Flat or round earth -The final experiment.

[Larniavc]

During the Middle Ages people believed the Earth was flat.

When Columbus lived, people thought that the Earth was flat. We were taught this in school and as I know now, we were also taught a bunch of lies.

From your own link.

‘Flat Earth is an archaic and scientifically disproven conception of the Earth's shape as a plane or disk.’

This whole thread is stupid.

 

[Phil G]

When the sun traveled further away.

That’s not what Scripture says.

“Went down” does not have the same meaning as “travelled further away”.

You have to change the words of Scripture to say what you are saying. That’s what you keep accusing us of doing. That’s hypocritical.

 

[David Lamb]

Well who wrote these words that @Phil G posted;

“And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.” Genesis 15:17 KJV



I thought all scripture was inspired by God.

Yes, "when the sun went down," not "when the sun became so distant from Abraham that it disappeared."

 

[Apple Sky]

That’s not what Scripture says. “Went down” is not the same as “travelled further away”. You have to change the words of Scripture to say what you are saying. That’s what you keep accusing us of doing. That’s hypocritical.

Circling, travelling, going down, it makes no difference, the earth still doesn't orbit the sun. For the sun to have stopped the earth would have had to stood still .

That reminds me, I must watch the film

 

[David Lamb]

When the sun traveled further away.

But it doesn't say, "When the sun travelled further away, does it? It says, "When the sun went down."

 

[Phil G]

Circling, travelling, going down, it makes no difference,

Do you not understand plain English? All those have different meanings

So when the Bible doesn’t say what you want it to say, you just ignore the wording. And then accuse us of ignoring the wording when we explain something to you!

 

[Apple Sky]

Do you not understand plain English? All those have different meanings

I know this, but still, it make no difference, as the earth does not orbit the sun, show me in scripture where is say's it does this.

 

[Phil G]

I know this, but still, it make no difference

But you’re not making sense. What you are implying is that Scripture is contradictory.

You are not giving any reason as to why Scripture says the sun goes down and you say it travels further away. All you’re doing is ignoring the wording of one part of Scripture so that you can claim another part of Scripture is literal.

That’s not not being consistent.

 

[David Lamb]

I know this, but still, it make no difference, as the earth does not orbit the sun, show me in scripture where is say's it does this.

I don't think anyone here has ever claimed that the bible mentions the earth orbiting the sun. The point is that the bible does mention the sun rising and setting, not disappearing because it gets too far away to see, in other words, beyond the vanishing point.

 

[Strong in Him]

Well who wrote these words that @Phil G posted;

“And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.” Genesis 15:17 KJV

The belief is that it was Moses who wrote Genesis.

I thought all scripture was inspired by God.

Inspired, yes; dictated, no.
And words that were written to others don't automatically apply to us also.

God inspired Paul to oppose false teachers who were telling new Christians that they needed to be circumcised to be saved. Did he make Paul write the words, "as for those agitators, I wish they would ....... emasculate themselves"? Galatians 5:12.
God inspired Paul to write a letter to Timothy, encouraging him, telling him to continue it the faith and so on. Did he dictate the words, "stop drinking only water but take a little wine for your frequent illnesses"? Even if he had done, does that mean we need to apply that verse to ourselves today? What about alcoholics who have become Christians? Maybe I need to start drinking alcohol?
Moses wrote down the law that God gave him and the covenant that was made with his people - that is, with the people that God himself rescued from Egypt. Do the laws about not eating pork, only wearing clothes of one fibre and stoning to death anyone who does not keep the Sabbath apply to us too? No - and if you tried to observe the last one, you'd be arrested for murder.

 

[Apple Sky]

You are not giving any reason as to why Scripture says the sun goes down

Because it appears too.

 

[David Lamb]

Because it appears too.

Exactly! And that is just what one would expect with a rotating globe earth. You keep saying that the sun gets smaller and smaller until it reaches vanishing point. You have refused (for some reason) the many requests to answer the question about why you and the rest of us observe the sun appearing to be large at sunrise and sunset, just when, if your view is correct, it should be getting smaller and smaller as it approaches vanishing point. The bible does not mention the sun reaching vanishing point It talks of the sun rising and setting.

 

[Phil G]

Because it appears too.

Ah, so now you're claiming phenomenological language! In other words, you're claiming it "appears" to go down when it is traveling further away.

Well the same reasoning applies the the sun stopping. That's what it "appears" to do. Which is what we have been telling you all along.

Once again you are being inconsistent.

 

[Strong in Him]

You can't tell me any different without doubting Scripture.

No - it's your understanding that if a person does not accept every word written in the KJV as literal, they are doubting Scripture.
That is incorrect.
In fact, if we insist that Scripture is literal, or has to be applied literally, when that was not what its author intended, we are guilty of making the Bible say what we want it to say.

Jesus said that if our right hand causes us to sin we should cut it off and throw it away. He said that is our eye causes us to sin we should pluck it out. Did he mean that literally? If so, how many people are blind with no hands? You might cut one of your hands off, but how would you be able to cut the other one off? Would having no hands mean you were incapable of kicking, injuring or killing someone, or lying about them? No.
Jesus said that if anyone caused someone else to sin, they should have a millstone tied round their neck and be thrown into the sea, Matthew 18:6. Is that literally true; was Jesus telling us that we can kill people? What about where he told us to forgive and love our enemies?
Was Jesus literally a piece of wood, (door and gate) or a vine? No. We understand what he was saying by those words but they are not literally true.

