flaws

[Estrid]

At the level of chemistry & physics it's just a complex redox reaction sequence that extends the approach to thermal equilibrium by using low entropy energy sources.

At the cognitive level of agency, purposes, and goals (teleological), its function is to persist, which it accomplishes by evolution (via reproduction with heritable variation).

Isnt there at least one utterly mysterious
life force reaction?

 

[AV1611VET]

Isnt there at least one utterly mysterious
life force reaction?

Yup.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

 

[Ophiolite]

People change. Some here were not even born when this was posted.
So they missed the discussion.

And that is relevant exactly how?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Isnt there at least one utterly mysterious
life force reaction?

Not to my knowledge. Vitalism is no longer part of the biological sciences. That's not to say that every aspect of the chemistry of life is understood, just that there is no indication of anything mysterious or inexplicable.

 

[dlamberth]

Isnt there at least one utterly mysterious
life force reaction?

Personally I'd put consciousness into that realm.

 

[Estrid]

Personally I'd put consciousness into that realm.

Well, i dont think " utterly mysterious"
or ftm, that "life force" applies, unless moss and
bacteria are self aware, which they do
better than we, while to all appearance totally
unaware.

 

[dlamberth]

Well, i dont think " utterly mysterious"
or ftm, that "life force" applies, unless moss and
bacteria are self aware, which they do
better than we, while to all appearance totally
unaware.

Does consciousness implies self aware?
I don't think it necessarily does.
But also there is the idea that consciousness is intrinsic within that "life force".
I'm even agreeing with the likes of Teilhard de Chardin who said
that what's evolving in the cosmos is "consciousness".
For example takes Humans where consciousness has actually
evolved into self awareness.
And that, to me anyway, seems like some very mysterious stuff going
within that life force.

 

[Estrid]

Does consciousness implies self aware?
I don't think it necessarily does.
But also there is the idea that consciousness is intrinsic within that "life force".
I'm even agreeing with the likes of Teilhard de Chardin who said
that what's evolving in the cosmos is "consciousness".
For example takes Humans where consciousness has actually
evolved into self awareness.
And that, to me anyway, seems like some very mysterious stuff going
within that life force.

Hmm. Not that i would agree with
much of that but its not really about
what I was saying.

We are conscious, but I hold that
moss and bacteria are not.
Are you suggesting they are?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Hmm. Not that i would agree with
much of that but its not really about
what I was saying.

We are conscious, but I hold that
moss and bacteria are not.
Are you suggesting they are?

It might be worth defining or describing what is meant by 'conscious' in this context...

 

[Estrid]

It might be worth defining or describing what is meant by 'conscious' in this context...

Im pretty sure we know examples of what it is not

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Im pretty sure we know examples of what it is not

Oh, I know... but I've had arguments discussions with members of this forum who gratuitously equivocated 'conscious' and 'aware' as it suited them. For example, "Microbes respond to the environment which means they're aware of it, which implies some level of consciousness - but are they self-aware?" It's hard to find a better response to this kind of thing than

 

[Hans Blaster]

Isnt there at least one utterly mysterious
life force reaction?

Electromagnetism?

It's not all *that* mysterious.

 

[Estrid]

Electromagnetism?

It's not all *that* mysterious.

It certainly can be identified as existing,
and numbers can be applied.

 

[AV1611VET]

It certainly can be identified as existing,
and numbers can be applied.

Of the four forces in the universe, I think they have now combined the electromagnetic force with the weak nuclear force into what they call the electroweak force.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Of the four forces in the universe, I think they have now combined the electromagnetic force with the weak nuclear force into what they call the electroweak force.

At higher energies of interactions, none of which are good for your existence. At the energies of human bodies (and the other animals, etc.) the weak force has no impact. The strong nuclear force just keeps our atomic nuclei bound and gravity just keeps everything stuck to the Earth.

Functionally, life is just applied electromagnetism.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

At the energies of human bodies (and the other animals, etc.) the weak force has no impact.

Well, it does mediate radioactive decay, so it's relevant to those who've had X-rays or suffered radiation poisoning - and radioactive dating and isotope tracking is useful...

Functionally, life is just applied electromagnetism.

Yup.

 

[Estrid]

Well, it does mediate radioactive decay, so it's relevant to those who've had X-rays or suffered radiation poisoning - and radioactive dating and isotope tracking is useful...

Yup.

You you oxygen - reductionist!

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You you oxygen - reductionist!

Guilty, your honour.

It's a fair cop, but society is to blame.[Monty Python (2'34")]

 

[Estrid]

Guilty, your honour.

It's a fair cop, but society is to blame.[Monty Python (2'34")]

Oxidation

Why would i say oxyhen

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Oxidation

Why would i say oxyhen

Determinism.