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FLAT EARTH.

Ken Rank

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Adam was made AFTER plants. Plants existed long enough to be "brought forth from the earth."

Plants were made on day 3, Adam was made on day 6. If you believe that this is not a literal day (despite "and the evening and morning were day ___") then I can't defend myself. But if this is a literal 24 hour period, then 3 days is not long enough for anything to be produced to feed Adam. Again, I believe in literal days, and the evening and morning were 1 day... I take that literally and there isn't anything at this point that can change that view. So again, let's not waste each others time. :)

Blessings.
 
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mmksparbud

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Plants were made on day 3, Adam was made on day 6. If you believe that this is not a literal day (despite "and the evening and morning were day ___") then I can't defend myself. But if this is a literal 24 hour period, then 3 days is not long enough for anything to be produced to feed Adam. Again, I believe in literal days, and the evening and morning were 1 day... I take that literally and there isn't anything at this point that can change that view. So again, let's not waste each others time. :)

Blessings.

Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

It is not possible to read this as anything but literal---it plainly states God said to bring forth, and it was so and the next verse says it brought forth. It was said and done. Anything else is wishful thinking to avoid looking foolish in view of what evolutionists believe.
 
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Ken Rank

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Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

It is not possible to read this as anything but literal---it plainly states God said to bring forth, and it was so and the next verse says it brought forth. It was said and done. Anything else is wishful thinking to avoid looking foolish in view of what evolutionists believe.

I don't assume that growth was at the same speed as again, God did not nurse Adam. But, I am foolish and like so many on this forum... well done insulting other brothers. God loves that! (Prov. 6:16-19)
 
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mmksparbud

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well done insulting other brothers. God loves that! (Prov. 6:16-19) googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1474449713049-1'); });

What insult?????
 
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Ken Rank

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What insult?????

"Anything else is wishful thinking to avoid looking foolish in view of what evolutionists believe."

My view differs that yours, it is wishful thinking and foolish? That is how it sounded. If I am right, it is an insult, if I am not correct, my apologies.
 
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Meowzltov

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Plants were made on day 3, Adam was made on day 6. If you believe that this is not a literal day (despite "and the evening and morning were day ___") then I can't defend myself. But if this is a literal 24 hour period, then 3 days is not long enough for anything to be produced to feed Adam. Again, I believe in literal days, and the evening and morning were 1 day... I take that literally and there isn't anything at this point that can change that view. So again, let's not waste each others time. :)

Blessings.
Again, if you take it literally, "the earth produced" means that fullgrown trees did not suddenly appear.
 
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mmksparbud

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"Anything else is wishful thinking to avoid looking foolish in view of what evolutionists believe."

My view differs that yours, it is wishful thinking and foolish? That is how it sounded. If I am right, it is an insult, if I am not correct, my apologies.


I said to avoid looking foolish. Those who take Gen 1 literally, like I do, are the ones that appear foolish to those that believe in evolution.
 
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Meowzltov

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I said to avoid looking foolish. Those who take Gen 1 literally, like I do, are the ones that appear foolish to those that believe in evolution.
It's sort of like having a trial, and all the evidence points to the accused being guilty, yet the jury finds him not guilty. Creationism runs contrary to the evidence. Instead of starting with evidence and then reaching conclusions, it starts with the conclusions, and then picks and chooses what "evidence" it wants to hear.
 
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Ken Rank

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Again, if you take it literally, "the earth produced" means that fullgrown trees did not suddenly appear.

I told you, you cannot change my mind and yet you continue to try. Adam didn't nurse off God's breasts, he needed food. Therefore, either the trees produced fruit at an advanced speed or they were created bearing fruit.... but in the end you still have to deal with the fact that Adam had to eat. Food had to be available, I have offered an answer. Perhaps it is a wrong answer, but it is an attempt at an answer. Telling me I am wrong is not you solving the problem. Perhaps you might spend some time trying to solve it instead of telling me how wrong I am? :) Blessings sis.
 
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Ken Rank

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I said to avoid looking foolish. Those who take Gen 1 literally, like I do, are the ones that appear foolish to those that believe in evolution.

Ah, well then, I apologize for assuming it was meant the other way. Thanks for clarifying. Blessings!
 
