Flag burning-free speech or not?

[Sammy-San]

This isnt really a controversial political issue that much these days compared to other topics-but its a legal issue people have different opinions on, so discussing it fits into the topic of politics.

In many countries, like in parts of Europe, its highly illegal-and free speech doesnt protect it.

The US Supreme Court has ruled flag burning is legal based on free speech-in a court case years ago. And I agree with them, despite the fact that I find flag burning highly offensive and disrespectful. But the fact that it personally offends me and I disapprove of it morally, doesnt mean it shouldnt be legal. I do believe it falls under free speech rights.

Anybody disagree?

 

[pgp_protector]

If I can't burn my Flags, how else am I to dispose of it?

 

[stamperben]

Burning a flag is no different than burning a bra or a book. They are only objects. I disagree with it, but it is a form of speech.

Well, maybe not bras...

 

[DaisyDay]

If I can't burn my Flags, how else am I to dispose of it?

Exactly. Since this is the proper method of disposing of a damaged flag, it is only the intent that would be illegal, not the act. So, free speech.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I am not a violent man, but go ahead. express your grief in burning the flag, and I will express my grief of you burning it by punching you square in the face. There is a proper way to brun the flag. I suggest you turn it into the boy scouts for disposal. They tend to know it and do it for free. it means a lot more to me, because I've sen it draped over my friends as they are buried.

 

[pgp_protector]

I am not a violent man, but go ahead. express your grief in burning the flag, and I will express my grief of you burning it by punching you square in the face. There is a proper way to brun the flag. I suggest you turn it into the boy scouts for disposal. They tend to know it and do it for free. it means a lot more to me, because I've sen it draped over my friends as they are buried.

So your reply to speech you don't like is to attack people?

 

[abysmul]

As long as you don't take and destroy a flag that does not belong to you... /shrug

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

So your reply to speech you don't like is to attack people?

Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences. I have friends that would literally shoot a person who burns a flag.

Edit: Let me further explain. Most veterans hold the american flag in high regards. Up to the same level I would compare a muslim to the koran. Burn the koran in from of a bunch of muslims all you want. Freedom of speech rings true, but don't be surprised if a rock hits you in the head.

 

[abysmul]

Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences. I have friends that would literally shoot a person who burns a flag.

You might consider getting new friends!

 

[Belk]

Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences. I have friends that would literally shoot a person who burns a flag.

Edit: Let me further explain. Most veterans hold the american flag in high regards. Up to the same level I would compare a muslim to the koran. Burn the koran in from of a bunch of muslims all you want. Freedom of speech rings true, but don't be surprised if a rock hits you in the head.

Most of us don't go around shooting people even if we hold the flag in high regard.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Most of us don't go around shooting people even if we hold the flag in high regard.

not all are violent. those who choose not to be violent.. literally weep over it being burned. You have no idea.

 

[abysmul]

not all are violent. those who choose not to be violent.. literally weep over it being burned. You have no idea.

I have an idea. I have a family full of veterans, living and dead. It's hard not to know veterans in our state (it seems). My 93 year old father is a WWII vet, so were some of his brothers, so is my 89 year old mother... they would not cry or shoot someone over a burning flag, they would probably shake their head and think the person was foolish, they even might be a bit hurt/insulted. I have never met a psychologically stable person that would desire to shoot someone over a flag burning.

 

[Farmer4Christ]

You might consider getting new friends!

Agreed -- that's pretty extreme lol.
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I believe burning the flag in protest ought to be allowed. Though I understand many hold the flag in high regard, the symbolism is less important than actually exercising those freedoms. However I believe that the ministry of Christ is more important than burning a symbol and potentially damaging the opportunity for those to know the love of Christ, but that is my personal decision and I don't hold anyone else to it.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I have an idea. I have a family full of veterans, living and dead. It's hard not to know veterans in our state (it seems). My 93 year old father is a WWII vet, so were some of his brothers, so is my 89 year old mother... they would not cry or shoot someone over a burning flag, they would probably shake their head and think the person was foolish, they even might be a bit hurt/insulted. I have never met a psychologically stable person that would desire to shoot someone over a flag burning.

We're a different generation. A different war.

Honestly, I'd probably do the same, I might threaten with violence though. The closer I grow to christ the more the violence slips away as a the wrong way to approach anything.

 

[Belk]

not all are violent. those who choose not to be violent.. literally weep over it being burned. You have no idea.

My grandfather and father both served in WWII. I am a combat veteran. I think I have a fairly good idea. I still find those who are violent in the wrong. Especially since burning a flag is the prescribed procedure for disposing of one. No symbol is worth more then a human life.

 

[stamperben]

I just want to add that for me the incorporation of the U.S. flag into clothing is much more offensive than it being burned.

 

[abysmul]

We're a different generation. A different war.

Honestly, I'd probably do the same, I might threaten with violence though. The closer I grow to christ the more the violence slips away as a the wrong way to approach anything.

I have personal friends or family who have served in basically all modern conflicts. I know not a single one (from the wounded Korean war vet, to those served and injured in Iraq/Afghanistan) that would react with violence to the burning of a flag. That is not a healthy mental reaction. It's not a flag issue, it is a mental health issue (which are serious and sadly under dealt with by our government, as our vets are owed more).

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I have personal friends or family who have served in basically all modern conflicts. I know not a single one (from the wounded Korean war vet, to those served and injured in Iraq/Afghanistan) that would react with violence to the burning of a flag. That is not a healthy mental reaction. It's not a flag issue, it is a mental health issue (which are serious and sadly under dealt with by our government, as our vets are owed more).

Welcome to the shoddy VA mental health system. A lot of guys are more broke in the head and heart then they are missing limbs. Most who are still in don't seek help in fear of the stigma attached. Some still hold onto the stigma of seeking help when they leave.

 

[SteveNZ]

Hi, firstly I am a kiwi (from New Zealand),
I see the burning of the flag (you USA folk respect the flag more than most-good on you) more than just offensive.

And more importantly it makes myself look on and say in my heart '...but the USA was so strong and yet they allow such evil-insult to be seen as OK....do they not love their country anymore....?'. Rotten folk will laugh at the USA.

How do you explain it to your children and grandchildren, who are taught the great cost of the freedom that the flag represents?

I see the action as no different in type of action to vandalising a military cemetery and crudely defacing grave stones for all to see for the world to see.

I feel that it is beyond being an acceptable way of expressing an opinion.
The party is not so much expressing freedom of speech but to vandalise and harm.

Let folk be free to share anger/frustration and talk about doing so, but do not allow it!

 

[voltran]

I just want to add that for me the incorporation of the U.S. flag into clothing is much more offensive than it being burned.

This is actually a good point, why would we be so up in arms about the destruction of a symbol but not its trivialization?