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Hi,
Although I am not prepared to give a lecture on this at this time, and I do not know your background, so I really don't know where to start to not bore you to tears in the process, I will start as though, you are not in the Spirit, a trade term and esoteric, ...
How do you know what was said by god as recorded in Genesis?1.) Biblically the Bible is real, but one has to know what is actually said and meant by God.
and also as though you are not that familiar with how to make sense out of the Bible, yet.
Though it's always wise to be specific with people who deny the science on a topic that was settled thousands of years ago.
They'll probably say it's just a flat disk a few thousand miles away.
katerinah1947↑
Yet, the Bible does not say to not do science. Rather the Bible commands us to do science.ecco:
Where?katerinah1947↑
His, position is not what a bunch of goat herders believed 3500 years ago. It is not.ecco
Show the difference
I am an atheist. I believe the OT was written over 3500 years ago based on stories that were handed down from generation to generation for thousands of years before that. In that regard it is just a creation story and is no different from any of thousands of other creation stories.
How do you know what was said by god as recorded in Genesis?
The sense you, a christian, make out of the bible and the sense that JacksBratt and Morse86 , both also christians, make out of the bible is very different.
The difference is not in what is written in the bible.
The difference is in the way each of you interpret what is written in the bible.
You believe some of it allegory.
They believe most (all?) of it is literal.
People can believe in science only up to the point it conflicts their religious beliefs.
The sense you, a christian, make out of the bible and the sense the JacksBratt and Morse86, both also christians, make out of the bible is very different.
People can believe in science only up to the point it conflicts their relgious beliefs.
They do not build airplanes they buy them from us. They have money because they have raw resources to sell the developed nations.
The pilots do not fly over the poles and they avoid to fly over the ocean if they can.
But oceans are scary for huge jetliners. Unless, of course its the Pacific, it's warm in that water.From here to Hong Kong is 17 hours. It could be 4 or 5 hours less if they took a more direct route.
"please take your seats as we head for Hong Kong. If we have an emergency we will detour all the way to Alaska. It will only tale us 4 or 5 hours of time fuel and engine hours but who's in a hurry"?Last time my wife flew to Asia they landed in Anchorage Alaska for some sort of a medical emergency.
Again with all this trust in the aircraft. Maybe they should build them in Brazil. Isn't air travell much safer than highways and trains?The next major city would have been Beijing then Hong Kong. If they were to get in trouble over the North Pole there really is not even anyone that would rescue them.
The countries fight over the Oil deposits but no one is eager to provide rescue services for anyone up there. If Russia knew how much oil there was in Alaska, I am sure they would not have sold it to us as cheap as they did.
You believe what a bunch of goat herders believed 3500 years ago, rather than what mankind has discovered over the intervening years.
Moses was trained by the Egyptian elite. King David was also educated and his son, Solomon, was the wisest man who will ever lived. Mark was a doctor. Goat herders.... LOL
Again "If they don't like the data....attack the source and discredit it."
They are valid.Hi, (Oops!. Some small edits now.) (Done now)
It seems to me these are your most important(s) point(s) above, if it(they) is(are) not, let me know please:
The science one is adressible easily, for me. Science cannot and is not and has not ever been in conflict with anything Biblical, other than (some people) extending the Bible into realms that it is not capable of being extended into like Calculus, or double or triple integrations; Rather science, which is Commanded in Genesis 1:28 to do, is a duty which is upon all Christians to do and follow.
Some think they do.Lots of people are Chrisitians. Almost no Christian has all of it correct or knows it all.
I never asked that. If you are going to misquote me or try to put words into my mouth, we are not going to get far.So, when you ask like here, if a Christian is a Christian,
I don't need to ask that question, because if I ask 10 christians I will get ten different answers.and then assume that they are in full understanding of God, and the Bible then you most probably will not be able to figure out, what the full extent of Christianity is, nor will you find out what it is from a single person.
I see your point. Now try to convince everyone in this thread that a spherical earth does not conflict with Genesis.Lots of people are Scientists. Almost no Scientist knows it all or has it all correct either.
Do you see the point, I am trying to show you? I know for instance Genesis 1:28 and what it means to a scientist like me, and also what it means to Christians. I do not know everything in The Bible. I only know somethings.
If you had done any research you wouldn't use the phrase "so called". I wouldn't refer to your views, nor the views of any christian, as "so called christian" views.With your so called atheistic views, which I have done reserch on, and have the results of,
You have tried to show some christians in this thread that some of their beliefs are wrong.I don't know how you could ask any Christian anything, without trying to show them how all of it is wrong.
There are some theologians who try to reconcile sciences like evolution with scripture.And your last point. Science is not a believe, it is what is. I would say that any Christian who has to believe in science to discuss it, is in fact doing a dis service to Christians everywhere, as their comprehensions are so low, that they then think the issue is a fight. It is the scientists, all commanded by God to do that work in one way or another, and the theologians, who are now fighting to see, who, is, telling, the, truth. But it looks more like a fight that what it should be, Theologians are primarily Philosophy majors, and not scientists.
