the form of a swan.

  • Alexander the Great: Some accounts claim his mother was visited by Zeus in the form of a snake or lightning.

  • Ion: A Greek hero who was said to be the son of Apollo.
  • Horus: Said to be conceived by the goddess Isis, who was often depicted as a virgin.
  • Qi: The mythical ancestor of the Zhou dynasty, born to Jiang Yuan after she stepped in the giant footprint of Shangdi, a supreme deity.

  • Romulus and Remus: The founders of Rome, born to the virgin Rhea Silvia.
  • Krishna: The Hindu god, born to Devaka, a virgin.
  • Attis: A Phrygo-Roman god, said to be born to Nana, a virgin.
 
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truthpls

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  • Perseus: Born to Danae, who was visited by Zeus in the form of a shower of gold.

  • Hercules: While not a virgin birth, his mother was impregnated by Zeus in the form of a swan.

  • Alexander the Great: Some accounts claim his mother was visited by Zeus in the form of a snake or lightning.

  • Ion: A Greek hero who was said to be the son of Apollo.
  • Horus: Said to be conceived by the goddess Isis, who was often depicted as a virgin.
  • Qi: The mythical ancestor of the Zhou dynasty, born to Jiang Yuan after she stepped in the giant footprint of Shangdi, a supreme deity.
  • Romulus and Remus: The founders of Rome, born to the virgin Rhea Silvia.
  • Krishna: The Hindu god, born to Devaka, a virgin.
  • Attis: A Phrygo-Roman god, said to be born to Nana, a virgin.
None of that addressed the amazing prophesy.
 
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ViaCrucis

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All he did was post a verse. Do you disagree with it?

It was a false accusation, and thus a bearing of false witness.

"Don't beat your wife" isn't wrong, but it is wrong to falsely accuse someone of beating their spouse.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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  • Perseus: Born to Danae, who was visited by Zeus in the form of a shower of gold.

  • Hercules: While not a virgin birth, his mother was impregnated by Zeus in the form of a swan.

  • Alexander the Great: Some accounts claim his mother was visited by Zeus in the form of a snake or lightning.

  • Ion: A Greek hero who was said to be the son of Apollo.
  • Horus: Said to be conceived by the goddess Isis, who was often depicted as a virgin.
  • Qi: The mythical ancestor of the Zhou dynasty, born to Jiang Yuan after she stepped in the giant footprint of Shangdi, a supreme deity.

  • Romulus and Remus: The founders of Rome, born to the virgin Rhea Silvia.
  • Krishna: The Hindu god, born to Devaka, a virgin.
  • Attis: A Phrygo-Roman god, said to be born to Nana, a virgin.

The following is not intended as an apologetic. But merely a critique based on my own knowledge and study of these things.

Firstly: A miraculous, supernatural, or otherwise birth surrounded by profound, mystical, or divine circumstances is not a "virgin birth". If a god impregnates a mortal woman, by definition she isn't a virgin.

Secondly:

- Isis wasn't a virgin, Horus was the son of Osiris, Isis conceived Horus when she had intercourse with the reassembled body of Osiris after he had been slain by his brother Set and his body parts were scattered all over the Nile. Isis used a magical phallus and the reassembled body of Osiris, had sex with Osiris, became pregnant with Horus, and then Osiris was reborn as the lord of the underworld.

- Rhea Silvia was a vestal virgin who gave birth to Romulus and Remus... after becoming pregnant by Mars, the god of war.

- Devaki (Devaka was Devaki's father) wasn't a virgin, she was the wife of Vasudeva, who fathered Krishna.

- Attis was the result of an androgynous daemon called Agdistis who was forced to castrate themselves, when his testicles fell onto the ground, an almond tree grew, a water nymph named Nana found the almond tree, and implanted an almond from the tree within herself. This resulted in Attis being conceived in her, after Attis was born he was abandoned and raised by a he-goat.

The story of Attis is the closest one to a "virgin" birth, though let's be clear that we're talking about testicles, almonds, and impregnation, so we can probably classify this one as subjective and debateable.

The only reason I'm responding is because while it is perfectly valid to point out that lots of mythologies, stories, and religions have fanciful, miraculous, or extraordinary accounts of the births of gods, heroes, or various figures. I have constantly seen claims made that "lots of stories involve virgin births" that have their origins in the pseudo-historical theory of Christomythicism and lack any academic merit. Most of this goes back to 19th century quack theories, such as what's found in works like the Golden Bough. This stuff is to historical and religious studies what Phrenology and Flat Earth is to science. It's quackery.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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truthpls

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It was a false accusation, and thus a bearing of false witness.

"Don't beat your wife" isn't wrong, but it is wrong to falsely accuse someone of beating their spouse.

