Flat Earthers: What They Believe and Why

[Lost4words]

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So if God gave man science. Why does all of science, not declare God exist and not just a random god, but The God of The Bible. Plus science originated from pagan cultures.

Why doesnt every single person in the world not declare that God exists and not some random God?

 

[d taylor]

Why doesnt every single person in the world not declare that God exists and not some random God?

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Because they are born alienated from God. That brings up another question. Why would God give to humanity, who are alienated from God. A system that makes claims about God's creation, that first did not come to humanity through the Hebrews. I mean they were entrusted with the oracles God. If science is from God why were the Hebrews not entrusted establishing the first science claims about God's creation.

 

[d taylor]

Its not a belief, its a historical fact and you can verify it easily, use google or AI.

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Do not need google or ai, i have The Bible. I am sure google and ai will tell you that life evolved over billions of years.

 

[Lost4words]

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Because they are born alienated from God. That brings up another question. Why would God give to humanity, who are alienated from God. A system that makes claims about God's creation, that first did not come to humanity through the Hebrews. I mean they were entrusted with the oracles God. If science is from God why were the Hebrews not entrusted establishing the first science claims about God's creation.

Your claim of a flat earth doesnt come from God. It comes from your interpretation of scripture and your imagination!

 

[trophy33]

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Do not need google or ai, i have The Bible. I am sure google and ai will tell you that life evolved over billions of years.

Bible is not an encyclopedia. Its not useful for study about whether pagan societies believed in the flat earth cosmology. You must read the writings of those societies or listen to the people who do it for you.

 

[lifepsyop]

How can anyone who believes that the earth is a sphere be making fun of God's creation? How?

Being a sphere or not doesn't seem as important as placing Earth into a Copernican cosmology, i.e. nothing special about Earth's place in the universe, just another speck of matter hurdling through the vacuum. A geocentric or flat earth would shatter Copernicanism, obviously.

The institution of modern science is rather obsessive about maintaining that Copernican worldview... For example, just look at how they call this recent observation "evil"...

The "axis of evil" is a name given to the apparent correlation between the plane of the Solar System and aspects of the cosmic microwave background (CMB). It gives the plane of the Solar System and hence the location of Earth a greater significance than might be expected by chance – a result which has been claimed to be evidence of a departure from the Copernican principle as assumed in the concordance model.

Axis of evil (cosmology) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I truly believe in God's creation!

Its just that you see 'flat earth' when you interpret scripture where i dont!

To get a better idea of where you're coming from, do you see the book of Exodus as real history? Do you believe the entire nation of Israel walked through the miraculously parted Red Sea as described?

Modern science and archaeology affirms this never happened, and that there is no evidence of it happening in that time period.

God gave us knowledge, He gave us the ability to learn and discover. He gave us science. Without God there would be no science....

This is a quote from the early 1700's:

"For God, according to these Philosophers, makes and governs a natural World that is capable of governing itself, and that might have made itself as well, had they not pass'd a needless and insignificant Compliment upon, the Creator."

Christian deism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think it captures the problem very well. Modern science will only ever arrive at a cosmological model where God is unnecessary. Undirected natural processes have everything covered... but hey let's be nice and give God the credit for nature so everybody's happy, especially the atheists who can go around saying there is no evidence at all for a Creator.

Basically, since the time of the Enlightenment, the pioneers of modern cosmology have been fixated on advancing a *Deistic* universe. They have no problem with a creator god... as long as it's a distant, hidden god (whom they refer to as Nature's god) that can only be discovered through reason and nature. (and definitely not learned of through writings handed down by bronze-age goat-herders, an idea which Enlightenment men found abhorrent and insulting)

The idea of creation or earth history being revealed by the visions of Moses drove these deists and natural philosophers wild. They wanted nothing more than to abolish that history, and so they became ideologically committed to the Copernican principle and so nothing about the Earth can possibly be special.