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mmksparbud

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It's sort of like having a trial, and all the evidence points to the accused being guilty, yet the jury finds him not guilty. Creationism runs contrary to the evidence. Instead of starting with evidence and then reaching conclusions, it starts with the conclusions, and then picks and chooses what "evidence" it wants to hear.


Yep---like the 12 men and one woman who were found guilty because all the evidence pointed to that and executed. Then they discovered they were actually innocent. Who says all the evidence is in? There is more to find out yet. I'll wait for science to catch up to what God has said.
 
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Ken Rank

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Yep---like the 12 men and one woman who were found guilty because all the evidence pointed to that and executed. Then they discovered they were actually innocent. Who says all the evidence is in? There is more to find out yet. I'll wait for science to catch up to what God has said.

I am in the same boat... so many times I have seen (or we all have seen) science come out with a new find, that was recorded in Scripture long ago. In relatively modern times, for example, we learn that each star emits a unique radio signal... and arguably the oldest book of the bible claimed the stars 'sang' to God.

In the end, however, God is supernatural and science does not have to back Him.
 
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Joshua_5

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Oh of course it has. Your "proofs" for a flat earth are absurd.

These proofs (this list is by no means exhaustive) have been mentioned here in this thread, but in case you want to review them all in one place:
Top10 Proofs the Earth is not Flat
http://www.smarterthanthat.com/astronomy/top-10-ways-to-know-the-earth-is-not-flat/

1. During a lunar eclipse, the shadow of the earth on the moon is circular, and it requires the sun to be behind the earth.
Look up "selenehelion". One occurred on Dec 10, 2011, but they have occurred quite a number of times through history. These are when a lunar eclipse occurs at the same time the sun is above the horizon. Impossible according to the ball-Earth theory of lunar eclipses, invalidating your "proof 1".

2 and 3. The sailor up in the crows nest can spot land before those down in the deck because he can see farther over the edge of the horizon, and the mast of a ship is seen from the shore AFTER the ship has disappeared beyond the horizon.
Perspective is the reason for this phenomena. When two objects are close together, especially where one is much larger than the other (as the ocean is larger than the ship), the smaller will appear blur into the larger. If this phenomena were truly due to the ship travelling over a spherical horizon on a ball-Earth, a telescope would not be able to bring the ship back into view (light travels in straight lines). As a telescope can bring the ship back into view, the phenomena is due to perspective, rather than any pupported curvature of Earth. "Proof 2" invalidated.
People can see further the higher they are, due to perspective. Essentially, objects on Earth will blend into the background at the same angle to the eye. But if the height of the eye is increased, the angle will occur at a greater distance toward the horizon, and hence one can see further. If Earth were a sphere, the maximum distance one could see can be calculated, based on the pupported curvature of Earth. At sea, many lighthouses can be seen at distances exceeding this horizon limit, disproving the theory the Earth is a globe. "Proof 3" invalidated.

4. Varying star constellations.
The stars never appear to cross each other. Even if they were as far away as alleged, if Earth were travelling the huge distances alleged around the sun, the change in angle would likely change the appearance of star constellations, if some stars were closer than others (due to parallax). As this does not happen, the reasonable conclusion is that stars are approximately the same distance from Earth, in a shell-like layer (e.g. firmament). "Proof 4" invalidated.

5. Two stick upright in the ground produce different shadows rather than the same shadow.
Simple trignometry. This phenomena would apply whether the Earth is flat or a ball. Incidently, the same trignometry giving the different length shadows can be used to prove the sun is quite close - in the order of hundreds of kilometers away. "Proof 5" invalidated.

6. a. Planes can travel far in ANY direction and not fall off.
Incorrect. Planes can travel East and West, and not fall off. Think of East and West as counterclockwise, and clockwise, around a plate (North is plate centre, South is outward toward the edge). No plane has ever travelled South and come up "on the other side". When planes travel at altitude, if Earth were a globe, the pilots would continually be adjusting the nose of the plane downward to prevent the plane going into space (if Earth were a giant ball). Pilots don't ever do this, and planes never end up in space as a result of pilots not doing this, because Earth is flat. "Proof 6a" invalidated.

b. Riding in a plane, one can see the curvature of the horizon.
Even on a ball-Earth, one could not "see" the curvature of the horizon, as light does not travel around corners. The "curvature" many allege they see on planes etc. is due to psychology (expecting to see it), and the shape of the windows (or the fish eye lenses of cameras for drones, balloons etc.) Mathematically, even if Earth were a ball, one would need to be so far from Earth as to require looking down to see it (i.e. it couldn't be seen simply by looking level out a plane window, which is all that is required to see the horizon on a plane). "Proof 6b" invalidated.