 

[Apple Sky]

@Phil G @David Lamb @Strong in Him & @prodromos

I give up with you guys, your all adamant the earth is a spinning ball orbiting the sun, so be it, nothing that I say or show will make you believe otherwise, so stick to your indoctrinated world & I hope the truth will come out one day.

King James Bible
For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. Luke 8:17

 

[Phil G]

@Phil G @David Lamb @Strong in Him & @prodromos

I give up with you guys, your all adamant the earth is a spinning ball orbiting the sun, so be it, nothing that I say or show will make you believe otherwise, so stick to your indoctrinated world

It’s not us, it’s you. Your approach to Scripture is very inconsistent. One minute you’re telling us that Scripture must be taken literally when it says the sun stopped, the next minute you’re saying Scripture is using phenomenological language when it says the sun rises and goes down. And for no other reason than a preconceived notion that the earth is flat.

Your method is not searching for truth, but searching for confirmation of what you already have decided.

So you needn’t accuse us of being indoctrinated.

 

[Strong in Him]

@Phil G @David Lamb @Strong in Him & @prodromos

I give up with you guys, your all adamant the earth is a spinning ball orbiting the sun,

That's because it is.

so be it, nothing that I say or show will make you believe otherwise,

How can it?

i) I've already said that you lost all credibility when you went back on your vow to God. You replied, "am I bothered?" So you don't care that you have no credibility. If we can't trust you, how are we to trust what you say?
ii) It has been demonstrated to you that you contradict yourself. The most recent example was where you insisted that they had to ask Dean Odle to go on the Final Experiment so they could be seen to be fair. Then a few posts later, you said "I doubt they even asked him." You believe the earth to be flat, yet it is a circle with a depth of at least 40,000 feet. You insist it can't move, yet you acknowledge earthquakes.
iii) It has been demonstrated to you that you are sometimes wrong - not only in your beliefs, lack of scientific understanding and unwillingness to find out, but in very basic things. Like stating that NASA funded the Final Experiment, when it was an American Pastor who funded it. You said the moon landings were faked using CGI when they didn't have it in 1969.
iv) You have posted clips from YouTube, some of which have not showed what you claimed they showed, and have had to say, "my mistake" or "ooops, wrong video."
v) You insist on a literal translation of the KJV when it suits you but at other times, ignore it. I notice that you have not responded to my questions about taking certain verses literally. Of course not - saying "those are not literally true" would undermine your previous statements about Scripture.
vi) You often say, "explain please"; someone does and you, who have no scientific knowledge (by your own admission) contradict the explanation. You cannot explain the basic problems that arise with your flat earth model. You might sometimes find a YouTube clip which explains it for you, but you don't understand what they are saying, so don't even know whether it is accurate.
vii) in your own words, you are addicted to conspiracy theories, have no scientific knowledge yet contradict those who do and take certain passages of the Bible literally.

So how can you expect that we will even listen to, never mind be convinced by, anything that you have to say?
It would be like if I tried to convince people to live in Spain despite never having been to Spain.

I hope the truth will come out one day.

King James Bible
For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. Luke 8:17

You will realise the truth about the globe earth one day, yes.
But as it has nothing to do with salvation or the way we live our Christian lives, it will make no difference.

But you will also be faced with the fact that you have called other Christians liars and implied, or stated that we/they don't believe Genesis. THAT is far more serious - for you.

 

[David Lamb]

You will realise the truth about the globe earth one day, yes.
But as it has nothing to do with salvation or the way we live our Christian lives, it will make no difference.

But you will also be faced with the fact that you have called other Christians liars and implied, or stated that we/they don't believe Genesis. THAT is far more serious - for you.

I think that is the most important factor in our discussion - that whether we believe that the earth is a globe, a flat disc, a triangle a pyramid, or any other shape makes not the tiniest difference to whether we are saved or not. We are not any more or any less saved depending on our views of the shape of the earth.

Calling other Christians liars, or saying that they don't believe Genesis, simply because they believe differently to you on the shape of the earth cannot be right, as you say.

 

[HantsUK]

From your own link.

‘Flat Earth is an archaic and scientifically disproven conception of the Earth's shape as a plane or disk.’

This whole thread is stupid.

Yes.

These threads just go round and round in circles, wasting everyone's time.

The whole premise of "The Final Experiment" was pointless. If someone cannot work out or understand from simple everyday observations that the earth cannot be flat, then travelling to the Antarctic to observe 24 hours of daylight is unlikely to change their mind.

The other aspect of "flat earth" is what the Bible teaches. Most verses used in support of a flat earth are either poetic, describing abstract principles, or describing from our perspective. In a few places the Old Testament does refer to the ancient understandings of the world. God did not decide to reveal the detailed workings of the universe to us through the written Word. That is not the purpose for the Bible. The major themes in the Bible, such as salvation, are explained and repeated. Understanding how the universe works is not a requirement.

Normal language is not literal. The exception being legal documents. These are so literal so as to avoid any ambiguity or doubt over their meaning, that most people have to pay a solicitor to explain what it means in normal language.

You are driving and your passenger gives the instruction: "go straight on at the next roundabout". That is an instruction you need to follow. Not a suggestion. No some poetry. Not mystical reference to the meaning of life. However, if you follow that instruction literally, you will end up crashing and either going to hospital or being arrested by the police for dangerous driving. No, you drive around the roundabout, not attempt to drive "straight on" over the middle. At a crossroads, "straight on" would mean "straight on".

 

[Apple Sky]

So you needn’t accuse us of being indoctrinated.

I will & I do because you have, very much so & you just can't see it.