 

[Jipsah]

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Yall can make fun of God's creation

No need, it has not the vaguest resemblance to the Rube Goldberg universe envisioned by Flatties.

a day is coming where you will not be able to avoid the true creation

We're not the ones avoiding it now. Who is it who fears to look through a telescope to see God's wonders above us? Hint: It ain't us, boss. Y'all are afraid you'll find out that God's universe make your tiny little world on a dinnerplate with its lights hanging from drop cords suspended from the ceiling and its oceans splashing around for no discernible reason look ridiculous.

that is described in The Bible

But it isn't, is it? 90% of the rubbish y'all believe is made up from whole cloth, with no basis in either Scripture or science. Y'all are frightened of the idea of a God Who can create an unimaginably huge and complex universe. Y'all need something you can describe in a couple of pages, and say, "Yeah, that's all God made, right there.". Something that doesn't challenge you in any way. You want a God who isn't Too Big, and isn't Too Omnipotent. You want a God who lives on a mountain, but not Too Big a mountain. You'd like a nice Local God, who isn't at all scary.

Sorry, but that isn't with God Who designed this unfathomably huge and complex cosmos. You'll explore it for the rest of eternity and still not scratch the surface. That's the nature of the God with Whom we have to do.

Science will be of no help to you then.

Won't need it then. " For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; but then shall I know, even as also I am known. "

 

[Jipsah]

Being a sphere or not doesn't seem as important as placing Earth into a Copernican cosmology, i.e. nothing special about Earth's place in the universe

Just one thing, and one thing only. God the Creator Himself came here, and died, and rose again. Don't you reckon that's a bit more important than a higher mountain or a deeper ocean?

just another speck of matter hurdling through the vacuum.

You'd prefer a special speck? You feeling neglected because there's nothing particularly special about the world God put us on?

A geocentric or flat earth would shatter Copernicanism, obviously

Who cares? You have a wager with Copernicus or something?

The institution of modern science is rather obsessive about maintaining that Copernican worldview... For example, just look at how they call this recent observation "evil"...

Oh, the horror! But if you're already mad at Nick Copernicus anyway, what's the problem?

To get a better idea of where you're coming from, do you see the book of Exodus as real history? Do you believe the entire nation of Israel walked through the miraculously parted Red Sea as described?

Sure, why not? But then, the Gospel doesn't depend on my guessing right on the question, does it?

Modern science and archaeology affirms this never happened, and that there is no evidence of it happening in that time period.

OK. Binary solution set - either it did or it didn't. That's not the Gospel. The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. That's the fact on which our salvation depends. not on getting the answers in a Bible quiz correct.

"For God, according to these Philosophers, makes and governs a natural World that is capable of governing itself, and that might have made itself as well, had they not pass'd a needless and insignificant Compliment upon, the Creator."

Well dang, that's obviously ungood. So what? We have people in this day and time who believe that the earth is flat, which is even more ridiculous than that.

Christian deism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You love you some deism, don't you? You need to find you some deists and go haggle with them. They're scarce in these parts.

Modern science will only ever arrive at a cosmological model where God is unnecessary.

Because you find that this universe is too complex for God to have made? Tiny God Syndrome again.

Undirected natural processes have everything covered.

"Undirected" is your notion.

. but hey let's be nice and give God the credit for nature so everybody's happy, especially the atheists who can go around saying there is no evidence at all for a Creator.

How about giving God credit for having created a universe that's far too huge, and marvelous, and intricate, and elegant, and precise, and beautiful, and in general stunningly magnificent, for you to conprehend, and so you have to mentally shrink it down to something that you can get your exceedingly finite mind to more or less grasp.

Basically, since the time of the Enlightenment, the pioneers of modern cosmology have been fixated on advancing a *Deistic* universe.

To the lake with your "deist" rubbish. Beat that strawman on your own time, no one here cares. Have a go at the Zoroastrians while you're at it, there my actually be some of those left around to care

They have no problem with a creator god... as long as it's a distant, hidden god (whom they refer to as Nature's god)

Blah, blah, blah, so what? Our God became flesh and dwelt among us remember that? He was crucified and rose again. He ascended into Heaven. He is the First and the Last. So what does some other religion's notion of God have to do with anything?

Even our God's chosen people rejected Him. He came unto His own and His own reeived Him not. They may have believed some of the same stuff about the universe that you do; how did it help them? They thumped their Bibles and shouted "Crucify Him!" What was more important? Having the "correct" view of Creation? (They were wrong about that, too.)

that can only be discovered through reason and nature. (and definitely not learned of through writings handed down by bronze-age goat-herders, an idea which Enlightenment men found abhorrent and insulting)

See above. The Scribes and Phariees had the OT down by heart. How'd that work out for them?

The idea of creation or earth history being revealed by the visions of Moses drove these deists and natural philosophers wild.