7. We know from telescope use that other planets are spherical. It would be absurd to assume that our own planet were any different.
Earth is not a planet. "Planet" means wanderer. The planets move. The Earth does not. An analogy of the logic used here is thus: "I went to the zoo, and visited the orangutan enclosure. All I could see were orangutans. Ergo, I must be an orangutan". "Proof 7" invalidated.

8. "The sun and flat/spherical Earth: If the sun was a “spotlight” (very directionally located so that light only shines on a specific location) and the world was flat, we would have seen the sun even if it didn’t shine on top of us (as you can see in the drawing below). The same way you can see the light coming out of a spotlight on a stage in the theater, even though you – the crowd – are in the dark. The only way to create two distinctly separate timezones, where there is complete darkness in one while there’s light in the other, is if the world is spherical."
A long tunnel with a light at the end disproves this theory. Eventually, if the tunnel is long enough, the light will totally disappear. "Proof 8" invalidated. I concede that there are not satisfactory Flat Earth theory answers to all questions about the motion of the Heavenly bodies, same as there are not satisfactory Ball Earth theory answers to the motion of the Heavenly bodies (e.g. refer to question 1). This doesn't mean a flat Earth can't be proved - just that the motions of the Heavenly bodies can't always be well explained... yet.

9. Center of Gravity. If the earth were flat, gravity would be pulling you towards the center of the plane, NOT straight down. The fact that we are pulled straight down speaks to a sphere.
If Earth were a ball, spinning around the sun, the theory of gravity has it that Earth would be accelerating approximately 5mm/sec toward the sun. An acceleration of this magnitude can be felt and measured. Why cannot the pupported acceleration of Earth's orbit around the sun be felt by man, or measured by his instruments?
Many people who accept flat Earth theory believe the theory of gravity to be unnecessary. That is, dense objects sink, less dense objects float. This alone makes this objection to Flat Earth theory invald. "Proof 9" invalidated.

10. Pictures from space, and manned missions into space.
By NASA, caught out 1963 for hoaxing the moon landing (not to mention the murder of the initial astronauts comprising the Moon Hoax team who weren't afraid to publicly embarrass NASA, or the murder of the man who was going to testify to Congress about their fakery). What justification do you have for ever trusting such an organisation again?

Honorabled mentions:

* Biruni calculated the circumference of the earth from triangulation.
A circle is flat, and has a circumference. The same triangulation you are happy to accept "proves" the Earth has a circumference, also proves the sun to be several hundred kilometers away.

* The Bedford Level Experiment was done to prove that the Earth was FLAT. It was repeated numerous times, proving every time that the earth was a sphere.
Actually, no. It was only "proved" a sphere by the cad (and probable Mason) Alfred Russel Wallace, who deliberately used incorrect measurements (and a totally different method) for his experiment. Everyone else who has performed the Bedford level experiment (more times than Alfred) came to the conclusion the Earth (if not the Bedford canal) is flat.
 
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Joshua_5

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You said:

The EVIDENCE that God gives indicates that stars are a gazillion light years away (they measure the parallax). Hence your statement that the evidence that the evidence would not deceive us and therefore you believe the stars are small and close, is self contradictory.
They only measure the parallax because they believe the Earth to be spinning about the sun. It is not. If they used simple trignometry, the stars are much closer. This is really the only scientific way to do it.
 
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SilverBear

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Look up "selenehelion". One occurred on Dec 10, 2011, but they have occurred quite a number of times through history. These are when a lunar eclipse occurs at the same time the sun is above the horizon. Impossible according to the ball-Earth theory of lunar eclipses, invalidating your "proof 1".
Atmospheric refraction - The Earth's atmosphere acts like a lens bending light and causing astronomical objects to appear higher in the sky than they are in reality.





