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Flat Earth: Why doesn't a Plane's altitude meter (gyroscope) pitch up and down if it's a round earth

ecco

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That is exactly what this guy finds out.... until he is guided by a wise man, who happens to be an atheist, to look at the right period of time. Very interesting. There is evidence if you look under the right rocks.
Of course , you can ignore truth. It doesn't make it go away though.
But, what if there is actual proof in the sands of time and history? If there is proof, you cannot just deny facts.

Yet, all you have done is talk about the proof, you haven't provided any. And don't just post a link and expect me to read a lengthy article. Explain it in your own words.

You said the OT was stories, past down over generations. We believe the writings of Socrates and Plato yet the Bible transcripts were recorded in short periods of time, not passed down from generation to generation.

You have misunderstood what I said. I said the OT was stories, passed down over generations. They may have been written down in a short period of time once writing was developed.
Sacsayhuamán (or Saksaywaman), outskirts of Cusco, Peru, the former capital of the Inca Empire. Clear evidence that technology not invented for thousands of years was used in the construction.

The Nazca Lines – etched into a high plateau in Peru’s Nazca Desert, a series of ancient designs stretching more than 50 miles has baffled archaeologists for decades.

I don't know and you haven't stated what is on the outskirts of Cusco. However, I am aware of the Nazca Lines.
Erich von Däniken posited they were like runway lines for ancient aliens to land their spacecraft.

Do try to do a little thinking:
Aliens who developed the technology to travel vast distances at near or exceeding light speed, need lines scratched in the dirt to help them land.
Really?


I'll not bother with the rest of your ancient aliens nonsense.
 
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katerinah1947

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Hi,

Even I saw the work done to further Eric Von Danikens work in the book, was God and Astronaut?

San Jose State University decided to further his work. They went to several or all the sites that he discovered artifacts, and found not only nothing, but in one case the man who produced one of the artifact types used in Eric Von Danikens book.

Here is an introduction on him:

Erich Anton Paul von Däniken (/ˈɛrɨk fɒn ˈdɛnɨkɨn/; German:[ˈeːʁɪç fɔn ˈdɛːnɪkən]; born 14 April 1935) is a Swiss author of several books which make pseudoscientific claims about extraterrestrial influences on early human culture, including the best-selling Chariots of the Gods?, published in 1968. Däniken is one of the main figures responsible for popularizing the "paleo-contact" and ancient astronauts hypotheses. The ideas put forth in his books are rejected by scientists and academics, who categorize his work as pseudohistory and pseudoarchaeology.[1][2][3]

LOVE,
 
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Gene2memE

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Hi,

Can I guess that you work in the field of Molecular Biology from your online name?

LOVE,

No. That would be incorrect.

I've formal education in history, economics and law, and professional experience in education, law and consulting in a number of different fields, primarily environmental issues and aviation. I'm self educated - meaning widely read, mostly through written for the layman books - in a range of other topics.

The reason I quoted your post is that stating you "worked in the field of science" is an exceptionally odd phraseology. Its like saying you "lived in the suburb of Earth". Or the accent you used to have was "a language".

As for there being "no disagreements in what God actually meant, and what Science also says is true", I'm intrigued by your use of weasel words "actually meant". It gives you an exceptionally broad out, without any of those nasty cognitive dissonance issues that crop up nine times out of ten with biblical literalists around here.

What then, is your position on the following:

Global flooding within the period of recorded history
Transformation of homo sapiens into pillars of salt
The duration of survivability when consumed by a giant sea creature
Genetic bottlenecking in species when reduced to two or seven breeding pairs
 
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katerinah1947

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No. That would be incorrect.

I've formal education in history, economics and law, and professional experience in education, law and consulting in a number of different fields, primarily environmental issues and aviation. I'm self educated - meaning widely read, mostly through written for the layman books - in a range of other topics.

The reason I quoted your post is that stating you "worked in the field of science" is an exceptionally odd phraseology. Its like saying you "lived in the suburb of Earth". Or the accent you used to have was "a language".

As for there being "no disagreements in what God actually meant, and what Science also says is true", I'm intrigued by your use of weasel words "actually meant". It gives you an exceptionally broad out, without any of those nasty cognitive dissonance issues that crop up nine times out of ten with biblical literalists around here.