In my life, never have I been able to handle the ideas of philosophers, many of whom are wrong, with the proven ideas of engineering, or advanced science, and presenting them an idea that is scientific is like presenting them with an anethema. Now, that is my experience.
Another experience I have, is I actually came to and learned about God, from Science, but, there are few of us, and the Theologians do not normally talk to us, even when they make major mistakes because of it.
Well, not to be picky but the point I was arguing was a claim that the Bible was written by goat herders.Not to discredit or disagree with you, but Wisdom != Intelligence and Intelligence != Wisdom.
You can have someone with an absurdly high IQ who makes absolutely stupid decisions in life, and you can have someone who makes wise choices that can't understand basic algebra.
Saying that Solomon was the wisest man who will ever live isn't saying he's the smartest person who will ever live. I'm not trying to discredit Solomon here, or downplay who he was, I just feel that the argument isn't really on solid ground, yaknow?
Especially since it has nothing to do with whether the Earth is a Globe or a Flat Disc.
For example, did you know that the values of Pi and E are found int he Bible? The Value of Pi is found twice and the value of E is found once; the two instances of Pi are found in the Old Testament and wasn't discovered until the Greeks.
Wow, people knew that the diameter of a circle was about 1/3 of it's circumference. Fantastic. A little piece of rope will tell you that.
E (the constant used in various mathematics) wasn't discovered until the 1700s, but yet it was written by John (unknowingly) in ~90AD and was discovered recently.
We're still finding stuff like this to this day, and each thing is yet another straw on the growing pile of hay so to speak of the evidence that the Bible was not written merely by men, but by something much higher. Yes, the books were penned by men, but they were inspired by One much higher. You're not going to tell me that a collection of 66 books written over a 2000-3000 year period that is integrated the way it is happened just by accident, lol.
When you have really good evidence that the Exodus took place, I might believe that Moses was real.Moses was trained by the Egyptian elite. King David was also educated and his son, Solomon, was the wisest man who will ever lived. Mark was a doctor. Goat herders.... LOL
Again "If they don't like the data....attack the source and discredit it."
Imagine what? What damage would that do to them?So, if the governments , out of the blue, said "folks we were wrong and the earth is flat". This wouldn't cause mass confusion, loss of trust, denial, questioning of government right to rule, govern, the educational systems, military integrity....
It would cause massive hysteria, disconnection and upset the civilized world.
So you're telling me that NASA, an agency in a country that's predominately Christian, wouldn't want to see the Bible supported?NASA, formed with the help of Nazi engineers, with the scrambled letters of SATAN (the "t" being a red forked tongue through the logo), made up of high level Masons.......Christian? I highly doubt that.
Wow, people knew that the diameter of a circle was about 1/3 of it's circumference. Fantastic. A little piece of rope will tell you that.
Which E are you referring to and where did John write about it?
They are valid.
What about flat vs. spherical earth? What about creation vs. evolution? Where do you draw the line between allegory and literal interpretation?
Some think they do.
I never asked that. If you are going to misquote me or try to put words into my mouth, we are not going to get far.
I don't need to ask that question, because if I ask 10 christians I will get ten different answers.
I see your point. Now try to convince everyone in this thread that a spherical earth does not conflict with Genesis.
If you had done any research you wouldn't use the phrase "so called". I wouldn't refer to your views, nor the views of any christian, as "so called christian" views.
You have tried to show some christians in this thread that some of their beliefs are wrong.
There are some theologians who try to reconcile sciences like evolution with scripture.
Again, it all depends on where the theologian draws the line between a literal interpretation and allegory. This is true for all people of all religions.
If you had done any research you wouldn't use the phrase "so called". I wouldn't refer to your views, nor the views of any christian, as "so called christian" views.
They are valid.
What about flat vs. spherical earth? What about creation vs. evolution? Where do you draw the line between allegory and literal interpretation?
Some think they do.
I never asked that. If you are going to misquote me or try to put words into my mouth, we are not going to get far.
I don't need to ask that question, because if I ask 10 christians I will get ten different answers.
I see your point. Now try to convince everyone in this thread that a spherical earth does not conflict with Genesis.
If you had done any research you wouldn't use the phrase "so called". I wouldn't refer to your views, nor the views of any christian, as "so called christian" views.
You have tried to show some christians in this thread that some of their beliefs are wrong.
There are some theologians who try to reconcile sciences like evolution with scripture.
Again, it all depends on where the theologian draws the line between a literal interpretation and allegory. This is true for all people of all religions.
When you have really good evidence that the Exodus took place, I might believe that Moses was real.
But, in any case, as I stated earlier, I believe the OT was written over 3500 years ago based on stories that were handed down from generation to generation for thousands of years before that. In that regard it is just a creation story and is no different from any of thousands of other creation stories.
Goat herders was not a derogatory term, it was a descriptive term. People living 3500 or 10,000 years ago did not have the knowledge we have today. They had no way of knowing the earth was a spheriod and that gravity is what held them to it.
What would be the purpose of hiding the truth about the earth's geometric shape in the first place?
It's one of Satan's biggest goals.......make God unnecessary or make Him a fairy tale.
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