-CryptoLutheran
Actually is was correct for some people who put the heavens or science first and foremost. I guess that makes the claim he was bearing false witness false and your claim is bearing false witness.
 
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Larniavc

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None of those had witnesses such as the hundreds in the bible. They aren't worth the toilet parchment they were scratched on
The virgin birth was witnessed by hundreds?
 
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Larniavc

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None of those had witnesses such as the hundreds in the bible. They aren't worth the toilet parchment they were scratched on
Real talk: how do you know Jesus wasn’t just a human parthogenetic chimera?
 
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truthpls

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The virgin birth was witnessed by hundreds?
The child that came out was. He went on to prove He was God by healing probably tens or hundreds of thousands, feeding tens of thousands from a few crumbs, walking on water, making scores of gallons of wine from water, knowing everyone's thoughts and life details and hearts, being teleport ed away from areas to other areas, walking through walls, commanding fish and other animals to do God bidding, making soldiers coming to arrest Him fall back and down and fear Him, predicting how the great temple would be totally destroyed as well as His Own death and the time He would stay dead, and rising from the dead, appearing to yes, hundreds of witnesses - to name some things. He proceeded to fly up into the clouds to heaven where He empowered the apostles to raise the dead, heal people, be teleported to other places (Philip), appear from heaven and chat (Paul) and sent His spirit that empowered people to have no fear, talk in all languages to crowds using just their own normal speech, have a jail busted up, with an earthquake freeing Peter, and helped untold billions of people since with His pretense in their lives.
 
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Hans Blaster

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The child that came out was. He went on to prove He was God by healing probably tens or hundreds of thousands, feeding tens of thousands from a few crumbs, walking on water, making scores of gallons of wine from water, knowing everyone's thoughts and life details and hearts, being teleport ed away from areas to other areas, walking through walls, commanding fish and other animals to do God bidding, making soldiers coming to arrest Him fall back and down and fear Him, predicting how the great temple would be totally destroyed as well as His Own death and the time He would stay dead, and rising from the dead, appearing to yes, hundreds of witnesses - to name some things. He proceeded to fly up into the clouds to heaven where He empowered the apostles to raise the dead, heal people, be teleported to other places (Philip), appear from heaven and chat (Paul) and sent His spirit that empowered people to have no fear, talk in all languages to crowds using just their own normal speech, have a jail busted up, with an earthquake freeing Peter, and helped untold billions of people since with His pretense in their lives.
Even if all of that is true, how does it demonstrate his momma didn't have sex?
 
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truthpls

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Even if all of that is true, how does it demonstrate his momma didn't have sex?
How would you suggest? Or do you feel you have no need to support slandering the word of Joseph, Mary and God? Have you some reason to claim the apostles who spoke and even lived with Mary were liars? Do you question that they had to flee to Egypt? (as the prophesy said, He came 'out of Egypt) Do you have reason to claim there was no star that wise men followed to the manger motel? Do you have reason to question the life and miracles of Jesus, that confirmed this? No. You have nothing but doubts with no basis in fact that impinge the words of some of the most holy people in history. Men do not get to rewrite history just because they have some beef with a crooked religious church or something.
 
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truthpls

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If a god impregnates a mortal woman, by definition she isn't a virgin.
The definition is

1. a person who has never had sex

Mary never had sex or been with a man. We do not know the details of how God made Her pregnant. You seem to be imagining that it was a sexual thing with God? Ha
 
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ViaCrucis

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The definition is

1. a person who has never had sex

Mary never had sex or been with a man. We do not know the details of how God made Her pregnant. You seem to be imagining that it was a sexual thing with God? Ha

I believe in the Virgin Birth, so I don't know why you are accusing me of believing that it was a sexual thing. I was arguing that the stories of Krishna, Horus, etc aren't virgin births. Because the mothers weren't virgins. Did you even read my post?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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The Mary cannot have been a virgin?

If God impregnated her, then no she wouldn't have been a virgin. As a Christian I believe that she, as a virgin, conceived and gave birth to Christ.

The point of my post was to correct your misunderstanding about the various myths and stories. They aren't virgin births. The closest, in the examples you provided, is Attis which involved a water nymph implanting the gonad (in the form of an almond) into herself.

All I'm asking you, at this point, is to accept this information. As I said, this the idea that there were all sorts of gods being born of virgins is a quack position, it's like saying that the earth is flat.

You can simply modify your position by saying that Christians, like lots of religions, believe in a supernatural birth for their most important figure, and in the case of Christianity it is that a virgin gave birth. But claiming that virgin births were a common thing, and then provide examples of non-virgins giving birth; or being in error about details about the myths and stories of e.g. Krishna, Horus, etc is not a position in agreement with the truth. The truth, in this case, being the plain facts as recognized by the consensus of experts who study these things from across multiple disciplines.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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