Out with the ad hominem's I see. If you can't beat them, just call them names.
Yes and anyone can read my response to you in post #132 and read in context why you were called a fool.
If you had bothered to read Job carefully, you would know that Job also speaks as well as God. In addition, one could use Job's friends to show what beliefs are wrong. However, quoting a single passage of one of Job's friends out of context and with the intent of presenting it as the is either unwise or deceptive. This is what you did.
"If you had bothered to read Job carefully, you would know that Job also speaks as well as God."
- MartyF
Yes I did read the book...the first time I read it was around when I was seven...and it has been clear to me now as it has then that all the characters present in the story of Job spoke. Again you show more of your folly by actually believing that the whole point of Job's story was to show that they were wrong in every single point because their general premise was wrong about Job's condition. God reprimanded Job's three friends for not talking accurately about His nature, not about the nature of His creations. As for quoting things out of context, I would suggest you look at the beam in your own eye before trying to take the speck out of another's eye and then you'll see clearly.
That's not the logical conclusion. You either don't understand basic logic, are making an error, or are purposefully misusing it. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that David's psalms, Solomon's proverbs, or Ecclesiastes are incorrect. Job's friends are specifically mentioned as being wrong in the book of Job and by God no less. And there are parts where it is clear one should not follow David or Solomon actions.
Your general premise is that because Job's friends are wrong then everything they say or have said is wrong. Therefore if we apply that same logic to any character in the Bible who did a single wrong then everything they say or have said is wrong as that would invalidate a majority of the Bible. That is your logic but, you can't seem to understand how wrong that is by your response.
Yes, let's.
Hmm, except that when Job's friends spoke, they spoke about God. Did you read the book?
Job 22:12-14 NLT
“God is so great—higher than the heavens, higher than the farthest stars. [13] But you reply, ‘That’s why God can’t see what I am doing! How can he judge through the thick darkness? [14] For thick clouds swirl about him, and he cannot see us. He is way up there, walking on the vault of heaven.’
The passage you quoted is talking about God. Did you read it before you quoted it? So, yes, God said this is inaccurate.
Thank you for showing the rest of the viewers on this thread how much of a hypocrite you are and how you take things out of context. This passage is one of Job's friends trying to make the point to Job that no matter how much he (Job) thinks he can hide from God because He dwells in thick darkness and clouds cover Him round, he cannot. Where did God respond here and say this is wrong? God gives His reason for why Job's three friends are wrong at the end of the story: and His reason is that Job's three friends were wrong that God only afflicts and punishes sinners. And God is right in saying this as God clearly found no fault with Job when Satan tried to accuse Job of only following God because of all the blessings given to Him so, God allowed Satan to test Job. God did this because He knew Job was faithful to Him and would endure any trials he faced.
Not all "visions" are metaphors, although this is usually the case. For example, what happened to the city of Tyre was not a metaphor. However, you have to read the passage in context to understand whether what you are reading is metaphorical. Usually, if the surrounding passage is filled with metaphors and poetic language, then the passage is also likely metaphorical. Prose is less likely to be metaphorical than poetry.
Except the passages I quoted are not using metaphorical language. The word metaphor literally means 'to transfer'. That being said the passages describing the "corners of the earth" or the "four corners of the earth" are not being used to liken the earth to anything with four corners. When God is clearly using metaphorical language He follows up by giving the interpretation to the prophet He is speaking to. The passages I quoted are stating things as a matter of fact with no need to explain what they are saying as they assume the reader understands.
"
Usually, if the surrounding passage is filled with metaphors and poetic language, then the passage is also likely metaphorical. Prose is less likely to be metaphorical than poetry."
- MartyF
With this logic you turn the whole Word of God into a metaphor as it is surrounded with metaphor. And it sounds like you're confusing metaphor ('to transfer') with allegory ('speak of something else'). Because the way you have been reasoning is that when the
Bible says that the earth has four corners or has ends that it doesn't really mean that...it's actually talking about something other than what it's actually saying.
This is very important for me to correct. In metaphorical writings people commonly do this. I'll explain this after the next passage.
A straw man is arguing against a point which does not exist. So, no, that's not what I am doing. What my current world examples show is that the idiom of corners of the Earth does not mean the Earth is flat and rectangular in shape. It never has meant that. In addition, the original Hebrew doesn't mean corners in most of these cases. "Corners" is the idiom the translators chose to translate to. You're taking this idiom and are demanding that it means that there has to be a flat surface, when the idiom never meant that.
Ever realize how closely related idiots are to idioms? Now it sounds like you are confused and don't know when to use metaphor, figure, allegory, or idiom. An idiom is literally 'to appropriate to oneself'. Therefore an idiom is a phrase or expression which can't be understood by the ordinary meanings of the words in it. An example of an idiom is "Get off my back" which means "Stop bothering me" or "You hit the nail on the head" which means "You got it right". In
Revelation 20:8 the word used for
corner is the Greek
gonia {go-nee-ah} meaning, 'an angle', 'corner', 'secret place' which comes from
gonu {gon-oo} meaning, 'the knee': and
corner is a perfect translation for
gonia as the idea given is like when one's knee(s) are bent at an angle it forms a corner. In Isaiah 11:12 the Hebrew word for corner is KaNaPH {kaw-nawf} which means 'wing', 'extremity': and the word
corner is again a perfect translation of KaNaPH as the wing of a bird gives us the idea of it stretching out its wings to its tip (i.e. corner), hence the word also denotes extremity. The evidence is clear that the earth has corners and the writers are not using idioms, allegory, figures, or metaphors.
You even get more confusing. In one sentence, you argue that the idiom doesn't mean a flat surface, but in the next sentence you argue that in the Bible it does. Do you not see the dissonance in your own writing?
Educate yourself on idiom in the quote directly above this one. And once you have done that then Go reread my proofs in posts #62 and #132 of this thread.
I disagree with Lost4words that this is an interpretation problem. It's a reading comprehension problem or an outright stubbornness problem.
Yes and the problem lies with you confusing the following words:
(
The plain meaning)
literal from the Latin
littera 'letter', 'alphabetic sign'
(
Phrase or expression not understood by the plain meaning)
idiom from the Greek
idios 'to appropriate to oneself'
(
Compare the plain meaning to something else like it)
metaphor from the Greek
metaphora 'a transfer', 'to transfer'
(
Giving the plain meaning a shape)
figure from the Latin
figurare 'to form', 'shape'
allegory from the Greek
allegoria 'a speaking of something else'