Perspective is the reason for this phenomena. When two objects are close together, especially where one is much larger than the other (as the ocean is larger than the ship), the smaller will appear blur into the larger. If this phenomena were truly due to the ship travelling over a spherical horizon on a ball-Earth, a telescope would not be able to bring the ship back into view (light travels in straight lines). As a telescope can bring the ship back into view, the phenomena is due to perspective, rather than any pupported curvature of Earth. "Proof 2" invalidated.
People can see further the higher they are, due to perspective. Essentially, objects on Earth will blend into the background at the same angle to the eye. But if the height of the eye is increased, the angle will occur at a greater distance toward the horizon, and hence one can see further. If Earth were a sphere, the maximum distance one could see can be calculated, based on the pupported curvature of Earth. At sea, many lighthouses can be seen at distances exceeding this horizon limit, disproving the theory the Earth is a globe. "Proof 3" invalidated.

"One typically sees further along the Earth's curved surface than a simple geometric calculation allows for because of refraction error. If the ground, or water, surface is colder than the air above it, a cold, dense layer of air forms close to the surface, causing light to be refracted downward as it travels, and therefore, to some extent, to go around the curvature of the Earth. The reverse happens if the ground is hotter than the air above it, as often happens in deserts, producing mirages. As an approximate compensation for refraction, surveyors measuring longer distances than 300 feet subtract 14% from the calculated curvature error and ensure lines of sight are at least 5 feet from the ground, to reduce random errors created by refraction."


as for your lighthouse reference:
HorizonDistance.png



The stars never appear to cross each other. Even if they were as far away as alleged, if Earth were travelling the huge distances alleged around the sun, the change in angle would likely change the appearance of star constellations, if some stars were closer than others (due to parallax). As this does not happen, the reasonable conclusion is that stars are approximately the same distance from Earth, in a shell-like layer (e.g. firmament). "Proof 4" invalidated.
you might want to look up parallax


Simple trignometry. This phenomena would apply whether the Earth is flat or a ball. Incidently, the same trignometry giving the different length shadows can be used to prove the sun is quite close - in the order of hundreds of kilometers away. "Proof 5" invalidated.
can you provide these simple equations?


Incorrect. Planes can travel East and West, and not fall off. Think of East and West as counterclockwise, and clockwise, around a plate (North is plate centre, South is outward toward the edge). No plane has ever travelled South and come up "on the other side".
LATAM airlines, Air New Zealand and Qantas airlines do this all the time.


When planes travel at altitude, if Earth were a globe, the pilots would continually be adjusting the nose of the plane downward to prevent the plane going into space (if Earth were a giant ball). Pilots don't ever do this, and planes never end up in space as a result of pilots not doing this, because Earth is flat. "Proof 6a" invalidated.
"Escape velocity", go look it up


Even on a ball-Earth, one could not "see" the curvature of the horizon, as light does not travel around corners. The "curvature" many allege they see on planes etc. is due to psychology (expecting to see it), and the shape of the windows (or the fish eye lenses of cameras for drones, balloons etc.) Mathematically, even if Earth were a ball, one would need to be so far from Earth as to require looking down to see it (i.e. it couldn't be seen simply by looking level out a plane window, which is all that is required to see the horizon on a plane). "Proof 6b" invalidated.

"Visual daytime observations show that the minimum altitude at which curvature of the horizon can be detected is at or slightly below 35,000 ft, providing that the field of view is wide (60°) and nearly cloud free."Lynch, D. K. (2008). Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth. Applied Optics.

Earth is not a planet. "Planet" means wanderer. The planets move. The Earth does not. An analogy of the logic used here is thus: "I went to the zoo, and visited the orangutan enclosure. All I could see were orangutans. Ergo, I must be an orangutan". "Proof 7" invalidated.
there are some statements just to goofy to even attempt to address
 
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Ken Rank

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"Atmospheric refraction - The Earth's atmosphere acts like a lens bending light and causing astronomical objects to appear higher in the sky than they are in reality."

I am glad you brought this up. I mentioned it the other night but I didn't explain it well.
 
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GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta

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None of the verses shared with me yesterday sway me and the person whose website was cited is a conspiracy nut who ascribes evil to anything that doesn't agree with him. There are so many testable methods that prove a globe... I gave an example of one and it can be backed with a second independent test. But there are so many more... I just don't get it. I guess in the last days we will be blown around by all winds of doctrine. I don't mean that in a mean way... but I am aware of so many new doctrine being taught as either new godly revelation or the correction of some liar from our past who led us astray. The earth curves, we can see it, test it, and calculate it and only Al Gore's fuzzy math comes away with anything less than a globe.

Think about who promotes globe theory and ask yourself if it is a Godly outfit?
 
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