Again, find yourself some deists and natural philosophers to rail at. While you're at it, you can find some Jews who still take the Creation narratives as actual history as literally true and hang out with them, Nemmind their rejection of the Creator coming here in the Flesh, they take the Creation narrative literally, and that's the main thing, right?

They wanted nothing more than to abolish that history

How'd that work out?

, and so they became ideologically committed to the Copernican principle and so nothing about the Earth can possibly be special.

I guess our hope of eternal life is based on the earth being "special", zat it?

 

[d taylor]

No ned, it has not the vaguest resemblance to the Rube Goldberg universe envisioned by Flatties.

WEer're not the ones avoiding it now. Who is it who fears to look through a telescope to see God's wonders above us? Hint: It ain't us, boss. Y'all are afraid you'll find out that God's universe make your tiny little world on a
dinnerplate with its lights hanging from drop cords suspended from the ceiling and its oceans splasing around for no discernible reason

But it isn't, is it? 90% of the rubbish y'all believe is made up from whole cloth, with no basis in either Scripture or science. Y'all are frightened of the idea of a God Who can create a unimaginably huge and complex universe. Y'all need something you can describe in a couple of pages, and say, "Yeah, that's all God made, right there.". Something that doesn't challenge you in any way. You want a God who isn't Too Big, and isn't Too Omnipotent. You want a God who lives on a mountain, but not Too Big a mountain. You'd like a nice Local God, who isn't at all scary.

Sorry, but that isn't with God Who designed this unfathomably huge and complex cosmos. You'll explore it for the rest of eternity and still not scratch the surface. That's the nature of the God with Whom we have to do.



Won't need it then. " For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; but then shall I know, even as also I am known. "

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The day the globe earth lie. will be exposed for just what it is a lie. Is coming, it is like a persons death day, it is coming as each day passes. The question is will you be prepared to face the creation truth of The Bible. Plus you also have your evolution beliefs added to your list of lies you have placed your faith in.

 

[Jipsah]

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The day the globe earth lie. will be exposed for just what it is a lie.

Sez no Scripture anywhere.

The question is will you be prepared to face the creation truth of The Bible.

Already have, matey. The little teeny creation you imagine doesn't signify.

Plus you also have your evolution beliefs added to your list of lies you have placed your faith in.

My faith is in my Lord Christ, Who died and rose again to save sinners. If your faith lies in the shape of the Earth, tn right or wrong, that faith is ridiculous. "But Lord,I knew the Earth was flat!'. Even if that was true, so what? I 'spect there are thousands of Muslims who agree with you on that point, reckon that'll ge them into the Islamic neighborhoods in Heaven?

 

[d taylor]

Sez no Scripture anywhere.

Already have, matey. The little teeny creation you imagine doesn't signify.

My faith is in my Lord Christ, Who died and rose again to save sinners. If your faith lies in the shape of the Earth, tn right or wrong, that faith is ridiculous. "But Lord,I knew the Earth was flat!'. Even if that was true, so what? I 'spect there are thousands of Muslims who agree with you on that point, reckon that'll ge them into the Islamic neighborhoods in Heaven?

Just think of all the true literal accounts in The Bible. You will eventually have to accept as actually being true accounts given by God and not parables or metaphors teaching spiritual truths

The creation account in Genesis 1, the creation of Adam and Eve, The Flood account, the tower of Babel, The sun standing still, on and on.

 

[trophy33]

Just think of all the true literal accounts in The Bible. You will eventually have to accept as actually being true accounts given by God and not parables or metaphors teaching spiritual truths

The creation account in Genesis 1, the creation of Adam and Eve, The Flood account, the tower of Babel, The sun standing still, on and on.

And God fighting multi-headed dragons to create and keep the world.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Michael Marshall, project director of the Good Thinking Society in the U.K., talks about flat earth belief and its relationship to conspiracy theories and other antiscience activities.

So I'm Michael Marshall and I'm the project director of the good thinking society, which is a charity based in the UK. Uh, the whole purpose of our charity is to promote science to challenge pseudoscience. So we'll do work, uh, to forward science education. And then another part of the, the work that we do, which is the bulk of my work, is to find ideas that aren't backed by evidence and find people who are promoting those ideas, find people who are buying into those ideas and to explore them and figure out if anything can be done to prevent people being confused by them, harmed by them misled by them in those kinds of things. So I spent a lot of my time looking at things like alternative cancer kills and the people who promote those and alternative medicine. I've spent a lot of my time going to see people who say they can talk the dead. Who say they can do faith healing.