What then, is your position on the following:

Global flooding within the period of recorded history
Transformation of homo sapiens into pillars of salt
The duration of survivability when consumed by a giant sea creature
Genetic bottlenecking in species when reduced to two or seven breeding pairs

Hi,

What I meant by the what God actually meant, was not weasely, but I suppose I can guess why you used that particular set of words.

By Osmosis, meaning it was always done, calibrations of people and equipment are done in research as a normal not thought of activity. After a few years, it is no longer even thought of, unless a calibration was missed, and then all the work is started over again. It is that unknown, that causes work to be redone, as the fundamental tool, Controlled Experiments, have to be done, with only one thing that is changed called the unknown.

Please try to see this as no evasion of your questions. I will not evade. But hand in there to hopefully understand me, before I answer the amount of questions I can answer, if any.

Biblically, I tested five items after the first part of my research was done. In the first part, I did not know if The Bible was real or not. All I know is using the standard resarch methods, I could not prove the Bible wrong with a proof that would stand up to scientific scrutiny of the types of people I worked with, but I did take the next step. I asked around in the year 2000 or so if anyone had proved the Bible wrong with a proof that could stand up. No one had.

After a much needed break from that work, I ran five controlled experiements, with only one unknown. As, you use normal logic, you know that tested items can result in and answer, and they can result in a no answer and they can result in an ambiguous answer.

The answer, to whether the Bible is real or not, was unambiguous, but. But, I had to spend years and years taking out, the accidental errors put into that book by translators. To do that, required up to 9 translations and a general translation. The nice part of that, is I did not have to revert to the original languages doing that, and that shortened the work probably by years and years. As it was it took over 8 years just to complete the first part.

After the first part was done, I did have two items I could prove did not happen the way the Bible said it did. In peer review, I had failed to accomodate some things, and made an error. I was then left with nothing, that I could prove wrong.

Interestingly enough, it was the age of Adam, and the year in which the global flood was supposed to have happened, using the begets and begats to date that. In peer review, so if I was wrong on that, I would not be too embarassed in public, in three months time, the second reference countered and I was then left with nothing for awhile.

In figuring out what the Bible actually means rather than what it seems to say, I had to calibrate ever word used, in all of my controlled experiements. I could not assume. Now, back to you.

1.) Global flooding is at least in the 15,000 to 30,000 BCE era, if it is even calibratable as it is vastly outside of recorded history, and the people who say otherwise are just making errors in their dating, and the same ones that I made intitially.

2.) I don't know anything about the transformation of anyone, by artifact, into a pillar of salt, and I imagine in all these years, it would have been disolved by now.

3.) I really expect the survivability of a man in a fish, is rather brief, roughly on the order of minutes, but. But, to use that alone, means you have to ignore the God part, by saying either that you know that God did not do that, or you know the circumstances of the type of fish, that actually did the deed. So, yes it is easily dismissable, but. But, only if it is taken out of context, and assumptions are thrown in.

4.) I essentially know nothing about genetics. Remember the calibration? I and all researchers can only look at items that they understand. I have to first understand completely, and by myself every item I look at, in advanced research. I did not look at genetic bottle necking and actually I didn't have to, with the results of the Controlled Experiments.

A note: If the Controlled Experiments, and the first one was to see if God was in back of the words Honor your father and your mother or not, did not in fact yeild the results that they did. I would have moved on to other areas of research. Pet research. I was not paid for this, per se.

LOVE,
 
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Xalith

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[serious]

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@ecco : I doubt that you would believe me, but....

I found someone who did the math and laid it out very carefully:

http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/Pi_File.htm <-----That's Genesis 1:1

http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/e_valuation.htm <-----That's John 1:1

All math shown.
It gets the first 5 digits of pi (well, off by 17 orders of magnitude) from arbitrary operations on assigned number values of letters. We've got a total of 7 operations being done to get there, and about 31,000 verses in the bible.

Odds of any random number matching the first 5 digits of pi: 1:100,000
Number of sequences of 7 basic math operations: 16384
Odds of any random verse matching pi for some set of 7 operations: 1:6.1
Number of verses in the bible expected to match first 5 digits of pi using some sequence of 7 operations: 5080

One of those 5080 happens to be a recognizable verse.

Any time you are doing that many arbitrary things to a set of numbers, you have to expect to eventually run into a coincidence.

