Flat or round earth -The final experiment.

[trophy33]

Not so, surely. For a start (no pun intended), the OT begins by describing a time before the Jews existed as a nation. "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" doesn't apply only to Jews. The New Testament refers back to the Old on numerous occasions with its prophecies, types and shadows of the Lord Jesus Christ, and He did not come only to save Jews.

The whole OT is Jewish literature. Including creation stories or patriarchs narratives. And as such was meant to be for Jews, not for the world.

Yes, Christianity is global, but it had to be revealed to the Jewish Christians, first. They had no idea and were quite surprised. This shift from Jerusalem to Rome is recorded in the book of Acts.

 

[David Lamb]

The OT is Jewish literature. Including creation stories. And as such was meant to be for Jews.

There I disagree with you. The OT is part of God's inspired revelation of Himself to mankind. Paul wrote to Timothy:

“All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,” (2Ti 3:16 NKJV)

Not "All Scripture is Jewish literature." If that were so, then what are we to make of what Jesus did with the two on the road to Emmaus:

“And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.” (Lu 24:27 NKJV)

That would make no sense if the OT were simply Jewish literature.

 

[trophy33]

There I disagree with you. The OT is part of God's inspired revelation of Himself to mankind. Paul wrote to Timothy:

“All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,” (2Ti 3:16 NKJV)

Not "All Scripture is Jewish literature." If that were so, then what are we to make of what Jesus did with the two on the road to Emmaus:

“And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.” (Lu 24:27 NKJV)

That would make no sense if the OT were simply Jewish literature.

I am talking about historical facts, not about dogmas and belief systems. The OT was not meant to be for the world and forever.

If you acted according to it, you would be put to prison, today. And it clashes with Christianity in many points.

There were prophecy about Christ in there and Christ used it that way. Such usage is correct. Its not correct to take Genesis and use it against scientific facts, though.

 

[David Lamb]

I am talking about historical facts, not about dogmas and belief systems. The OT was not meant to be for the world and forever.

If you acted according to it, you would be put to prison, today. And it clashes with Christianity in many points.

Certainly in some countries Christians are put into prison for believing the bible to be inspired by God. Not yet here in the UK. You seem surprised that here on what is called "Christian Forums" anybody would dare to believe the bible to be God's Word.

 

[trophy33]

Certainly in some countries Christians are put into prison for believing the bible to be inspired by God. Not yet here in the UK. You seem surprised that here on what is called "Christian Forums" anybody would dare to believe the bible to be God's Word.

Read my post again, to understand it properly. You can believe whatever you want, but if you acted according to the OT today, you would be put to prison, because its against our laws. For example, do not try to stone adulterers to death. And it clashes with Christianity in many points. Its simply not for us today.

The proper usage of the OT, as you even mentioned yourself, is the Christological usage. Nothing else. Even the OT morals are not Christian morals and therefore not for us today (for example "an eye for an eye").

 

[Strong in Him]

Well as a clergyman I would have expected you to believe Genesis 1.

Who says he doesn't? That's very judgmental.

 

[Apple Sky]

Who says he doesn't? That's very judgmental.

He can speak for himself I presume ?

 

[Strong in Him]

He can speak for himself I presume ?

He has already said that he is ignoring you/leaving the thread because of your unchristian habit of slandering others.
And you obviously saw that post because you quoted from it.

 

[d taylor]

At any rate @Apple Sky I’m afraid I’m going to have to cut you off - until you show signs of metanoia, of repentance, or of making a good faith effort to, as you claimed to seek help for in another video, not being addicted, your own words, not mine, to conspiracy theories, I am not going to provide you with material to react against in opposition to, since your claims have been entirely debunked, you don’t seem to care, and I think continuing to engage with you at present, until you show signs of metanoia, is not in your best interest, and would represent a failure of pastoral care on my part.

Again, I don’t care what shape you think the world is, but it is the potential of slander on a truly massive scale that is a danger to your soul, and as a Christian clergyman, it would be spiritual malpractice for me to continue to fuel your fire by providing more arguments for you to react to. And I would encourage my friends @prodromos @Strong in Him @trophy33 and others to disengage from you, until you at least repent from pursuing a course where you could be potentially falsely accusing millions of people of participating in a Satanic conspiracy theory, which is a tragedy. And to the end of helping you not do that, I will even assist you in developing models for a flat and stationary Earth that do not involve accusing anyone of lying.