And then another part of my, uh, my time is spent talking to people who believe in, uh, unusual ideas and who are kind of proponents of them. And that's how I came across the flat earth world, uh, is through my, uh, slightly odd, uh, hobby. Uh, at the time before I was working full time as a, as a skeptic, it was a hobby of mine to, um, be in rooms filled with people who disagree with me. To just understand what brings people to ideas that I would look at and say, well, this can't be true. These kinds of fringe and extreme and unusual beliefs. Um, what brings people to believe them and what kind of paths lead people there? What evidence supports, uh, supports their position in their minds and how do they engage with the world with that worldview and try and have conversations.

Continued below.

Flat Earthers: What They Believe and Why

Michael Marshall, project director of the Good Thinking Society in the U.K., talks about flat earth belief and its relationship to conspiracy theories and other antiscience activities.

www.scientificamerican.com

"And I also think there's another schism going on in the movement at the time, which is between one side, which are people who genuinely really believed the world was flat. And the other side, which absolutely did not believe it, but enjoy the intellectual pursuit of arguing a position they need to be false. "

I think this may be the case for many flat Earthers. I thought it might be challenging myself as an intellectual exercise. But there are so many better things to do..

 

[Lost4words]

Just think of all the true literal accounts in The Bible. You will eventually have to accept as actually being true accounts given by God and not parables or metaphors teaching spiritual truths

The creation account in Genesis 1, the creation of Adam and Eve, The Flood account, the tower of Babel, The sun standing still, on and on.

You are forgetting one important thing....

YOUR INTERPRETATION OF GOD'S WORD!!!

Yes, 'YOURS!'......

You interpret scripture to come out with things are not from God. God gave us a spherical earth my friend.

Step back from your keyboard and see reality, not untruths and fantastical interpretations of scripture!

 

[d taylor]

And God fighting multi-headed dragons to create and keep the world.

Sorry you can not believe God or sorry that you have pick and choose what you will believe.

We do not see our signs;
There is no longer any prophet;
Nor is there any among us who knows how long.
O God, how long will the adversary [c]reproach?
Will the enemy blaspheme Your name forever?
Why do You withdraw Your hand, even Your right hand?
Take it out of Your bosom and destroy them.
For God is my King from of old,
Working salvation in the midst of the earth.
You divided the sea by Your strength;
You broke the heads of the sea serpents in the waters.
You broke the heads of Leviathan in pieces,
And gave him as food to the people inhabiting the wilderness.
You broke open the fountain and the flood;
You dried up mighty rivers.
The day is Yours, the night also is Yours;
You have prepared the light and the sun.
You have set all the borders of the earth;
You have made summer and winter.

 

[trophy33]

Sorry you can not believe God or sorry that you have pick and choose what you will believe.

Your usual error you somehow cannot get over - equating your Bible with God himself.

 

[d taylor]

Your usual error you somehow cannot get over - equating your Bible with God himself.

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Really what do you actually believe from The Bible. Do you believe Jesus actually walked on water.

 

[trophy33]

Really what do you actually believe from The Bible. Do you believe Jesus actually walked on water.

Its not a central or even an important thing for my beliefs, but I see no reason (either in the text or in our knowledge) why He could not do it.

BTW, there is no The (sic) Bible, but a lot of Bibles.

 

[Jipsah]

Sorry you can not believe God or sorry that you have pick and choose what you will believe.

I believe God, and I can look and see His creation for myself. It's all around us. I look and see that it's unbelievably vast, beyond human understanding. You don't bother to look at it at all, but simply imagine that it must be an oversized snow globe. Just the very small part of His creation that I worked with most of my life lays your petty little mental image of what God has wrought to shame. Spare us the phony piety and oh-so-religious posturing. You're firmly stuck in a pre-Christian mindset, where they saw God as "mighty" because He'd help them win a battle against the neighboring tribe. They had no understanding of the magnitude of God's actual power and authority, and the unfathomable grandeur of the universe He Created and rules.

 

[Jipsah]

Your usual error you somehow cannot get over - equating your Bible with God himself.

His gross misunderstanding of his Bible at that.