EDIT: it actually reminds me of an essay by asimov where he looks at the speed of light in various units to try and get close to a round number. I think it was out of the collection edge of tomorrow, but I don't remember the title of the essay itself.
 
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Xalith

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It gets the first 5 digits of pi (well, off by 17 orders of magnitude) from arbitrary operations on assigned number values of letters. We've got a total of 7 operations being done to get there, and about 31,000 verses in the bible.

Odds of any random number matching the first 5 digits of pi: 1:100,000
Number of sequences of 7 basic math operations: 16384
Odds of any random verse matching pi for some set of 7 operations: 1:6.1
Number of verses in the bible expected to match first 5 digits of pi using some sequence of 7 operations: 5080

One of those 5080 happens to be a recognizable verse.

Any time you are doing that many arbitrary things to a set of numbers, you have to expect to eventually run into a coincidence.

EDIT: it actually reminds me of an essay by asimov where he looks at the speed of light in various units to try and get close to a round number. I think it was out of the collection edge of tomorrow, but I don't remember the title of the essay itself.

Well, let's see...

Both Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1 speak about the Creation.
The same equation is used on both verses.
Both produce two mathematical constants that would be later known, and are within three decimal places accuracy.
Both use an alphanumeric system which existed since at least 200 BC and was widely known.

This isn't just "if you cook it a million times you're bound to get something to stick on the wall" type thing. This is specific operations done to not one... but two verses which both produce something meaningful and accurate, by using the same method on both verses.

The chances of that happening by accident are ridiculously astronomical.
 
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AceHero

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Do try to do a little thinking:
Aliens who developed the technology to travel vast distances at near or exceeding light speed, need lines scratched in the dirt to help them land.
Really?


I'll not bother with the rest of your ancient aliens nonsense.

At this point we just need a sub-forum for conspiracy theories and obscure scientific beliefs.

Though I suppose that's already partially covered with the creationist forums we have...
 
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JacksBratt

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Yet, all you have done is talk about the proof, you haven't provided any. And don't just post a link and expect me to read a lengthy article. Explain it in your own words.

It's not an article to read. It's a documentary film. The proof is in the facts they discover along with many experts as they have input and give the data based on real evidence.
I cannot write it all down. It is a journey from your true point where there is no evidence to new insight into the search into a period 1000 years previous, where the puzzle has actual pieces that fit with other accepted history.

That's OK. But it's too bad that you won't look at new information. Ignoring truth does not change the fact that it exists.



You have misunderstood what I said. I said the OT was stories, passed down over generations. They may have been written down in a short period of time once writing was developed.

Once writing was developed? So humans lived for generations without written language? The Book of Job is one of the earliest written and when chronological order is considered. I guess they couldn't write back then?


I don't know and you haven't stated what is on the outskirts of Cusco. However, I am aware of the Nazca Lines.
Erich von Däniken posited they were like runway lines for ancient aliens to land their spacecraft.

Do try to do a little thinking:
Aliens who developed the technology to travel vast distances at near or exceeding light speed, need lines scratched in the dirt to help them land.
Really?


I'll not bother with the rest of your ancient aliens nonsense.

I said nothing of Aliens.I said there were things built that we are baffled by today. Actually my exact words were:

"They had knowledge, they lacked technology. There are structures from ancient times that we cannot figure out today."

Your response was "Name one". I named you a few and now you bring up aliens? I am saying that the ancients had knowledge that we don't AND therefore the human race has forgotten more than the remember.

Sure, we have HD TV and smart phones but cannot lift the stone of the pregnant woman at Baalbeck.....They could.

Maybe we are technologically advanced in electronics but bankrupt of raw know how while they had a wealth of knowledge and no electronics.
 
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lasthero

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ecco

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@ecco : I doubt that you would believe me, but....

I found someone who did the math and laid it out very carefully:

http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/Pi_File.htm <-----That's Genesis 1:1

http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/e_valuation.htm <-----That's John 1:1

All math shown.
Amazing indeed. Until you take into context what [serious] said.

However, I'll play along. In the Genesis example, what is the two-letter 4th word, the word with a value of 401?

Also, it looks like there are 7 words for god.

seven-Names.gif
 
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Well, let's see...

Both Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1 speak about the Creation.
The same equation is used on both verses.
Both produce two mathematical constants that would be later known, and are within three decimal places accuracy.
Both use an alphanumeric system which existed since at least 200 BC and was widely known.