The bottom line is that I do love you and care about you and would be happy to discuss other things with you, other than the geometry of the Earth and conspiracy theories. God bless you. +

-
​

Baloney, the only danger a person puts themselves in concerning the soul and eternity. Is whether they have believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

 

[Strong in Him]

Baloney, the only danger a person puts themselves in concerning the soul and eternity. Is whether they have believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life.​

But continued lying - when you have been told you are lying, and refusal to repent, is not good.

 

[d taylor]

But continued lying - when you have been told you are lying, and refusal to repent, is not good.

-
​

If you are saying Apple Sky is lying because she says the earth is flat and stationary. Then that is your belief based on that you believe what science states is true. Do you also believe in evolution, if so then moot point. But if not then and believe humanity came form God's creation of Adam and Eve, then are you not saying that science is lying when they state, humanity came from the process evolution.

 

[Strong in Him]

-
​

If you are saying Apple Sky is lying because she says the earth is flat and stationary.

I'm not. I don't agree with that belief, but she is entitled to hold it if she likes.
I, and others, are talking about her repeated statements that NASA are liars and even evil.
She has even been told that people who work at NASA, some of the astronauts etc. are/were born-again Christians. Her response; "more like deluded freemasons."

Unless she has contacted NASA to ask about the beliefs of all the employees, and has statements which say that they have deliberately lied about the moon landings, such a response, and attitude, is libellous and unchristian. I shouldn't think any of them will ever see these forums, but it is still wrong.
Disagree with their work, their findings or their methods, by all means. Challenge their data (if you can). Or simply say , "whatever NASA think they have discovered it will not change my belief in a flat earth." But it is unchristian to accuse them of lying without evidence.

 

[The Liturgist]

-
​

Baloney, the only danger a person puts themselves in concerning the soul and eternity. Is whether they have believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

I am not pronouncing on what her eschatological status is - I have no way of knowing if someone will be saved or not, or whether to be more precise their faith is a living faith. What I am saying is that it is morally wrong and contrary to Christian values to falsely accuse millions of people of lying, and I am not going to do anything to encourage someone to do that.

Christ said “Judge not, lest ye not be judged”, and that is the basis for my genuine pastoral concern for adherents of Flat Earth.

 

[The Liturgist]

-
​

If you are saying Apple Sky is lying because she says the earth is flat and stationary. Then that is your belief based on that you believe what science states is true. Do you also believe in evolution, if so then moot point. But if not then and believe humanity came form God's creation of Adam and Eve, then are you not saying that science is lying when they state, humanity came from the process evolution.

My concern is based on the accusations made by herself and other flat Earthers that millions of people at NASA, the aerospace industry and so on are making intentionally dishonest statements and engaging in a Satanic conspiracy, which as I said is unecessary for Flat Earth belief, and I have furthermore offered to assist Apple Sky in formulating expressions of Flat Earth belief that do not nave the side effect of accusing anyone of lying.

 

[The Liturgist]

Well as a clergyman I would have expected you to believe Genesis 1.

I do believe Genesis 1, indeed, I quoted from it in our discussion.

 

[Apple Sky]

My concern is based on the accusations made by herself and other flat Earthers that millions of people at NASA, the aerospace industry and so on are making intentionally dishonest statements and engaging in a Satanic conspiracy,

I only accused the leaders of being deceptive & lying which they do, I did not accuse millions. as for satanic activity, well that remains to be seen.
I'm so sorry if I offended you, I didn't mean to, so please forgive me.

Blessings

 

[Apple Sky]

I do believe Genesis 1, indeed, I quoted from it in our discussion.

I have taken on board what you said in my addiction thread. Thank you.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Genesis 1.

Your statement was, "but the earth together with the moon orbiting the sun is an all out lie,"
Genesis 1 does not address their movements.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - King James Version

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Jipsah]

Issac Newton invented gravity

Bcaue before then everyone just floated around like soap bubbles.

in the late summer of 1666 (odd date), & then it was only a theory.

You still don't understand what a theory is.

Gravity is called a theory rather than a fact.

If you don't believe it's a fact, I suggest that you not you test that idea on anything too high

In summary; gravity is the phenomenon. A theory of gravity is a mathematical formulation that can be used to describe the phenomenon. Theories are useful because they can be used to make predictions.

And it's still the stuff that God used to stick His universe together.

 

[Jipsah]

Well as a clergyman I would have expected you to believe Genesis 1.

It doesn't fdollow that he'd then believe the rubbsh that your lot read into it.