This isn't just "if you cook it a million times you're bound to get something to stick on the wall" type thing. This is specific operations done to not one... but two verses which both produce something meaningful and accurate, by using the same method on both verses.

The chances of that happening by accident are ridiculously astronomical.
The second only gets 4 digits of e. That takes us from 1 in 100,000 to 1 in 10,000. Since there are 31,000 verses, we would expect to find a couple of verses that match 4 digits. in fact, for any arbitrary number you could expect to find a verse that would hit the first 4 digits.
 
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'As we treat the least of our brothers...' RIP GA
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Sure, we have HD TV and smart phones but cannot lift the stone of the pregnant woman at Baalbeck.....They could.
Googled the specs on the stone.
  • 20.31–20.76 m long
  • 4 m wide at the base
  • 4.14–5.29 m wide at the top
  • 4.21–4.32 m high
  • Has an estimated density of 2.6–2.8 g/cm³
That would give us a rough weight of around 1000 tons. It would take a big crane, but is well within the tolerances of even the larger mobile cranes.

EDIT: also, since it's still in the quarry, why do you think it was successfully moved?
 
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Xalith

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Amazing indeed. Until you take into context what [serious] said.

Again, you're missing the point that two mathematical constants are found in two verses that speak about the same thing (the Creation) while using the exact same formula. So your 1:10,000 is actually 1 in 10,000 inside of 10,000 of both verses doing this to those two specific numbers. Probably even higher than that, actually.

However, I'll play along. In the Genesis example, what is the two-letter 4th word, the word with a value of 401?

Probably a particle that does not directly translate to English. Greek has a few too, from what I've seen. Particles such as "the", "a", etc are not present in every language. Some languages modify words, other languages add particles.

Also, it looks like there are 7 words for god.

seven-Names.gif

And your point is? We know what one was used in Genesis 1:1, we have the Hebrew Masoretic Texts. Why does it matter which one they used? IIRC, from what I read, each word, or phrase that they use for God is contextual, depending on which aspect of Him they are referring to, or who is referring to Him, whether or not someone's actually speaking to/about Him, or whether He is being mentioned in a narrative, or if He is referring to Himself.

I don't see where that has anything at all to do with Genesis 1:1 and Pi.

EDIT: In fact, you point out an interesting point that the number 7 is a very special number to God, because everything (well, not everything, but a LOT of things) end up being 7. 7 of this, 7 of that, etc. 7 Names that are used for God, a lot of ELS codes in the Bible use 7 or 49 (7x7), 7 lampstands, 7 churches, 7-sealed scroll, 7 trumpets, etc etc etc. Lots of 7s. Someone clearly loves the number 7 and it is persistent throughout the entire Bible, despite the fact it was written by like 40 different people over the period of 3,000 or so years.
 
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Again, you're missing the point that two mathematical constants are found in two verses that speak about the same thing (the Creation) while using the exact same formula. So your 1:10,000 is actually 1 in 10,000 inside of 10,000 of both verses doing this to those two specific numbers. Probably even higher than that, actually.
Thats not how probability works. You only multiply like that if both are being applied to the single instance, which doesn't make sense here because any instance that happens to be close to pi necessarily is not close to e.

Instead, you calculate the odds of 1 occurring in the whole set, then if the other occurring in the whole set, then multiply those two probabilities.

In this case, as I mentioned in the first post, the odds of some set of operation so generating 5 specific numbers ends up being about 1 in 6. Over 31,000 verses, there is pretty much guaranteed to be a hit there. The probability approaches 1. That means the odds will be effectively entirely determined by our second requirement, the same operations getting 4 digits of e.

Now only at that point need we lock in the specific set of operations. So now we can factor that in. Now we match 4 numbers, which we likewise expect to happen. Sure, each individual verse only has a 1 in 10000 chance of being a hit, but over 31000 verses, the odds os at least one of them being a hit is 95%

So the odds of some sequence of 7 operations matching 5 digits of pi for some verse, and the same sequence matching 4 digits of e ends up being about 95%

We could go further and estimate that 4 digits of the file structure constant appear somewhere in there too (91% chancewith that additional requirement.) Drop in another constantto 4 digits, say proton electron mass ratio, and you still have an 87% chance of hitting everything. By the time you would actually expect to miss one, you would be in the deep tracks of physical constants.
 
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JacksBratt

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